Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[DTcrawler]

To add my own observations to the mix, reading online and hearing from friends/family who don't follow aviation - most seem to direct their frustrations at YOW rather than particular airlines when it comes to the lack of direct route offerings, especially during conversations around using YUL/YYZ as alternatives. Of course in reality, YOW, the airlines, tourism orgs and local gov are all part of the equation in securing new routes.

Certainly when it comes to the service quality offered by airlines, rather than route offerings, the phrase "AC is trash" usually isn't met with much opposition. It bodes well for PD that most casual observers still see them as a more refined, boutique travel option with better service (vaguely similar to WS in the 2000s). As PD scale their operations, it will be up to them to uphold that reputation as much as possible with more visibility towards their brand just through sheer volume.

Most people I speak to seem adamant that they'd choose PD over AC on a particular route given other factors being near equal. Those who show loyalty to AC only do so for status reasons, whereas PD seem to have a niche group of supporters who simply appreciate the brand (and of course the avgeeks who are bullish about YOW's growth).

Personally, I have an Aeroplan Visa but still forego options on AC in favour of PD and AF purely due to biases, at the expense of my finances. A co-branded PD credit card would be a game changer for me and I suspect the same would be the case for many Ottawans loyal to AC for no other reason than points and status.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I think it's because for people who don't know much about the industry, they at least knew Porter is still early in their growth stages yet PD is already matching and soon to exceed (if not already) AC's offerings. So yes they are assuming those will be added. They also compare us to YUL or YYZ and how much they have (like I said, I had to mention what a hub and spoke were). So it just makes me wonder how many more everyday folks have this perception.

Totally fair and especially for Florida, they are the most frequent which makes them more attractive to AC, which is important on primarily leisure travel.

Separate note, a Rapidair turn was upgauged to a 333.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Absolutely. Not disagreeing with you in the slightest. However, I tend to wonder how the general public looks at this. My social circle (and other's I've spoken to) who don't know much about aviation constantly say "We can't go anywhere with AC" or "Porter and AF think we're important, I'm giving up Aeroplan", then I have to precede to educate them what a hub is, what a spoke is, and why there are resource limitations even though I dislike AC due to the lack of importance they've shown YOW. There is no competition to London in YOW yet places like YYC where competition exists still has an AC 789 crossing the Atlantic heading to LHR, so I can't really blame them. Then I wonder, how many more folks in Ottawa think this way.

When AF first started, I heard a lot of opposition from self-proclaimed experts that it wouldn't survive and YOW can't sustain something like this. Look where we are today. Have they plateaued on capacity increases? Maybe or maybe not, we'll see within 12 months from now. London has high O&D demand, now bring in accessibility to the rest of their network in LHR and I don't see how it won't be profitable for BA (premium heavy frames included, regardless of their Canadian network position, and regardless of AF's presence). Again, TS would be a great alternative and can be sustained with PD's feed in both directions.

The big reason why Air Canada still has Calgary YYC - London Heathrow LHR flights on Boeing 787-9 is to compete with WestJet to London UK /Europe & plus AC has strong demand with passengers heading to India/ Middle East out of YYC that fly AC to LHR & onwards to their final destinations. Starting end of October 2024, Delhi (DEL) India is added on to AC 850/851 flights✈️ that will be doing YYC - LHR- DEL- LHR- YYC, on the same plane.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

To add my own observations to the mix, reading online and hearing from friends/family who don't follow aviation - most seem to direct their frustrations at YOW rather than particular airlines when it comes to the lack of direct route offerings, especially during conversations around using YUL/YYZ as alternatives. Of course in reality, YOW, the airlines, tourism orgs and local gov are all part of the equation in securing new routes.

Certainly when it comes to the service quality offered by airlines, rather than route offerings, the phrase "AC is trash" usually isn't met with much opposition. It bodes well for PD that most casual observers still see them as a more refined, boutique travel option with better service (vaguely similar to WS in the 2000s). As PD scale their operations, it will be up to them to uphold that reputation as much as possible with more visibility towards their brand just through sheer volume.

Most people I speak to seem adamant that they'd choose PD over AC on a particular route given other factors being near equal. Those who show loyalty to AC only do so for status reasons, whereas PD seem to have a niche group of supporters who simply appreciate the brand (and of course the avgeeks who are bullish about YOW's growth).

Personally, I have an Aeroplan Visa but still forego options on AC in favour of PD and AF purely due to biases, at the expense of my finances. A co-branded PD credit card would be a game changer for me and I suspect the same would be the case for many Ottawans loyal to AC for no other reason than points and status.

There is an AF card available. I don't really see the connection though. Pooling the points or do you pay a huge annual fee for the extra checked bag perk? Air Canada is so uncompetitive on price and routes from Ottawa that being loyal to them to get status on your business flights really makes no sense to me. I guess if you are doing a lot of economy flights to a variety of destinations it makes sense to get status but if you are flying business class there is no incentive anymore to do it on Air Canada so you can enjoy the perks on your vacations.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

There is an AF card available. I don't really see the connection though. Pooling the points or do you pay a huge annual fee for the extra checked bag perk? Air Canada is so uncompetitive on price and routes from Ottawa that being loyal to them to get status on your business flights really makes no sense to me. I guess if you are doing a lot of economy flights to a variety of destinations it makes sense to get status but if you are flying business class there is no incentive anymore to do it on Air Canada so you can enjoy the perks on your vacations.

I have the Brim AF card as well, but I do much more domestic/TB travel than TATL meaning the my AC card (or a theoretical PD card) holds much more potential utility for me. When I got my card from TD a few years back I opted for the Visa Infinite card (which comparatively has a much more reasonable annual fee than the VIP card) as the LHR/FRA routes had been suspended and I wasn't sure how much flying I'd be doing with them, which turned out to be the right call in hindsight.

Right now the value I get out of my card still outweighs the annual fee even if I'm not flying AC, via travel perks (insurance, etc.) and other redemption options for Aeroplan points (hotels, electronics, etc.) even if it's probably not the best points-to-$ redemption value.

But yeah, in essence the value proposition is greatly diminished with AC if you're an Ottawa resident which is why I'm eager for PD to fill that void especially with the opportunity presented with their TS partnership.

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 84

Today's cancellation count (so far): 3

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

To add my own observations to the mix, reading online and hearing from friends/family who don't follow aviation - most seem to direct their frustrations at YOW rather than particular airlines when it comes to the lack of direct route offerings, especially during conversations around using YUL/YYZ as alternatives. Of course in reality, YOW, the airlines, tourism orgs and local gov are all part of the equation in securing new routes.

Certainly when it comes to the service quality offered by airlines, rather than route offerings, the phrase "AC is trash" usually isn't met with much opposition. It bodes well for PD that most casual observers still see them as a more refined, boutique travel option with better service (vaguely similar to WS in the 2000s). As PD scale their operations, it will be up to them to uphold that reputation as much as possible with more visibility towards their brand just through sheer volume.

Most people I speak to seem adamant that they'd choose PD over AC on a particular route given other factors being near equal. Those who show loyalty to AC only do so for status reasons, whereas PD seem to have a niche group of supporters who simply appreciate the brand (and of course the avgeeks who are bullish about YOW's growth).

Personally, I have an Aeroplan Visa but still forego options on AC in favour of PD and AF purely due to biases, at the expense of my finances. A co-branded PD credit card would be a game changer for me and I suspect the same would be the case for many Ottawans loyal to AC for no other reason than points and status.

Anecdotes are one thing, but Aeroplan is getting stronger by all stats. It has added 3 million monthly users in the last 5 years in Canada and growth has been in every major city in the country - that includes Ottawa. (The people who use Aeroplan at least once a month has gone from 5 Million to 8 Million inside Canada). As people think they are getting value they tend to be loyal - Air Canada doesn't have an issue filling planes from anywhere in this country, combined with aeroplan they know a big number of people will take a worse route to stay with them. That is sadly the truth of airline industries.

The one thing Aeroplan/Air Canada has done well is make it very easy for people to get loored into the program. Big sign up offers, expanded partner airlines and much easier to earn extra on stuff many people do anyway (LCBO, Uber, Starbucks etc).

The number of credit cards for Aeroplan has also surged. It makes it hard for anyone to step in since our country has a massive love affair with Aerolplan.

[caetura]

It is nice to see some European destinations bookable through Porter (1 stops with the AirTransat partnership). Here’s hoping Porter can get a decent TPAC partner.. then many of us in Ottawa would have less reasons to stay loyal to AP/AC.

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 85

Today's cancellation count (so far): 4 - two of the four are AC YYZ replacement flight #s, but in one case even the replacement flight was cancelled

[phil235]

Anecdotal, but I took Porter return to Los Angeles last week. Lots of people connecting through from Ottawa. Very smooth - connections through Terminal 3 at Pearson are way easier than the connections on AC in Terminal 1. Almost a pleasant experience. All flights were essentially full, which I hope bodes well for Porter’s expansion.

[RomanR27]

AF has re-added some capacity in November. Back up to 5x weekly from 4x weekly from October 27-November 23. Weeks of November 24 and December 1 still have 4x weekly.

I wonder what happened to people who were originally booked on those Wednesday flights when the schedule was loaded as daily, before they were cut and now re-added again.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

AF has re-added some capacity in November. Back up to 5x weekly from 4x weekly from October 27-November 23. Weeks of November 24 and December 1 still have 4x weekly.

I wonder what happened to people who were originally booked on those Wednesday flights when the schedule was loaded as daily, before they were cut and now re-added again.

Good to hear. That means for much of the fall capacity will be up a bit vs last fall.

Today's departure count: 73

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

I believe that’s the highest post-March 2020 departure count on a Saturday.

Not counted, there’s also a WG ferry flight to YEG. Maybe it’s not an actual ferry but taking the Redblacks to Edmonton?

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Good to hear. That means for much of the fall capacity will be up a bit vs last fall.

Today's departure count: 73

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

I believe that’s the highest post-March 2020 departure count on a Saturday.

Not counted, there’s also a WG ferry flight to YEG. Maybe it’s not an actual ferry but taking the Redblacks to Edmonton?

Guessing that's the Redblacks charter. Was hoping it would be Chrono, was going to try and catch that.

[MountainView]

I was on AC466 last night. After a brutally long taxi to the runway at YYZ... We lined up to takeoff and then vacated the runway. Apparently air traffic was too busy so they put out a ground stop. We had to go back to the gate to refuel. Delayed 2 hours.
Why am I bringing this up... Well about 12 people missed their YVR connection through YOW and 2 people missed their YUL connection (which I thought was a weird routing). There were some YYC connectors, but 466 turned to 357 so they were unaffected.
Interesting that AC routes people with a connection from the center of the universe (YYZ), when numerous non-stops exist.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by MountainView

I was on AC466 last night. After a brutally long taxi to the runway at YYZ... We lined up to takeoff and then vacated the runway. Apparently air traffic was too busy so they put out a ground stop. We had to go back to the gate to refuel. Delayed 2 hours.
Why am I bringing this up... Well about 12 people missed their YVR connection through YOW and 2 people missed their YUL connection (which I thought was a weird routing). There were some YYC connectors, but 466 turned to 357 so they were unaffected.
Interesting that AC routes people with a connection from the center of the universe (YYZ), when numerous non-stops exist.

Assuming that YVR missed connection was AC347? Might be a price thing, it's usually the cheapest YVR flight of the day tied with the 6am WS departure. Maybe connecting through YOW is much cheaper than a direct from YYZ?

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by phil235

Anecdotal, but I took Porter return to Los Angeles last week. Lots of people connecting through from Ottawa. Very smooth - connections through Terminal 3 at Pearson are way easier than the connections on AC in Terminal 1. Almost a pleasant experience. All flights were essentially full, which I hope bodes well for Porter’s expansion.

YOW-LAX/SFO when they happen are going to be popular, I can feel it. They are already 2 of the top 10 unserved TB routes from Canada and that data does not take into consideration the pax that drive to YUL. Couple that with stimulating demand because they will be direct and the rest is history.

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 83

Today's cancellation count (so far): 2

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

YOW-LAX/SFO when they happen are going to be popular, I can feel it. They are already 2 of the top 10 unserved TB routes from Canada and that data does not take into consideration the pax that drive to YUL. Couple that with stimulating demand because they will be direct and the rest is history.

The demand will be there. They will be really popular routes so I can't wait to see them come. I think Ottawa can definitely sustain those, and another 1-2 international routes on top of Paris. People prefer direct options.

[acottawa]

There was a YOW-SJC flight maybe 20 years ago. Not sure how long it lasted.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by acottawa

There was a YOW-SJC flight maybe 20 years ago. Not sure how long it lasted.

About 6 months. The tech bust did it in as did the fact AC deliberately chose SJC over SFO because they clearly didn't want to funnel a bunch of their transpac connections to go to UA at SFO.

Today's departure count: 84

Today's cancellation count (so far): 2 - both of which are AC YYZ replacement flight #s