Chief William Commanda Bridge (former Prince of Wales Bridge)

[J.OT13]

I'm shocked they're doing something. I was sure they would wait for the Feds to step in. Then again, by doing it themselves, they could design the MUP in a way to prevent rail from ever crossing.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm shocked they're doing something. I was sure they would wait for the Feds to step in. Then again, by doing it themselves, they could design the MUP in a way to prevent rail from ever crossing.

lol, get ready to stay shocked for 5-10 years.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm shocked they're doing something. I was sure they would wait for the Feds to step in. Then again, by doing it themselves, they could design the MUP in a way to prevent rail from ever crossing.

I'm generally for a rail crossing at that location, but I'm not sure that bridge is the way to do it. It's old, had no maintenance for the better part of 20 years, and only single tracked. If we want a rail crossing there, we'd be further ahead to build a new bridge that actually meets our needs and will last rather than try and fix this one and then also have to build a MUP bridge, and then have to replace this one in 30 years anyways. With a MUP on it, that bridge should last a long time.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I'm generally for a rail crossing at that location, but I'm not sure that bridge is the way to do it. It's old, had no maintenance for the better part of 20 years, and only single tracked. If we want a rail crossing there, we'd be further ahead to build a new bridge that actually meets our needs and will last rather than try and fix this one and then also have to build a MUP bridge, and then have to replace this one in 30 years anyways. With a MUP on it, that bridge should last a long time.

That's probably the most likely scenario. The bridge has been neglected so long that it could never support rail, so MUP is the only chance at giving it a new life. Hopefully, the Feds can champion a project to build double track rail on a new bridge next to it in the near future. They have expressed interest in building two, maybe three new road bridge (Alexandra replacement, Kettle and a west end bridge), why not a transit only bridge for Trillium?

[acottawa]

The bridge ends in a low density residential neighbouhood with no major employers. Its route was almost certainly chosen with the purpose of bypassing the downtowns of the two cities. At best it provides a slight time savings for the 0% of UQO students who live in the South end of Ottawa or a small time savings for Alymer residents going to certain destinations on the West side of Ottawa.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The bridge ends in a low density residential neighbouhood with no major employers. Its route was almost certainly chosen with the purpose of bypassing the downtowns of the two cities. At best it provides a slight time savings for the 0% of UQO students who live in the South end of Ottawa or a small time savings for Alymer residents going to certain destinations on the West side of Ottawa.

In the event that the Trillium would end at UQO, passengers from Gatineau who work in Ottawa's south or west end (Carleton, Confederation Heights, the airport along on Trillium OR Tunney's, DND Moodie along Confederation) would have save a significant amount of time by avoiding a detour through downtown.

Options for extension of the Trillium beyond UQO would be east to end at Zibi, across the street from Terraces de la Chaudière, or it could go north a few stations to the Casino (near various Federal offices) and beyond.

It would act as a secondary link between the two cities to reduce pressure on the STO and Confederation Lines downtown, and provide a more equitable distribution of passengers between OC and the STO.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

In the event that the Trillium would end at UQO, passengers from Gatineau who work in Ottawa's south or west end (Carleton, Confederation Heights, the airport along on Trillium OR Tunney's, DND Moodie along Confederation) would have save a significant amount of time by avoiding a detour through downtown.

Options for extension of the Trillium beyond UQO would be east to end at Zibi, across the street from Terraces de la Chaudière, or it could go north a few stations to the Casino (near various Federal offices) and beyond.

It would act as a secondary link between the two cities to reduce pressure on the STO and Confederation Lines downtown, and provide a more equitable distribution of passengers between OC and the STO.

I don’t think there is any practical way to extend Trillium either towards the casino (at least using the German rural trains they currently use) or Zibi without enormously costly grade separations.

For Alymer residents who work on the West side it offers a slight time savings. If Gatineau wants to pay for it then fine. But it offers zero benefits to Ottawa. If Ottawa has hundreds of millions for Trillium extensions they should start extending towards downtown.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t think there is any practical way to extend Trillium either towards the casino (at least using the German rural trains they currently use) or Zibi without enormously costly grade separations.

For Alymer residents who work on the West side it offers a slight time savings. If Gatineau wants to pay for it then fine. But it offers zero benefits to Ottawa. If Ottawa has hundreds of millions for Trillium extensions they should start extending towards downtown.

The Stadler FLIRTs are theoretically capable of operating with at-grade crossings I believe. They are in the US, though Canadian regulations haven't quite caught up yet.

I could be completely wrong about this though.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

The Stadler FLIRTs are theoretically capable of operating with at-grade crossings I believe. They are in the US, though Canadian regulations haven't quite caught up yet.

I could be completely wrong about this though.

Nobody seems to be using them that way. They are being used for intercity or commuter services, including in the US.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t think there is any practical way to extend Trillium either towards the casino (at least using the German rural trains they currently use) or Zibi without enormously costly grade separations.

For Alymer residents who work on the West side it offers a slight time savings. If Gatineau wants to pay for it then fine. But it offers zero benefits to Ottawa. If Ottawa has hundreds of millions for Trillium extensions they should start extending towards downtown.

There is an existing RoW to Zibi. No need to cross any streets. We would only have to figure out a few MUPs crossing the line. The line would end in or around the old E.B. Eddy building at Montcalm and Alexandre-Taché.

It would be a great benefit to Ottawa residents who live in the south end and work in Hull, saving them one or two transfers, or west end residents working at Terraces, saving them a 10-15 minutes.

[OTownandDown]

Further along the rail line, STO has restored an almost identical bridge to *two way bus traffic* with lights, a MUP, AND they embedded the rail lines into the bus drive lane to keep the line operational and not have a run-in with the feds/moose. Its fascinating what they've done. So I don't know if we can judge something to be impossible.

Having said that, the POW is in the middle of the Ottawa River...

Personally, I've cycled across the bridge in summer, pre-fence days it was just wide open to whomever. Although it was sketchy with wide gaps between ties and just a little wire 'bump line' along the edge. You could easily cover the ties with some sort of walking surface, and attach railings to it.

The 'jumping pier' is really obvious. You'd think kids would be able to identify it, or pass on the knowledge to their juniors.

At best, having a MUP here will allow for an alternative cycling route. You might be able to take off a couple minutes from an Alymer-Downtown route by skipping the area in front of Terrasses and heading around the War Museum instead. The bridge also has an awesome view of downtown.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Nobody seems to be using them that way. They are being used for intercity or commuter services, including in the US.

Well if the city switched to other light rail vehicles then your point is moot anyway because there's no issue with at-grade crossings and light rail vehicles.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

There is an existing RoW to Zibi. No need to cross any streets. We would only have to figure out a few MUPs crossing the line. The line would end in or around the old E.B. Eddy building at Montcalm and Alexandre-Taché.

It would be a great benefit to Ottawa residents who live in the south end and work in Hull, saving them one or two transfers, or west end residents working at Terraces, saving them a 10-15 minutes.

It’s an old abandoned line through a public park and nearly in people’s backyards, and probably susceptible to flooding. It is not suitable or safe for a fairly high speed, fairly high frequency commuter line. Using this logic you might as well rebuild the line on the Ottawa side, through the parkland.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Well if the city switched to other light rail vehicles then your point is moot anyway because there's no issue with at-grade crossings and light rail vehicles.

Yes, they could completely reimagine/reconstruct their line as a tram system.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It’s an old abandoned line through a public park and nearly in people’s backyards, and probably susceptible to flooding. It is not suitable or safe for a fairly high speed, fairly high frequency commuter line. Using this logic you might as well rebuild the line on the Ottawa side, through the parkland.

I live near there. The rail line passes near a dozen backyards, but is separated by several metres and a sizable berm. Millar Street folk probably still wouldn't be happy, but it's far from an unreasonable nuisance, especially with some basic mitigation measures. The rail line is also pretty high up and is not prone to flooding, even during the record years.

I'm not advocating for its use, but these are just not good reasons not to

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I live near there. The rail line passes near a dozen backyards, but is separated by several metres and a sizable berm. Millar Street folk probably still wouldn't be happy, but it's far from an unreasonable nuisance, especially with some basic mitigation measures. The rail line is also pretty high up and is not prone to flooding, even during the record years.

I'm not advocating for its use, but these are just not good reasons not to

I don’t live in Gatineau, so I don’t know how people would react to such things. If you did that in Ottawa (say rebuilt the old railway through New Edinburgh park to take advantage of the old bridge foundation) people would lose their s***.

[trainshumanist]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t live in Gatineau, so I don’t know how people would react to such things. If you did that in Ottawa (say rebuilt the old railway through New Edinburgh park to take advantage of the old bridge foundation) people would lose their s***.

They'll get over it eventually

[J.OT13]

Why Ottawa is now rushing to build a pathway on the POW Bridge

Jon Willing, Post Media
Dec 11, 2020



The city is racing against the clock to design a pathway for the deck of the run-down Prince of Wales Bridge.

If the federal Liberals announce a massive stimulus program — which they appear primed to do, with few details so far, to provide a post-pandemic economic boost — the city wants to be in a position to have the engineering and design work in hand, ready to tender the construction project on a dime. Looming always in a minority government, and perhaps especially so for the governing federal Liberals in 2021, is the possibility of an election.

Council this week authorized spending $540,000 for the environmental assessment, design and necessary permits for a bridge-deck pathway. It will involve all the pre-construction analysis required, beyond the work already completed in recent months on the feasibility of a pathway and a conceptual design. When the next batch of work is done, the project will be “shovel ready.”

When council approved the study on Wednesday, higher-ups at city hall were sorting out that night which staff member would manage the bridge conversion project. It’s moving fast after years of uncertainty.

Working in the city’s favour is federal representation in the area of the bridge. Catherine McKenna is the Ottawa Centre MP and she committed before the last federal election to making the bridge conversion a priority. McKenna, lucky for the city’s bridge ambitions, is infrastructure minister.

The City of Ottawa has owned the bridge since 2005 after acquiring the old CP rail corridor that’s now the Trillium Line, whose northern terminus is Bayview Station.

The initial $10-million estimate to transform the bridge deck into a pathway is still in the ballpark of what the city expects the job to cost, if not a tad higher. The environmental assessment and refined design work will provide more clarity to the actual price. The study will be done by a consultant on the city’s list of companies that have standing offers to do city work as needed.

While the money for the study is coming from a fund to rehabilitate the bridge piers, the city says the piers can be remedied through phases and there’s enough money left in the account for the work. The city is also counting on a converted bridge deck providing important weather protection for the piers. Since the city owns the bridge, it will continue to be responsible for maintenance.

The city, for now, is simply looking to build a meat-and-potatoes kind of pathway on the bridge deck, something that will get the job done and provide a useful and unique active-transportation crossing between Ottawa and Gatineau. It needs to be a design that can be constructed rather quickly if the stimulus program comes with time requirements for project completion.

So, residents probably shouldn’t expect things like benches for watching the sunsets. There will be room for people to stop and enjoy the vistas, but the add-ons would likely come later. The city has been designing a revamped bridge with, as obvious priorities, a safe deck, secure sides and good lighting, along with good approaches from the existing path network.

The city has a muse in a converted rail bridge in Fredricton, N.B. The 607-metre truss bridge over the Saint John River has had a path on the deck since 1997.

In Ottawa, the city doesn’t consider the Prince of Wales Bridge conversion as a particularly difficult job, especially since it’s not trying to reimagine the entire bridge. The city knows the bridge has potential to be a landmark piece of infrastructure, something that architects might suggest creates a “moment” for pedestrians and cyclists travelling along the Ottawa River.

Instead of shoving off the bridge problem for another 15 years or more, the city is now moving quickly to make sure its design vision is ready for stimulus funding. Breathing new life into the ailing Prince of Wales Bridge could be a legacy of the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://ottawasun.com/news/local-new...e-ca512fdca2c1

[J.OT13]

2017 drone video of the bridge.

• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I'm generally for a rail crossing at that location, but I'm not sure that bridge is the way to do it. It's old, had no maintenance for the better part of 20 years, and only single tracked. If we want a rail crossing there, we'd be further ahead to build a new bridge that actually meets our needs and will last rather than try and fix this one and then also have to build a MUP bridge, and then have to replace this one in 30 years anyways. With a MUP on it, that bridge should last a long time.

The main reason for using the PoW for transit is primarily "because it's there".

If we can't use the PoW structure in some way because it's beyond repair, even if we agree a new rail transit crossing would be a good thing, my question would then be "why there?".

People would answer that the Trillium line on one side and the Rapibus (and old rail) corridors on the other are justification for a crossing, but even if a nice to have, it's nowhere near the top of the priority list for rapid transit in this region.