TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by vid

Trains rarely ever have to stop, they can go through deep snow like it's nothing. Alberta's deal to ship oil by rail probably rules out any future passenger rail up here, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yja2VmZOfdA

[Dengler Avenue]

Let’s see:
Each year, $1.24B of goods traverses Northern Ontario from Western to Eastern Canada.
Let’s say twinning TCH makes it $1.50B.

Q: Is the yearly maintenance cost gonna be much lower (i.e. below $.75B) for 1647 km of 4-lane divided freeway (assuming from ON/MB boundary to Nipigon via 17 and from Nipigon to N Bay via 11)?

If yes, do it; If not, then only do Arnprior to Petawawa, Mattawa to Espanola, Latchford to Englehart (11), Kitigan (Kapuskaing) to Constance Lake FN (Hearst) <11>, Nipigon to Shabaqua Corners, and Dinorwic to ON/MB boundary.

As for alternative transportation means, like I suggested before, if political will’s there, Northland Rail tracks should be reinstated west of Hearst and extended (along CN tracks) to Kenora. Northland freight and passenger trains can go together.

[Ottawaresident]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Let’s see:
Each year, $1.24B of goods traverses Northern Ontario from Western to Eastern Canada.
Let’s say twinning TCH makes it $1.50B.

Q: Is the yearly maintenance cost gonna be much lower (i.e. below $.75B) for 1647 km of 4-lane divided freeway (assuming from ON/MB boundary to Nipigon via 17 and from Nipigon to N Bay via 11)?

If yes, do it; If not, then only do Arnprior to Petawawa, Mattawa to Espanola, Latchford to Englehart (11), Kitigan (Kapuskaing) to Constance Lake FN (Hearst) <11>, Nipigon to Shabaqua Corners, and Dinorwic to ON/MB boundary.

As for alternative transportation means, like I suggested before, if political will’s there, Northland Rail tracks should be reinstated west of Hearst and extended (along CN tracks) to Kenora. Northland freight and passenger trains can go together.

Never though of that. Northland or CN or whatever should extend to Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal ...

A freeway from Arnprior to the Soo and Thunder Bay to Nipigon would satisfy me, although driving American "rural roads" just after the last time we were in North Ontario, made me sad about the state of roads in Ontario.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Never though of that. Northland or CN or whatever should extend to Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal ...

It is. We call it VIA rail. Goes from coast-to-coast. It uses existing CN rail lines.

With respect to freight, there's already 2 rail lines across Northern Ontario that are quite well used, so why do we need a third?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by wave46

It is. We call it VIA rail. Goes from coast-to-coast. It uses existing CN rail lines.

With respect to freight, there's already 2 rail lines across Northern Ontario that are quite well used, so why do we need a third?

(1) But VIA doesn't go through places like T Bay, Dryden, and Kenora. I'd think it makes more sense to serve these "population centers" if they can be called such. If train's excessive, run Northland Buses. Greyhound's not coming back.

(2) Ah okay. Never mind then.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Never though of that. Northland or CN or whatever should extend to Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal ...

A freeway from Arnprior to the Soo and Thunder Bay to Nipigon would satisfy me, although driving American "rural roads" just after the last time we were in North Ontario, made me sad about the state of roads in Ontario.

Originally Posted by wave46

It is. We call it VIA rail. Goes from coast-to-coast. It uses existing CN rail lines.

With respect to freight, there's already 2 rail lines across Northern Ontario that are quite well used, so why do we need a third?

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

(1) But VIA doesn't go through places like T Bay, Dryden, and Kenora. I'd think it makes more sense to serve these "population centers" if they can be called such. If train's excessive, run Northland Buses. Greyhound's not coming back.

(2) Ah okay. Never mind then.

1) There are no tracks between Mattawa and Ottawa.

2) Via does not connect any of the major cities in northern ON. To do that, they would need to run on the CP tracks.

3) The Northlander used to go between Cochrane and Toronto.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

(1) But VIA doesn't go through places like T Bay, Dryden, and Kenora. I'd think it makes more sense to serve these "population centers" if they can be called such. If train's excessive, run Northland Buses. Greyhound's not coming back.

I'd support expanded Ontario Northland bus service to the Northwest.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

1) There are no tracks between Mattawa and Ottawa.

2) Via does not connect any of the major cities in northern ON. To do that, they would need to run on the CP tracks.

3) The Northlander used to go between Cochrane and Toronto.

The Northlander was silly, since it just competed with Ontario Northland's bus service on the same route, but using more a more expensive method. It too did not hit the major cities of the region, except North Bay. That left Timmins, the Sault and Sudbury on the sidelines.

Buses are more flexible, cheaper to run and can provide a broader network per dollar than train lines. Yes, for a couple of days a year they can be sidelined by highway closures, but that's life in Canada and not worth spending big money for minimal improvement in service.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by wave46

I'd support expanded Ontario Northland bus service to the Northwest.

If twinning 17 between Sudbury and North Bay is deemed excessive too, perhaps ONTC could also consider more frequent bus services between the two cities. It seems to me that there are more commuters than truckers along this route. In terms of frequency, I'd suggest something like this:

Weekdays:
Every 30 minutes between 5 a.m. and 6 a.m. and between 6 p.m. and 7 p.m.;
Every 20 minutes between 6 a.m. and 9 a.m. and between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m.;
Every 60 minutes otherwise, with the last bus leaving both cities at 11 p.m.

Weekends:
Every 60 minutes from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m.

Thoughts?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

If twinning 17 between Sudbury and North Bay is deemed excessive too, perhaps ONTC could also consider more frequent bus services between the two cities. It seems to me that there are more commuters than truckers along this route. In terms of frequency, I'd suggest something like this:

Weekdays:
Every 30 minutes between 5 a.m. and 6 a.m. and between 6 p.m. and 7 p.m.;
Every 20 minutes between 6 a.m. and 9 a.m. and between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m.;
Every 60 minutes otherwise, with the last bus leaving both cities at 11 p.m.

Weekends:
Every 60 minutes from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m.

Thoughts?

That's more akin to something you'd see in the GTA with GO Transit/Greyhound. It's overkill for here.

2-3X roundtrips daily, maybe.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by wave46

The Northlander was silly, since it just competed with Ontario Northland's bus service on the same route, but using more a more expensive method. It too did not hit the major cities of the region, except North Bay. That left Timmins, the Sault and Sudbury on the sidelines.

Buses are more flexible, cheaper to run and can provide a broader network per dollar than train lines. Yes, for a couple of days a year they can be sidelined by highway closures, but that's life in Canada and not worth spending big money for minimal improvement in service.

The Northlander did used too go to Timmins. Someone else can tell why it left. It did not compete with the bus as the people who ride each are different clientele that are now stuck with one option. This would be akin to saying the GO train competes with the GO bus.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

If twinning 17 between Sudbury and North Bay is deemed excessive too, perhaps ONTC could also consider more frequent bus services between the two cities. It seems to me that there are more commuters than truckers along this route. In terms of frequency, I'd suggest something like this:

Weekdays:
Every 30 minutes between 5 a.m. and 6 a.m. and between 6 p.m. and 7 p.m.;
Every 20 minutes between 6 a.m. and 9 a.m. and between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m.;
Every 60 minutes otherwise, with the last bus leaving both cities at 11 p.m.

Weekends:
Every 60 minutes from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by wave46

That's more akin to something you'd see in the GTA with GO Transit/Greyhound. It's overkill for here.

2-3X roundtrips daily, maybe.

I'd agree it is too much, but I would suggest closer to 5x a day. Currently, one trip a day to Cochrane is a little too much.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I'd agree it is too much, but I would suggest closer to 5x a day. Currently, one trip a day to Cochrane is a little too much.

5x sounds optimal.

But one trip a day to Chchrane is a little too many? If that's taken out too, people who don't have cars and need to go down will have to hitchhike, bike or walk all the way. This sounds like Samuel de Champlain 2.0.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

5x sounds optimal.

But one trip a day to Chchrane is a little too many? If that's taken out too, people who don't have cars and need to go down will have to hitchhike, bike or walk all the way. This sounds like Samuel de Champlain 2.0.

One trip a day is too little.

[Ottawaresident]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

One trip a day is too little.

One trip a day for trains or bus?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

One trip a day for trains or bus?

Bus. The train was taken out in 2012. The current provincial government promised to reinstate it, but who know what's gonna happen.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

One trip a day for trains or bus?

One trip a day for a train would be great. One trip by bus is too little.

[Ottawaresident]

These discussions should be moved to http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=237478

[Dengler Avenue]

It just occurred to me that the name Deux-Rivières has to be kept in its French form to avoid confusion with Deep & Chalk Rivers. I’m bringing this up because elsewhere in the forum (either the French thread in Canadian forum or OTT LRT Stage 2 Station Names) we were talking about how things got translated and how people gravitate towards the official ones.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It just occurred to me that the name Deux-Rivières has to be kept in its French form to avoid confusion with Deep & Chalk Rivers. I’m bringing this up because elsewhere in the forum (either the French thread in Canadian forum or OTT LRT Stage 2 Station Names) we were talking about how things got translated and how people gravitate towards the official ones.

Deux-Rivières is 2 rivers in English. Don't see the point.

[Dengler Avenue]

I don’t know how often people just lump Deep River and Chalk River together (because they’re so close to each other) and collectively call them 2 rivers. If they do it often, that’s where (I think) confusion will arise.