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Originally Posted by Luisito
This is not improving or changing things downtow, this is keeping the status quo. Nice shiny new buildings but no real change on the ground. The only reason these drop in centres are being put in at this location is because "community activist" were complaining about losing a "gathering place". it's pure politics and now tax payers will have to pay for it.
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The issues that are getting growing attention in downtown Winnipeg have existed there longer than Portage Place. It is why there is no longer a Liquor Mart at Main and Market. And Portage Place itself was originally built to try and push some of these issues out of downtown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito
I have seen with my own eyes the last few remaining businessess leave that block on Main between logan and higgins. Look at thunder bird house on Main and higgins, its a disaster. Why are we hell bent on doing the same to the rest of downtown?
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In case you have never been to Portage Place the issues this plan is trying to address have long been there. One of my personal scariest encounters happened in Portage Place in the early 90s. The challenge with Thunderbird House and a lot of the North Main projects is unlike the plan for Portage Place they were simply designed to displace the problems rather than trying to address the deeper issues.
"If only we could close down all the cheap beverage rooms on North Main the problem would go away".
The deeper issue there is yes reducing alcohol sales on North Main sort of "fixed" that issue but there people frequenting those establishments didn't go away, instead they found different beverage rooms, many of which were in downtown Winnipeg.
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Originally Posted by pspeid
The fact remains, there is currently no other realistic plan for Portage Place, other than boarding it up or tearing it down. The issues of homelessness, mental and physical health and addiction issues that are visible downtown also need to be addressed.
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Said it earlier and I will say it again.
THE ISSSUES WITH HOMELESSNESS, MENTAL HEALTH, ADDICTION AND PHYSICAL HEALTH IN DOWNTOWN WINNIPEG PREDATE THE CONSTRUCTION OF PORTAGE PLACE.
Needed to bold and all caps that as people just do not get it. I guess if you never spend any time downtown you can pretend to not see the issues.
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Originally Posted by Luisito
Great, let's make this personal as usual. So TSNE are mental health and addiction experts now?
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Since the return of the Jets to Winnipeg in 2011 TNSE has been very active in the mental health space with Project 11. While it is focused more on youth than adults the full team at THSE has spent over a decade working with mental health professionals and learning from them.
Also if you think that addiction never happens in pro sports I got something to tell you. Because of the employer to employee relationship there it is something that is more quietly handled but TNSE also knows about substance abuse and addiction.
While neither makes TNSE directly "experts" in the field it gives them high level of credibility when they say they want to help the community with this and they are willing to put their own funds behind it.
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Originally Posted by NewIreland
So you think that the owners/tenants of Glasshouse, 288 Colony, TNS, Smith Steet Lofts, Heritage Landing, 390 on the River, Medical Arts (all of which have come online in the past few years) plus the future tenants of HBC, 300 Main, RNSQR, 138 Portage, 127 Bannatyne, Market Square, PLUS the new tower planned for the site can't support a grocery store???
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The short answer here is the changing dynamics of grocery retailing in Canada is less about if there is a population base now that could have supported a grocery store downtown 10+ years ago than it is about the dynamic that grocery retailing in Canada is in a transition mode from "grocery stores" to "fulfilment center for online orders with no public access". As I have covered in many posts margins on groceries are extremely small and theft of higher value items is very high it more at-risk neighborhoods like downtown Winnipeg. Add in the amount of consolidation that has happened in the space and the big players (Superstore/No Frills, Sobeys/Safeway/FreshCo, Walmart) aren't setting up a location in downtown likely every. This means a downtown grocery store would fall to either a full independent or need someone like Co-op to open the store.
And for all the "online groceries won't happen" people, if your choice is to pay a low price online delivered to your door or say double that price for an in-store shopping experience 20 minutes away from your home let's be realistic about which one the majority of people are going to pick. And yes there will be a super premium pricing for the in store experience to both limit the number of customers to a manageable level and to steer people to the online experience where shrink is a significantly lower cost of business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito
The executives in charge of this project probably never goto portage place or take their families there, wait for the bus at one of downtowns filthy and broken bus shelters. They don't care if this drop in centre works or not. It is all political pressure and moral posturing. Your absolutely right, downtown has gotten worse. It is naive to think this drop in centre will help anything. It will just bring more and more people to the area looking for service.
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Mark Chipman, the top person at TNSE, has very publicly interacted with the exact sort of clients the new Portage Place proposal is meant to help. As a reference see this
link
I am sure Mark and his other executives may not be day to day in running the Portage Place plans but they are not going to be anywhere near as removed from the project as you are trying to suggest. And it isn't going to be some glamorous staged PR event but I am sure they will keep an eye on things and occasionally visit on the down-low as this is something truly important to the organization, not just because of CLC operations but because they understand the larger impact to the community as a whole.