Atlantic Highways Thread

[J81]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't know where J81 lives, but I betcha he doesn't remember what it used to be like travelling between Moncton and Freddy on the old TCH (before it was twinned), or on the shortcut through Coles Island.

Also can you imagine the chaos on the 11/15 to Shediac (the Shediac Four Lane) if it wasn't divided!!! That road is busier than the TCH!!!! That fancy new 11/15 interchange at Shediac may be a tad overbuilt, but it's predecessor was downright dangerous (especially that short on ramp onto the southbound rte 11 exit lane onto the 15 at Shediac) - pure suicide!!!

Im from Moncton and used to drive the old road all the way to Riv de Loup every week so yes i do remember those days.

Agreed the old interchange was dangerous and the new one is ridiculously overbuilt

[J81]

Originally Posted by OUIR@random

1. People who believe that Highway 2 (Trans-Canada) in our province doesn't need to be a four lane highway are oblivious and should go back under their rock. Because we are in New Brunswick doesn't mean we are meant to be less than. I understand that we are in a dire financial situation in this province, but there are many areas and services where cuts are needed, but why is that only certain areas of the province are victims of these cuts? Just raise sales tax to 18% and we will all pay and not just certain people, groups or areas? Put tolls at the entrances of the province, NS, PEI and QC, they all say that we a drive-by province, then pay up people.

2. The highway 11 expansion between the North and the South is not only meant for the people of Bouctouche, Shediac, Kent county, it's for all the traffic (people), goods
& products, going and coming on the eastern coast from the Acadian Peninsula, Bathurst and Miramichi; from Shediac to Bouctouche it is justified. Higgs is wrong in stopping this, it was only stopped because it's a French and Liberal riding, so it was easy for him. Period. It is the busiest 2 lane highway in the province. People love to take from others and to say (others-them) don't need this or that when it doesn't affect them. If you don't need to drive on this highway 11 or live in around Moncton, of course you don't give a $hit about highway 11! Highways are a need, a new arena wasn't, so let's not start with that.

There are many things in our our region that we can't afford...

Note: The Trans-Canada should be 4 lanes all across Canada.

Of course someone had to make it about language. Anytime a project is cancelled in a french riding its an attack on the french. Give me a break.

Ill agree with you on tolls though. Im all in favour.

No the trans canada does not need to be divided the whole way across. Thats just silly. It passes through some of the most remote ares of the country where there isnt a town for 100 miles.

[J81]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Oh yea I read about B trains having to decouple on Route 185.

That’s just sad...

On another note, this probably explains why most cross-Canada trucks would rather go through the states instead of using TCH through Central Canada.

B trains do not have to seperate on the 185. You are confusing the different times of trains there are on the roads

[OUIR@random]

Originally Posted by J81

Of course someone had to make it about language. Anytime a project is cancelled in a french riding its an attack on the french. Give me a break.

Ill agree with you on tolls though. Im all in favour.

No the trans canada does not need to be divided the whole way across. Thats just silly. It passes through some of the most remote ares of the country where there isnt a town for 100 miles.

Most of the cuts were made in Liberal ridings and French ridings, deal with it. If this was in a Conservative (Provincial and Federal) & English riding, (Highway 11) would've went as planned to Bouctouche. Half the work is paid and done! Nous parlons peut-être français, mais nous ne sommes pas stupides, au contraire. Nous devons être encore plus vigilants par les temps qui courent dans cette province, en Ontario aussi d'ailleurs.

[OUIR@random]

Originally Posted by J81

Of course someone had to make it about language. Anytime a project is cancelled in a french riding its an attack on the french. Give me a break.

Ill agree with you on tolls though. Im all in favour.

No the trans canada does not need to be divided the whole way across. Thats just silly. It passes through some of the most remote ares of the country where there isnt a town for 100 miles.

I don't think you understand the concept of a highway system or the fact that a highway is not for the people living in the said area where the highway passes through (as remote as it may be). This is my last comment on the subject, see ya!

[Dengler Avenue]

Il faut noter qu’au moins la réfection du pont Centennial à Miramichi se continuera, cependant. C’est importante. (Vous savez sûrement qu’il est très achalandé.)

Quant à l'élargissement de la Route 11 Néo-brunswikoise, n’est-ce pas les seuls travaux majeurs dans la province, si nous ne comptons pas la réfection des (autres) ponts? *Je pense* qu’il n’y a aucune autre construction majeure hors des régions francophones dans ce cas. (Évidemment j’ai peut-être tort.)

(Mais oui, je veux voir cette autoroute élargie aussi. Malheureusement, l’état financier de beaucoup de provinces canadiennes est assez mauvais. Il serait génial si l’on aurait un montant infini d’argent pour toute chose, non?)

[riverviewer]

Originally Posted by J81

the new one is ridiculously overbuilt

Overbuilding isn't ridiculous, rather it welcomes the increase of population we all hope for. Under-building without thought for growth is ridiculous.

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by J81

Agreed the old interchange was dangerous and the new one is ridiculously overbuilt

The new interchange seems like a pretty standard highway split. I’m not sure what else could have been done while keeping those routes controlled access. Even now, it’s incomplete; driving from route 11 southbound to PEI and vice-versa requires leaving the highway and going through a roundabout. What would you have proposed?

[Scarface]

There where signs on either side of the highway that where seemingly being removed as we drove by saying something like

"How many more accidents must happen before they realize the need for the split."

I know there had been accidents on route 11. But 1. not sure how bad they where, and 2.not sure if changing it to a divided highway would stop the accidents from happening.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Scarface

I know there had been accidents on route 11. But 1. not sure how bad they where, and 2.not sure if changing it to a divided highway would stop the accidents from happening.

1 - I don't know if the accident rate is that much higher than on similar roads elsewhere in the province, but when they occur, they tend to be bad. The road is subject to a lot of bad weather (squalls off the Strait), has no passing lanes (hence agitated drivers passing imprudently) and there are a lot of moose.
2 - A divided highway with a wide median would prevent head on collisions (which cause the majority of fatalities) so, yes, a properly twinned highway would mean that a potential head on collision might be mitigated into a car simply sliding off into a ditch - a much better outcome as far as I'm concerned........

[Manny2727]

to cancel the twining off highway 11 to bouctouche is a bad business decision if you look at it. federal government was paying half of it and province paid the other half. when higgs cancelled it, the federal government took that money off the table.

it's like somebody told you to renovate your house for $50000 and if you do, they'll give you $25000. if it's needed (like i think twining was), then it's a no brainer.

[L'homard]

I disagree. It's more like being on the brink of bankruptcy, and buying a very expensive item that you don't need just because someone else is paying half. It might be a good deal, but now you're teetering on insolvency.

[J81]

Originally Posted by OUIR@random

Most of the cuts were made in Liberal ridings and French ridings, deal with it. If this was in a Conservative (Provincial and Federal) & English riding, (Highway 11) would've went as planned to Bouctouche. Half the work is paid and done! Nous parlons peut-être français, mais nous ne sommes pas stupides, au contraire. Nous devons être encore plus vigilants par les temps qui courent dans cette province, en Ontario aussi d'ailleurs.

There were cuts in Saint John, Fredericton and Moncton as well. So you are wrong once again but you dont want to see the big picture because you like to play the victim of an attack on your language. Go crawl back in your home!

[J81]

Originally Posted by L'homard

I disagree. It's more like being on the brink of bankruptcy, and buying a very expensive item that you don't need just because someone else is paying half. It might be a good deal, but now you're teetering on insolvency.

This👆👆👆 is spot on!!

[J81]

i invite everyone in this thread who thinks highway 11 needs to be twinned to do some research on roads and highways in different parts of North America. Ill even give you a starting point. Look at cities and towns in Ontario north of 401 between Goderich eastward to Orangeville and North to Collingwood and Owen sound. I know you wont so i did it for you. Have a gander!

Cities and towns in area i mentioned,

Collingwood - 21793 (2016)
Wasaga beach - 20675
Orangeville - 28900
Owen Sound - 21341
St Marys - 7265
Stratford - 31465
Listowel - 7530
Goderich - 7628

There is not one divided interstate calibre highway between any of these towns and cities. Its the heart of farm country in Ontario and very busy. There are ports in Owen Sound and Goderich. There are huge tourist areas in Collingwood and Wasaga Beach yet still no big fancy highways. My oh my! How does commerce exist without a divided highway!?? The busiest stretch of road is between Brampton and Orangeville on Highway 10. Its 2 lanes each direction with an extra passing up the big hill between them. Its very busy year round but No fancy interchanges and bridges or anything. Just a big wide road. It gets the job done just fine.

Here are the stats for some towns and cities along rte 11 for comparison.


Shediac - 6664
Cocagne - 2649
Bouctouche - 2341
Rexton - 818
Richibucto - 1266
Miramichi - 17537
Bathurst - 12275 ( 2011 )
Campbellton - 6883

If that doesnt put things in perspective i dont know what to tell you. Big fancy highways are nice to have for sure. However when we live in a province as broke as NB we have to stop and think sometimes if its better to make improvements in a more financially responsible manner.

Route 11 could use some upgrades for sure. I wont deny that. But adding long passing lanes would accomplish the exact same thing at a fraction of the price.

[MonctonRad]

I know southwestern Ontario modestly well, having vacationed up there a couple of times in the last five years. What you have said is mostly true but.

- Highway 8 is divided well past Kitchener and only reverts to a rural highway about 10-12 km before Stratford.
- There is continuous work being done on the 410 around Brampton, and Highway 10 north as far as Orangeville I would classify as a "super super non divided highway" (very wide four lane non divided highway with very broad shoulders and lots of space to avoid oncoming traffic).
- They have completed a bypass around Wasaga Beach and Collingwood (non divided to be sure, but a limited access "super two" with overpasses and I'm pretty sure a potential to be divided in the future)

There is no question that large towns like Owen Sound and Goderich have been ignored by the Ontario Department of Highways, but Ontario has more urgent business trying to keep highways in the Greater Golden Horseshoe from becoming hopelessly overburdened. It is always difficult to compare the needs of two entirely different provinces.

And finally, it bears repeating that the dividing of the southern portion of Route 11 here in NB isn't just to serve the pampered citizens of Bouctouche. Highway 11 is the principle highway connecting Moncton to the Miramichi, the Acadian Peninsula and the Chaleur coast. There is a lot of truck traffic, and south of Bouctouche, the traffic situation is compounded by exurban commuter flow and tourists traffic. Throw in weather conditions and moose and I think you have ample justification to divide this segment.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by riverviewer

Overbuilding isn't ridiculous, rather it welcomes the increase of population we all hope for. Under-building without thought for growth is ridiculous.

It also welcomes an increase in sprawl, something that NB can certainly not afford.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I know southwestern Ontario modestly well, having vacationed up there a couple of times in the last five years. What you have said is mostly true but.

- Highway 8 is divided well past Kitchener and only reverts to a rural highway about 10-12 km before Stratford.
- There is continuous work being done on the 410 around Brampton, and Highway 10 north as far as Orangeville I would classify as a "super super non divided highway" (very wide four lane non divided highway with very broad shoulders and lots of space to avoid oncoming traffic).
- They have completed a bypass around Wasaga Beach and Collingwood (non divided to be sure, but a limited access "super two" with overpasses and I'm pretty sure a potential to be divided in the future)

There is no question that large towns like Owen Sound and Goderich have been ignored by the Ontario Department of Highways, but Ontario has more urgent business trying to keep highways in the Greater Golden Horseshoe from becoming hopelessly overburdened. It is always difficult to compare the needs of two entirely different provinces.

And finally, it bears repeating that the dividing of the southern portion of Route 11 here in NB isn't just to serve the pampered citizens of Bouctouche. Highway 11 is the principle highway connecting Moncton to the Miramichi, the Acadian Peninsula and the Chaleur coast. There is a lot of truck traffic, and south of Bouctouche, the traffic situation is compounded by exurban commuter flow and tourists traffic. Throw in weather conditions and moose and I think you have ample justification to divide this segment.

To clarify, ON-26 Wasaga Bypass actually has divided 4 lanes, but that’s it in South Central Ontario. There’s been in fact a long term plan to upgrade the entire corridor of Highway 26 up to Owen Sound. But yes I do agree that too much has been spent in GTHA and too little elsewhere.

On a somewhat digressive note, now that feds have taken that money back, I wonder if it can be used towards any of the projects below:
Kicking Horse Canyon Phase 4 (BC), Manitoba-Ontario corridor, Highway 417 Extension (ON), Route 185 upgrade (QC), and finally, Highway 104 twinning (NS).

But MonctonRad also has some good points. I didn’t know truck traffic would be heavy on the NB-11 corridor. Squalls from Northumberland Straight are for sure hazardous.

Ps: Any thought about an interim 2+1 design for Route 11? MonctonRad are you familiar with that?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

But MonctonRad also has some good points. I didn’t know truck traffic would be heavy on the NB-11 corridor. Squalls from Northumberland Straight are for sure hazardous.

Ps: Any thought about an interim 2+1 design for Route 11? MonctonRad are you familiar with that?

I wouldn't say the truck traffic is overtly heavy, but this is the principle transportation corridor between the north of the province (over 200,000 people) and greater Moncton (150,000), therefore even expected truck traffic is a nuisance, especially since there are no passing lanes on the 11 (the highway is built on a flat coastal plain therefore passing lanes to get by trucks was probably felt unnecessary - no hills).

There are no 2+1 highways in NB. The problems with Highway 11 could mostly be solved by having regularly spaced passing lanes, although vehicles losing control would still be at risk for head on collisions. I would still opt for dividing the highway as far as Bouctouche, and adding passing lanes north of this point.

[J81]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I wouldn't say the truck traffic is overtly heavy, but this is the principle transportation corridor between the north of the province (over 200,000 people) and greater Moncton (150,000), therefore even expected truck traffic is a nuisance, especially since there are no passing lanes on the 11 (the highway is built on a flat coastal plain therefore passing lanes to get by trucks was probably felt unnecessary - no hills).

There are no 2+1 highways in NB. The problems with Highway 11 could mostly be solved by having regularly spaced passing lanes, although vehicles losing control would still be at risk for head on collisions. I would still opt for dividing the highway as far as Bouctouche, and adding passing lanes north of this point.

Would it not serve the area well if a lane was added both directions between the Cocagne interchange and mckees mills and again between Sheridan road and the scales? Then just add intermittent passing lanes north or bouctouche?