VIA Rail network developments

[Kitchissippi]

What I'd love to see in Montreal is a passenger railway tunnel built under René-Lévesque and have VIA and commuter trains pass through downtown to east tip of the island to Repentigny. Too bad they sold off the land at the junction and built houses on it. It would be so convenient having heavy rail run in between the two Metro lines in the core, with a possibility of having several commuter train stations like Paris' RER.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

What I'd love to see in Montreal is a passenger railway tunnel built under René-Lévesque and have VIA and commuter trains pass through downtown to east tip of the island to Repentigny. Too bad they sold off the land at the junction and built houses on it. It would be so convenient having heavy rail run in between the two Metro lines in the core, with a possibility of having several commuter train stations like Paris' RER.

If they ever do that, I demand that they re-connect to old Union Station via a tunnel under Nicholas. Bring back true downtown to downtown service!

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRenton

From what I could tell, that seemed to be the latest plan. That is also a blow to VIA. It is going to add another 15 minutes to the trip, versus going through the tunnel.

That is only assuming they continue to use Central Station. With a new station north of Mount Royal, it would actually save time as the approach into Central Station is very slow and windy.

[J.OT13]

Even with the current system in Montreal, once we receive the bi-directional trains, that will already be a huge improvement and save a solid 10 minutes.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That is only assuming they continue to use Central Station. With a new station north of Mount Royal, it would actually save time as the approach into Central Station is very slow and windy.

You would add time for trains coming from the south shore. This would include trains to Quebec City via Drummondville, the Ocean and Amtrak's Adironack along with potential trains from Vermont and Sherbrooke. There is not enough volume to support 2 intercity train stations in any Canadian city.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

You would add time for trains coming from the south shore. This would include trains to Quebec City via Drummondville, the Ocean and Amtrak's Adironack along with potential trains from Vermont and Sherbrooke. There is not enough volume to support 2 intercity train stations in any Canadian city.

Nobody is suggesting that a station in Mount Royal would replace the downtown station as Via’s main station in Montreal, are they? That would just be silly.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by phil235

Nobody is suggesting that a station in Mount Royal would replace the downtown station as Via’s main station in Montreal, are they? That would just be silly.

Good Day.

Maybe not before....
but now, as part-and-parcel of a fully organized, separated, uniquely VIA-owned-and-operated HFR system(possibly leading to HSR in the farther future) rail system..... yes !

As mentioned earlier, they are being salami-sliced away from operational access to Union station by GO RER, and from access to Central station by both EXO (formerly AMT) and now, big time, by CDPQ Infra's REM, who have "taken over" the MR tunnel, many kilometers of rail, and a third of Central station. And even RoW is being sliced away by other owners (CN, CP).
This is not to suggest that VIA will leave those stations soon, quickly, or easily,
but - in terms of not owning the rail, and not having unfettered access to the stations, which VIA does not own.....

An, if there is any good opportunity to even conceive, and conceptualize, their own and owned infrastructure, with cleaner route access into and out of a new station which has been selected as to location, size, and modern structure and conveniences, with full access to local high speed transit services......now is the time to do it, or forever hold their voice.
Especially since now is when they have (1) the negatives of being ousted from high demand RoW by CN and CP for increasing freight volumes and demand,
and (2) the positives of an increasing availability of low demand RoW being traded, abandoned, or sold, by CN, CP, and others.

The opportunity seems to be....NOW.

IMHO.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

You would add time for trains coming from the south shore. This would include trains to Quebec City via Drummondville, the Ocean and Amtrak's Adironack along with potential trains from Vermont and Sherbrooke.

It is hard to say what VIA would do if they did build a Canora Staton. It could be only for HFR but if they did decide to reroute other trains there, here are some options.

The Ocean could use use the North shore route to Sainte-Foy and cross to the south shore on the Quebec Bridge (which trains to Quebec City currently use). It would be more reliable and possibly even faster (with track upgrades) than the current route from Central Station.

Amtrak's Adironack was the last intercity train to use CPR's Windsor Station so they might want to go back to using the Saint-Laurent Railway Bridge as it would give them a straight shot to the new station. The current route to Central Station, via the Victoria Bridge, is not very direct.

For potential trains to Vermont and Sherbrooke, similar to the Adironack, the Saint-Laurent Railway Bridge is as good if not a better option than the Victoria Bridge.

I agree it is a bit more awkward for the south shore regional rail lines to Quebec City, but they could go to Farnham and then take the CMQ St-Guillaume Subdivision to Saint-Hyacinthe, and then continue as normal. Alternately, that could be the exception that still uses Central Station.

There is not enough volume to support 2 intercity train stations in any Canadian city.

I'm not sure I understand your point. It isn't as if rail stations are only used by intercity rail. If EXO and REM end up limiting VIA's access to Central Station, they won't have much choice other than build another station if they want to increase capacity. That doesn't mean VIA can't use Central Station for any of its trains. REM could provide fast, easy connections between the two stations (and to downtown for those who want to go there).

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRenton

I am not saying the agencies and planning has to be perfect. But what you see in Montreal is a far cry from the methodical and organized planning you see from Metrolinx or other transit agencies in Canada.

And that's why transit planning is better with the CDOQi. They optimize every aspect of a project. I can't fathom how you would ever think that Metrolinx is a good example... enough of the neverending studies and more construction.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

And that's why transit planning is better with the CDOQi. They optimize every aspect of a project. I can't fathom how you would ever think that Metrolinx is a good example... enough of the neverending studies and more construction.

I also jumped when I read the Metrolinx comment.

Extremely slow or stagnant system development for many many years, and is fare integration really better in the GTA? I think not.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I also jumped when I read the Metrolinx comment.

Extremely slow or stagnant system development for many many years, and is fare integration really better in the GTA? I think not.

Some people count studies as results. Metrolinx is probably leading the league in studies.

[acottawa]

Ministry of Coffee has opened in the train station. I hope it is a permanent thing (looks a little pop-up).

[phil235]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

Maybe not before....
but now, as part-and-parcel of a fully organized, separated, uniquely VIA-owned-and-operated HFR system(possibly leading to HSR in the farther future) rail system..... yes !

As mentioned earlier, they are being salami-sliced away from operational access to Union station by GO RER, and from access to Central station by both EXO (formerly AMT) and now, big time, by CDPQ Infra's REM, who have "taken over" the MR tunnel, many kilometers of rail, and a third of Central station. And even RoW is being sliced away by other owners (CN, CP).
This is not to suggest that VIA will leave those stations soon, quickly, or easily,
but - in terms of not owning the rail, and not having unfettered access to the stations, which VIA does not own.....

An, if there is any good opportunity to even conceive, and conceptualize, their own and owned infrastructure, with cleaner route access into and out of a new station which has been selected as to location, size, and modern structure and conveniences, with full access to local high speed transit services......now is the time to do it, or forever hold their voice.
Especially since now is when they have (1) the negatives of being ousted from high demand RoW by CN and CP for increasing freight volumes and demand,
and (2) the positives of an increasing availability of low demand RoW being traded, abandoned, or sold, by CN, CP, and others.

The opportunity seems to be....NOW.

IMHO.

I see the advantages, but wouldn’t that be a big step backwards for convenience? It looks a lot more like air travel if you need to head to a suburb to catch the train.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Ministry of Coffee has opened in the train station. I hope it is a permanent thing (looks a little pop-up).

A cafe that is actually open?

[Truenorth00]

Suburban main stations aren't all that bad. Depends on the connection to the core. VIA is decently popular to Ottawa and will get better after the Confederation Line. Because it's only 10-15 mins to the core by car or LRT.

[lrt's friend]

I would hate to see the loss of a downtown rail station in any city. That is where the most transit connectivity is availability. The trend is towards multi-modal stations. We see this at Union Station in Toronto and many American cities are now developing this kind of facility after many years of neglect. We may give a big thumbs up to Montreal's REM plans but Montreal is not nearly as advanced for serving the greater metro area as Toronto. GO is far better and more advanced than the equivalent in Montreal.

Ottawa may have seen some advantage from having a suburban station because of the availability of parking but the 1966 closure of Union Station was a big loss to the city. At first, there was no public transit to the Tremblay Road station and it has taken us more than 50 years to build that fast rail link to downtown. In the long run, Ottawa would have benefited from having both a downtown and suburban stations. Ridership gains would have almost certainly been higher and commuter services would have been a more viable possibility.

[acottawa]

Downtown stations are great, but only if they can be served in a reasonably effective way. If they have to spend a considerable amount of time taking a circuitous route into the city centre at a snail’s pace then there is little point. Plus it is worth noting that many stations we consider “downtown” were not built that way but eventually attracted development around them.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Downtown stations are great, but only if they can be served in a reasonably effective way. If they have to spend a considerable amount of time taking a circuitous route into the city centre at a snail’s pace then there is little point. Plus it is worth noting that many stations we consider “downtown” were not built that way but eventually attracted development around them.

With new bi-directional trains, that will no longer be an issue. A new tunnel to Union however, would need to be doubled tracked, at the very least. More if ever we wanted to leave room for commuter rail.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

With new bi-directional trains, that will no longer be an issue. A new tunnel to Union however, would need to be doubled tracked, at the very least. More if ever we wanted to leave room for commuter rail.

It is still an issue, trains have to waste their time getting off the mainline track and in and out of the downtown station.

In Ottawa it would be an atrocious waste of money, offering zero benefit unless you’re staying at two specific hotels.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

With new bi-directional trains, that will no longer be an issue. A new tunnel to Union however, would need to be doubled tracked, at the very least. More if ever we wanted to leave room for commuter rail.

It really depends what city we are talking about.

We were talking about Montreal, so for there, while there will be many benefits to bi-directional trains, it doesn't change the fact that the trains have to slow way down somewhere near the Décarie for all of the twists and turns it needs to make to get to Central Station. A new station would likely have a straighter approach, allowing the train to just gradually come to a stop. This could easily save 10 minutes, if not more, which is not insignificant on a shorter trip (like to Ottawa).


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If we are talking about Ottawa, as acottawa said, it is a detour from the current route. The route could be made relatively straight, so it wouldn't need to slow down nearly as much though, but I don't see it being worth the investment until Ottawa is ready for commuter rail. Even then, VIA may not choose to use the station unless they own it (or have some other insurance of long term access) and are in control of their own destiny.