Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3 - Page 53

HomeInMyShoes · #1 Posted **Jan 22, 2018, 9:48 PM**

^Sure, FIFA rankings are quite volatile really. I tend to look at the ranking, but also at the last year and a half of results of which Canada has been not very good. But, we have been somewhat competitive in the group of countries I listed that we actually have to beat when it comes to qualifying. I'd give us a 40% chance to advance against that group right now. Given the expectations that Soccer Canada has tossed out the lasst few years I would expect a bit of a jump in our play over the next two years. It's almost been long enough to start to see some consistent results on that front.

Would Canada be a mockery at a World Cup right now. Yep, I'd say yes. But there would be other countries in that boat too given the change from 32 to 48 teams.

osmo · #2 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 1:07 AM**

I am not sure how this Frankenstein expanded FIFA WC survives past runs. You will need cross border bids and not many groups of nations can tackle it.

This announcement by Toronto is a non-story. Very slim odds Toronto does not host at least one game. BMO Field is not up to standard but there is money and space to make it happen. Tory is all in board when it's other people's money of course (all levels of Government are paying).

JHikka · #3 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 2:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

I am not sure how this Frankenstein expanded FIFA WC survives past runs. You will need cross border bids and not many groups of nations can tackle it.

That's probably the point. Main FIFA countries and potential shared bids...2030 is almost assuredly Uruguay/Argentina/Paraguay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

This announcement by Toronto is a non-story. Very slim odds Toronto does not host at least one game. BMO Field is not up to standard but there is money and space to make it happen. Tory is all in board when it's other people's money of course (all levels of Government are paying).

Agreed. Tory's announcement today changes literally nothing one way or the other. Toronto is likely the only sure thing in Canada's 2026 United Bid proposal and BMO can easily be brought up to requirements.

elly63 · #4 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 3:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

BMO can easily be brought up to requirements.

Doesn't look like any real upgrades to BMO aside from what may or may not be temporary seating.

That investment is estimated to be between $30 to $45 million, but none of that money will go toward a new stadium.

“We’re not going to build a new stadium, we’re going to put additional seating in BMO Field,” Tory said.

BMO Field has added extra seats before, for events such as the Grey Cup and the NHL Centennial Classic, which expands capacity to just more than 40,000. That capacity is dwarfed by many stadiums in other Canadian cities hoping to host games, like BC Place in Vancouver, Olympic Stadium in Montreal and Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton.

The Rogers Centre, which has about 10,000 more seats than an expanded BMO Field, would not be used if Toronto won its bid.

However, Tory is in favour of more soccer fields being built in the city.

“We are still quite short of really high quality soccer pitches in the GTA generally, not just in Toronto,” he said.

“In order to put on the World Cup, you need not just a place for the games but you need practice facilities for the teams, and I’m very hopeful this will stimulate, on a private-public partnership basis, the construction of additional facilities.”

JHikka · #5 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 1:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Doesn't look like any real upgrades to BMO aside from what may or may not be temporary seating.

“We’re not going to build a new stadium, we’re going to put additional seating in BMO Field,” Tory said.

Temporary seating is fine. BMO has been large enough in the past and can easily be large enough in the future for WC. I've no idea why people think it's unsuitable. Anyone expecting BMO to be permanently expanded to something like 50K for 2026 are kidding themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Toronto's a strange case. They're the closest thing to a guarantee for a host city in Canada, but they arguably have the worst-fit stadium out of all the candidates left, and definitely the smallest. I assume BMO would be the smallest World cup stadium in the bid if it made it?

Yes, which again is fine and isn't the end of the world. BMO shouldnt be comparing itself to mega large NFL/NCAA stadiums. The current state of soccer specific stadiums in the US has a long way to go but it would have been nice to see Orlando's stadium considered as a similar example to BMO. Most US soccer stadiums aren't designed to be temporarily expanded like BMO.

The most important thing is that Rogers Centre won't be used.

EpicPonyTime · #6 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 4:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Yes, which again is fine and isn't the end of the world. BMO shouldnt be comparing itself to mega large NFL/NCAA stadiums. The current state of soccer specific stadiums in the US has a long way to go but it would have been nice to see Orlando's stadium considered as a similar example to BMO. Most US soccer stadiums aren't designed to be temporarily expanded like BMO.

The most important thing is that Rogers Centre won't be used.

Wasn't even thinking about NFL/NCAA stadiums with regards to my comment (BMO is smaller than NCAA stadiums, but I'd say it's nicer because it has more amenities). I was thinking specifically in regards to the other three Canadian stadiums. BC and Commonwealth are superior stadiums, and if Olympic gets renovated like some claim it will, I would argue it'd be nicer as well.

EpicPonyTime · #7 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 2:19 AM**

Toronto's a strange case. They're the closest thing to a guarantee for a host city in Canada, but they arguably have the worst-fit stadium out of all the candidates left, and definitely the smallest. I assume BMO would be the smallest World cup stadium in the bid if it made it?

FrankieFlowerpot · #8 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 1:40 PM**

40,000 at BMO looks like this

ggopher · #9 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 8:05 PM**

Related to the World Cup Stadium debate. For the 2026 Winter Olympics bid in Calgary, the IOC has made it clear that they want to make the games more affordable. One of the key changes was removing the minimum requirement for spectator seats in a venue.

Now with TV revenue making up the majority of the funding, there is no need to build these white elephants that can never be reused. Hopefully FIFA follows suit, but I have my doubts.

Coldrsx · #10 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 10:20 PM**

Edmonton to continue FIFA 2026 bid process
January 23, 2018

Edmonton has committed to continue in the hunt for the 2026 FIFA World Cup. Council decided today to support Edmonton continuing as a candidate host city for the United Bid, a unique tri-country bid that brings together Canada, USA and Mexico.

“Being part of one of the world’s biggest sporting events is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Edmonton and we now need the provincial and federal governments to commit to the bid,” said Mayor Don Iveson. “A bid that unites three countries has never been tried at this level of international sport and it’s exciting for Edmonton to be part of that effort.”

The United Bid brings together North America in a unique partnership that will redefine the way global events can be held and focuses on building the game - not stadiums. The City will continue to work with Canada Soccer, the other Canadian candidate host cities, and provincial and federal governments, to further advance the bid. Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal are the other Canadian cities in the bid that currently features 31 cities.

The FIFA World Cup offers considerable legacy opportunities for Edmonton including $170 million (U.S.) in economic activity, an enhanced international reputation and significant community benefits that will continue to be developed as the city moves through the bid process, ensuring that benefits to Edmonton are maximized.

Based on the preliminary information provided by Canada Soccer, the estimated cost for a host city ranges between $35 million to $55 million, which includes a month-long fan festival, transportation and traffic management, marketing and communications, and staff to liaise with FIFA. Limited security costs would also be included, however, the four Canadian cities are seeking support from the federal government for the bulk of security.

The City of Edmonton will sign and submit the necessary hosting documents, conditional on federal and provincial support being secured, prior to the United Bid Committee (UBC) submitting its bid to FIFA on March 16, 2018. In June, FIFA Congress will decide if the UBC is successful. Morocco is the other lone competitor for the World Cup.

Media contact:
Amy Wolski
Brand Advisor
Corporate Positioning
780-465-0654

J.OT13 · #11 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 10:35 PM**

An Ottawa forumer found a great article about the trend of building major league stadiums and arenas in a central locations surrounded by mixed use developments. It also cautions about public funding for sports venues and the heartlessness of sports leagues and their billionaire owners (mostly NFL).

Quote:

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Welcome to the Neighborhood: America's Sports Stadiums Are Moving Downtown
The New York Times, By KEITH SCHNEIDERJAN. 19, 2018
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/b...velopment.html

JHikka · #12 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 11:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

An Ottawa forumer found a great article about the trend of building major league stadiums and arenas in a central locations surrounded by mixed use developments. It also cautions about public funding for sports venues and the heartlessness of sports leagues and their billionaire owners (mostly NFL).

It is indeed a good article. It should be noted that a lot of the really great Downtown rejuvenation projects it discusses (Sacramento, Kansas City) were arenas and not stadiums, thereby avoiding the worst perpetrator of franchise-based hostage-taking: the NFL. Arenas play a better role in urban rejuvenation projects than stadiums do, evidently, although stadiums can be used wisely as well. I'm sure forumers in Edmonton can attest to this, as will forumers in Moncton and eventually Ottawa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Nevertheless, for a major event like the World Cup I don't think you can discount seating capacity, just like you can't discount the other elements that are behind the ultimate decision of where the games are played (such as the requirements for the social area next to the stadium, as well as the amenities available in the larger community).

Absolutely. Seating capacity plays a role just as much as everything else. If we had a 35,000 capacity stadium in Yellowknife I don't think we would be forcing teams and fans to travel there just because the stadium could hold a lot of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

In the end BMO is going to host games based upon its location, not because of the stadium itself. I think that's also the reason Edmonton will be the odd city out; the city just isn't at the same level as the Big Three and the bid committee will take notice of that assuming Olympic doesn't cave in between now and 2026.

Partly agreed with this. I strongly believe the CSA is pushing hard for BMO and BC Place as they are the two stadiums used for Canadian National team matches. Edmonton gets left out because it's a smaller city but probably gets ahead of Montreal on this CSA familiarity factor. Commonwealth has a history of hosting big matches for the National Teams. CSA hasn't had a rosy time of hosting matches in Montreal for a plethora of reasons which would could finger-point both ways. I'm not sold on Olympic being up-to-snuff and FIFA bids should be looking at cost-cutting to bring down the overall expenses of hosts in the future, thereby eliminating Olympic from contention (unless funding is provided for something other than directly supporting the WC bid). Olympic probably has the worst layout of the four stadiums.

However, in saying all that, Edmonton probably gets put behind Montreal because just imagine the outcry if Montreal didn't get a match but Edmonton did.

J.OT13 · #13 Posted **Jan 24, 2018, 2:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

It is indeed a good article. It should be noted that a lot of the really great Downtown rejuvenation projects it discusses (Sacramento, Kansas City) were arenas and not stadiums, thereby avoiding the worst perpetrator of franchise-based hostage-taking: the NFL. Arenas play a better role in urban rejuvenation projects than stadiums do, evidently, although stadiums can be used wisely as well. I'm sure forumers in Edmonton can attest to this, as will forumers in Moncton and eventually Ottawa.

I could see that. Arenas (Hockey and Basketball) usually have a much higher number of event dates than football stadiums. I wonder how Baseball Stadiums fare considering they host 81 home games per year.

elly63 · #14 Posted **Jan 24, 2018, 2:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Partly agreed with this. I strongly believe the CSA is pushing hard for BMO and BC Place

Don't see that at all, they can't be seen to be pushing for anybody and not alienate members from the provincial associations.

Everyplace has advantages and disadvantages. If they can refurb the Big O properly (and have it in the bid) they will be hard to leave out.

J.OT13 · #15 Posted **Jan 24, 2018, 2:22 AM**

In other news, the Sens are one step closer to moving back to Ottawa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daud

Garrioch: NCC and RendezVous LeBreton have reached agreement in principle for Flats development

The National Capital Commission and the RendezVous LeBreton Group are expected to announce an agreement in principle to redevelop LeBreton Flats Thursday.

Two well-placed sources told this newspaper Tuesday that the NCC and RendezVous LeBreton have reached a land transfer agreement and they could be ready to make the next step in what will lead to the building of a downtown arena to house the Ottawa Senators.

While the deal won’t be completely finalized during Thursday’s meeting of the NCC board of directors, this is a major step forward in these talks.

It’s believed the RendesVouz group — a partnership between Senators’ owner Eugene Melnyk and John Ruddy of Trinity Developments — will then have six to 12 months to get the financing in place for the massive $3 billion development which could change the face of the city.

Mark Kristmanson, the NCC’s chief operating officer, indicated late last year this would be a “milestone” meeting for the board of directors, who are being briefed “in camera” on the details of the agreement Wednesday.

Moving this project to the next step is significant because the negotiations between the two sides have been ongoing since RendezVous LeBreton was given preferred bidder status by the NCC in April, 2016.

It’s uncertain whether Melnyk will attend the meeting with the talks at a delicate stage for a new downtown rink, but it would be surprising if all the ‘i’s’ are dotted and ‘t’s’ are crossed Thursday. At this point, Melnyk might want to take a step back from the spotlight until everything is in place 100 per cent.

There are 35 minutes set aside on the NCC’s agenda for the LeBreton portion of the discussions, which will include a staff update on the talks.

There is a sense in the community that this is a watershed moment for the ownership of the franchise and especially those who have refused to listen to Melnyk when he says he’ll never sell the team and it’s not for sale.

Though Melnyk stated last month on Parliament Hill he wasn’t sure a downtown arena was as important as everybody was making it out to be, it should be noted he was still in the middle of negotiations for a new rink at LeBreton and it makes no sense to show all your cards while trying to get a deal done.

If there’s going to be an events centre (also known as a rink) it needs a main tenant and Melnyk owns that part of the deal so his presence in these negotiations are key.

The Senators have looked at other sites in the area that could house a new arena, but LeBreton makes the most sense because it’s five minutes west of Parliament Hill, will be on the new LRT line and the NCC has been looking for something that’s going to attract people to the area.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly have both stated they feel it’s paramount the Senators have a downtown arena. The Senators curtained off 1,500 seats coming into the season hoping to create more of a demand at the rink and the club is average 15,460 people per-game.

You have to give these two sides credit because these discussions have been air tight as far as information goes. If Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson didn’t sit on the board in a non-voting role then you wonder how much he would know?

One also gets the feeling that once Thursday ends, there will still be some heavy lifting to be done but this is a major step in the right direction.

http://ottawasun.com/news/local-news...0-6ccb3ad646f0