Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Bolded, your joking right, these guys aren't flying a Boeing 757, the transitway is access limited and makes stops at new stations, the speed limit is 80 KMPH, wow that's complicated!

The analogy for letting the second phase sit idle would be as stupid as buying a new car and leaving sitting on your parking pad for six months before you drive it.

And so it's a P3 project, payments are being made for something that is not being used, pretty dumb no?

But they have to drive on surface streets along some of their routes as well as having a new type of bus. I would certainly hope they were trained.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Bolded, your joking right, these guys aren't flying a Boeing 757, the transitway is access limited and makes stops at new stations, the speed limit is 80 KMPH, wow that's complicated!

The analogy for letting the second phase sit idle would be as stupid as buying a new car and leaving sitting on your parking pad for six months before you drive it.

And so it's a P3 project, payments are being made for something that is not being used, pretty dumb no?

Exactly... Winnipeg's BRT is a fucking joke..

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Spocket

But they have to drive on surface streets along some of their routes as well as having a new type of bus. I would certainly hope they were trained.

Am I missing something, are these bus drivers that will be running the Southwest Transit-way all new drivers that have never driven a bus before on regular routes that all seem to be surface roots?

[cllew]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

It's pathetic that the second phase of the rapid transit line didn't open as soon as it was completed, total load of BS that they needed to train drivers, seriously!

Even if training was not required, transit does not make any route changes (adding, deleting or rerouting) until their scheduled route adjustments which are a few times a year.

So if the rapid transit was ready between scheduled changes it would sit until them.

[Andy6]

Things tend to be more complicated in real life than they appear on the Internet.

[Tfc99]

Changes alway in spring when ridership goes down to avoid mass confusion (public) with all the changes due to he transit way.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Things tend to be more complicated in real life than they appear on the Internet.

Actually I think the reverse is true!

[Tfc99]

No 160,161,162,163,170,180,181,183 also changes to 47,72,29,99,94

[optimusREIM]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ysis-1.5457171

Hmmm what the actual fuck!?

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ysis-1.5457171

Hmmm what the actual fuck!?

"Phasing" "Planning"....truly the most dreaded words for Winnipeggers. This entire experiment is a colossal MESS! How do you invest all that money building tunnels and bridges only to have buses run on it? Complete insanity! "Future LRT plans"... don't believe it for a second! In a city like Bogota, BRT works because rapid transit is an absolute necessity! They could have donkey carts running on dedicated grade separated transit lines and they would be packed. In a place like Winnipeg where people have zero experience using rapid transit, you have to make it attractive... a novelty....COOL! Or else, nobody will give a f@ck! They botched this entire project from the beginning.

[Riverman]

Every organization has a debt ceiling, looks like the city has hit theirs.

[buzzg]

Why isn't anyone in the media grilling Bowman on the fact he straight up lied about his two biggest campaign promises of tearing down the P&M barriers and 6 full BRT lines by 2030. I don't get it. Impeach!

[Ando]

This is pathetic in so many ways - a provincial government not giving a damn about rapid transit in Winnipeg and a City (and province) that are not capable of leveraging the massive amounts of cash available from the feds for rapid transit. And Kives is an ass, comparing rapid transit to a laser pyramid.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ysis-1.5457171

Hmmm what the actual fuck!?

How did you guys not see this one coming? The City is fiscally constrained and our politicians refuse to acknowledge that in order to function like a big city, you need to fund it accordingly. Instead, our politicians think 2.3% property tax increases is enough to cover record population growth, even though the 2% goes straight to filling potholes - yeah, real "Big City" thinking, hey?

It's no surprise that during this budget cycle, where we are literally scraping the bottom of the "savings and efficiency" barrel and considering doing things like shutting off half the street lights to save a couple million, that news our rapid transit expansion plan is basically done for the next couple of decades is finally making it to the media.

Politicians in Winnipeg like to pretend they are forward thinking, but none of them have the balls to enact what's needed because the voter base whines like colicky babies anytime the phrase "property tax increase" is mentioned.

Right now, Winnipeg is experiencing record population and economic growth and instead of capitalizing on it, politicians are finding ways to close down community centres, reduce capital investment, make congestion worse, and overall make Winnipeg a much less desirable place to live in all for the sake of saving stale vocal conservative surburanites a couple bucks a year. Our city council is a joke.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

How did you guys not see this one coming? The City is fiscally constrained and our politicians refuse to acknowledge that in order to function like a big city, you need to fund it accordingly. Instead, our politicians think 2.3% property tax increases is enough to cover record population growth, even though the 2% goes straight to filling potholes - yeah, real "Big City" thinking, hey?

It's no surprise that during this budget cycle, where we are literally scraping the bottom of the "savings and efficiency" barrel and considering doing things like shutting off half the street lights to save a couple million, that news our rapid transit expansion plan is basically done for the next couple of decades is finally making it to the media.

Politicians in Winnipeg like to pretend they are forward thinking, but none of them have the balls to enact what's needed because the voter base whines like colicky babies anytime the phrase "property tax increase" is mentioned.

Right now, Winnipeg is experiencing record population and economic growth and instead of capitalizing on it, politicians are finding ways to close down community centres, reduce capital investment, make congestion worse, and overall make Winnipeg a much less desirable place to live in all for the sake of saving stale vocal conservative surburanites a couple bucks a year. Our city council is a joke.

Winnipeg city council is only in it, for their paycheques. I think the only one who might give a rats ass about anything is Ross Eadie, and that's literally it. Scott Fielding was our council member, MLA or whatever in St. James for years, yet he did literally fuckall for his entire constituency. And it shows.

I'd say new elections for everyone and a ton of new election rules, but Elections Canada would have a shitfit, so Winnipeg is stuck with a city council even worse than some of the worst places to get things done in Alberta... they share all the commonalities too: lack/refusal to implement public transit (Okotoks), screeching about money (Okotoks & Chestermere), rampant crime (Red Deer), lack of investment & hampered investments as well...

If this "Western Canadian separation" Wexit thing ever becomes reality, Winnipeg needs a drastic house clearing. Nowhere is as bad in Western Canada, as Winnipeg, it terms of getting literally anything done. It's ridiculous.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by armorand93

If this "Western Canadian separation" Wexit thing ever becomes reality, Winnipeg needs a drastic house clearing. Nowhere is as bad in Western Canada, as Winnipeg, it terms of getting literally anything done. It's ridiculous.

I was attracted to the Western Canada Separatist Party in the 1980s after the CF-18 issue during the Brian Mulroney years. The maintenance contract went to a Montreal firm rather than to one in Western Canada.

https://pgdailynews.ca/index.php/201...estern-canada/

However, nothing came of the Party; they never got a seat in the House of Commons. So I wouldn't hold my breath.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ysis-1.5457171

Hmmm what the actual fuck!?

The headline is sensational, but he's just describing the proposed master plan that was released in October, which we discussed here at the time -- and most people's impressions were pretty positive. There's no actual news here. Bartley apparently didn't notice the plan until now, so we get this overly dramatic CBC headline 4 months later.

There is still a plan for rapid transit, just not grade-separated rapid transit. I don't think this is the end of the world. For the downtown to Polo Park line, for example, Portage Avenue was always the most logical route, and there's no way for a Portage RT line to be grade-separated unless we go for elevated rail (which would be awesome, but let's be realistic).

I'd say it's the same for most of the city. Most of the places that you actually want RT to serve don't have any obvious candidates for grade-separated corridors nearby. The options would be (1) go fully underground or elevated, which we can't afford; (2) build grade-separated transit in out-of-the way locations (e.g. the Parker dogleg, the Wilkes and Higgins rail corridors, the elevated CN line through North St. B), which creates RT lines that are forever inconvenient and underused; or (3) use existing major roads.

The city has arrived at option 3 and I can't really argue against it. I'd prefer option 1, but given the penny-pinching low-tax politics in this city, it's sadly not realistic.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Why isn't anyone in the media grilling Bowman on the fact he straight up lied about his two biggest campaign promises of tearing down the P&M barriers and 6 full BRT lines by 2030. I don't get it. Impeach!

Did anyone really believe Bowman, though? I voted for him as the best of a bad lot in 2014, but I wouldn't have wagered a dime on him getting anywhere close to realizing his BRT promise.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

The headline is sensational, but he's just describing the proposed master plan that was released in October, which we discussed here at the time -- and most people's impressions were pretty positive. There's no actual news here. Bartley apparently didn't notice the plan until now, so we get this overly dramatic CBC headline 4 months later.

There is still a plan for rapid transit, just not grade-separated rapid transit. I don't think this is the end of the world. For the downtown to Polo Park line, for example, Portage Avenue was always the most logical route, and there's no way for a Portage RT line to be grade-separated unless we go for elevated rail (which would be awesome, but let's be realistic).

I'd say it's the same for most of the city. Most of the places that you actually want RT to serve don't have any obvious candidates for grade-separated corridors nearby. The options would be (1) go fully underground or elevated, which we can't afford; (2) build grade-separated transit in out-of-the way locations (e.g. the Parker dogleg, the Wilkes and Higgins rail corridors, the elevated CN line through North St. B), which creates RT lines that are forever inconvenient and underused; or (3) use existing major roads.

The city has arrived at option 3 and I can't really argue against it. I'd prefer option 1, but given the penny-pinching low-tax politics in this city, it's sadly not realistic.

THANK YOU for the sensible comments! When I saw the article I know it would encourage the Peg-Haters to start squealing their same old dirge about how terrible everything is here. However, as you point out, despite the CBC fishing for disaster and scandal, BRT isn't "dead", it's just not going to consist exclusively of fully separated corridors.

To tell the truth, I had a hard time seeing where an east-west corridor could have been placed, outside of fanciful options of elevated roads or flying Jetsons busses or whatever people have dreamed about.

The point is (and always should have been) does the plan work to move people relatively quickly through the city? If busses still have to take some existing roads to get the job done I am okay with that. Yes, it would have felt better if the decision was based solely on functionality and not escalating costs, but we live in the real world here. Complaining "it's not what you promised" sounds more like the whine of an 8-year old who was told he/she can't go to camp because the money had to be used to fix the family car.

[bomberjet]

Bart's late to the party. It's a bit sensational, but 100% truthful.

And this is what I've been saying since the eastern corridor study started 2 years ago. They've abandoned dedicated corridors like the southwest route because they are "too expensive" and the railways "aren't playing nice", etc. This is what they told me in person at the open houses. Looking me straight in the face.

They don't like the BRT thing, it's been dropped. They want frequent service, which is fine. But everything was too expensive so it's piece mealed on street stuff. Maybe centre median lanes, maybe diamond lanes. Also truthful is the plan is not 100% figured out. The studies have been dragging on.

However, the transit master plan currently being finalized clearly deviates from the City TMP, which showed 6 dedicated BRT corridors. Changing what were proposed BRT routes to 'frequent' routes. What's left of the rapid routes are on St. Mary's and Portage. If dedicated corridor are too expensive, running a dedicated BRT median lane or such down those routes will be quite expensive as well.