LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[Temperance]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

True. But Molson barely qualifies as beer

I would rather see a microbrewery/brewpub than some Molson's museum. Just terrible beer (I'm spoiled with Belgian beers in Amsterdam).

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I'm not exactly totally enamoured with Devcore's proposal either, but if I were to boil down the approach of both plans it would be in what they truly offer to the public.

Melnyk's plan hinges mainly on people going to paid events — Sens games and concerts at the arena, buying at the shops and restaurants, and I would imagine even use of the "Abilities Centre" would be limited by your ability to pay a user fee. Just hanging out by the Aqueduct is OK, but if one has less of a purpose if they're not there to eat or shop, one gets reduced to being a lurker.

Devcore's plan on the other hand is centred on its "Canadensis Walk" which is basically free botanical/ornamental gardens that people would visit without needing any other purpose. Even having a permanent bandshell is such a boon to more spontaneous events to this city, where it takes a good week of set-up and take down in the so-called event parks and months of logistics. It would be awesome to have a place where you can literally flick a switch and the sound and lighting systems are already in place. It's chockfull of interesting spaces from the beach to the museums and the amusements that cater to different moods, whether quiet and passive or noisy and active. In this sense of engaging the public I think it's a better starting point, it might just need some of its bones readjusted

I don't see a plan in what Devcore is proposing that is anymore 'public' than Melnyk's. Both have open space for people to do whatever and both make reference to space for a public library. The museums, aquariums and wind tunnels in Devcore's plan are not going to be opened for people to visit for free. I have heard criticisms from people in the skate community that Spin is traditionally much more of an expensive facility making affordable rental difficult.

I think we are also forgetting that the war museum, holocaust memorial and firefighters memorial are already in this area or will be soon. I don't think Devcores plan of adding another 40 museums will make Lebreton a very vibrant, urban district.

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

I don't think Devcores plan of adding another 40 museums will make Lebreton a very vibrant, urban district.

*5 museums, not 40. But yea I agree it's too much but it's better than Rendez-vous' nothing. I'd really like to keep the aquarium though, and the canadensis walk, which is not a museum, but is a super genious idea.

[lrt's friend]

Unfortunately, life isn't free. So attractions will cost you money, but nevertheless will attract tourists. And just remember that the arena might be the most costly place to go of all.

What we need to look at is balance. It needs to be a mixed use development to create pedestrian traffic every day. We need to attract tourists. One attraction is not going to be enough. Being significantly away from traditional downtown, we need to encourage tourists to spend the whole day in this area. We need sports fans. We need great public spaces. We need public buildings such as the Central library. The more diversity we build into the development, the more likely it will be lively.

Let's face it, if we expect most everything to be free, where is the incentive to invest in it? We end up with more bland green space.

[Stevenson]

I think the devcore reputation took a serious hit by putting the Molson name on their brewseum without their permissson. That is unacceptable IMO. Also it looks lie the ripleys name and farm boy are not sure things at all

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Darwin's initial opinions actually give points TO DevCore for NOT covering the LRT.

Darwin has this weird idea that underground transit discriminates against transit users by not letting them look outside. It's a very bizarre opinion that I can't agree with, in spite of the fact that I generally agree with Darwin.

I know. A lot of the time, he raises good points. All in all, he seems to prefer the Rendez-Vous proposal for the right reasons, but seems frustrated with he Confederation Line burial. Gives them points for connectivity by incorporating a street grid, but wants to keep the divisive above ground rail line?

Fact is, the line is at the lowest point (save the aqueduct of course) of the Flats, partially in a trench if I'm not mistaken, and in either case, views will be mostly, if not totally, blocked by buildings. No reason not to bury it.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

LeBreton Flats proponents insist their plans are (mostly) solid

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 27, 2016 | Last Updated: January 27, 2016 9:44 PM EST



How likely is it that all the appealing elements in the multibillion-dollar proposals put forward this week for LeBreton Flats will actually materialize?

The Citizen put that question to both of the competing teams Wednesday. One – Devcore, Canderel DLS Group – responded in some detail. The other – RendezVous LeBreton – provided more cautious, general answers, cowed by the National Capital Commission’s prohibition on revealing financing details.

But both effectively said there’s nothing to worry about – their financial plans are solid.

Daniel Peritz, a spokesman for the Devcore, Canderel DLS Group, said its plan to build the Canadensis Walk – a four-season linear park – at an early stage of its LeBreton Re-Imagined development demonstrates its commitment to the project.

The Canadensis Walk “lays the groundwork for our entire plan,” Peritz said. Other public realm elements, including a high-tech bandshell, Canada Square and Canada Circle, are also in the plan’s initial phase.

Building those elements, coupled with the substantial costs of decontaminating the LeBreton land, “is a huge financial commitment for our partnership,” Peritz said. “We’re making the commitment up front, so we have to see it through and we have to make sure it’s successful.”

Devore, Canderel DLS already has builders lined up for 1,100 residential units and plans for 1.1-million square feet of office space in LeBreton Re-Imagined’s first phase. But the revenues from those early developments will be insufficient to cover the public realm costs, Peritz said.

“It doesn’t get us to net zero. That’s why it’s very important for us to have the ability to finish the project, because a massive amount of investment up front really only starts to become viable as we progress through the first phase and into the second phase.”

The LeBreton Re-Imagined plan comes with a multitude of bells and whistles, but Peritz said several of the attractions included in the project’s initial phase would be privately financed, including the Ripley’s Aquarium, the World Automotive Experience, Spin, a bike and BMX indoor park, and Sky Ventures, an indoor parachuting experience.

The Canadian Communications Centre, billed as Canada’s first multimedia museum, would be subsidized by income from media and communications companies, which will rent space in the building, Peritz said.

“We’re not going to say that we have full signed agreements, but we’ve certainly had discussions with them,” Peritz said.

The LeBreton Re-Imagined proposal also includes things like a YMCA, a Farm Boy store and a French-language elementary school. In each case, Devcore Canderel DLS has strong expressions of interest from the relevant parties, Peritz said.

“We’ve gone out and we’ve investigated and we’ve discussed to ensure that we have serious people at the table,” he said. “They all are waiting for us to come back and say, ‘We won.'”

Things get a bit sketchier when it comes to elements in LeBreton Re-Imagined’s second phase. While everyone thinks a planetarium is a dandy idea, for example, financing is yet to be determined.

“I won’t profess that we have gotten too far on that yet,” Peritz admitted. His group has examined the model used by the planetarium in Montreal, sponsored by Rio Tinto Alcan. “We think that’s an exceptional model, and we think there’s a place for it on our site.”

Other second-phase elements, such as a proposed Science and Innovation Pavilion and other “activity pavilions” similar to Spin and Sky Ventures, are more in the realm of possibilities than solid commitments at this stage.

The arena in the group’s plan probably needs the Ottawa Senators as an anchor tenant to be fully viable – a major reason why, at least for now, it’s in the project’s third and final stage.

Much will depend on the state of the residential and office markets going forward, since the “dominant portion” of the revenue LeBreton Re-Imagined is expected to generate will come from those mixed-use developments, Peritz said.

Meanwhile, the RendezVous LeBreton group, which includes Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk, has “a complete private sector solution” for its IllumiNation LeBreton project, said spokesman Graham Bird.

Its financial partners include the Ontario Pension Trust, the Canadian Real Estate Investment Trust and Brookfield Asset Management, which is responsible for the planned 1.5-million square feet of office space.

“They come with great investment capacity and tremendous capability and deep, deep, deep pockets,” Bird said. “They signed on because of the credibility, completeness and thoroughness of what we’re up to.”

The RendezVous LeBreton team includes John Ruddy’s Trinity Development Group, Crescent Hotels, builders Mattamy, Monarch and Brigil, construction and development firm Morley Hoppner and Windmill, the developer of the adjacent Zibi project.

“They’re all very successful local, national and international companies,” Bird said. All are “very confident” that RendezVous LeBreton can make its plan happen, he said. “In fact, some of them think we’re a little too conservative.”

Nicholas Galletti, a spokesman for the NCC, said the terms of the LeBreton competition clearly state that the main public anchor uses in the proposals “must be in the initial phase of development and viable from a range of perspectives.”

Demonstrating the viability of other components is also important and the business case should provide evidence that these elements will be successful, he said.

All that will be closely considered when a committee evaluates the two proposals and makes a recommendation to the NCC’s board this spring, Galletti said.

[email protected]
twitter.com/ButlerDon



PARTNERS IN REALITY

The two proposals for the redevelopment of LeBreton Flats unveiled visions that include specific tenants and partners. Here’s what they say about the proposals.

Ability Centre Ottawa, IllumiNation

“We are excited about this partnership with the Ottawa Senators and so grateful for their commitment to accessible programs for people with and without disabilities,” said Emily Glossop, chair of the Abilities Centre Ottawa board of directors in a statement. “Like the first and now proven Abilities Centre in Whitby, the ACO will follow their successful template which is acknowledged as an international centre of excellence for people of all ages, and all abilities.”

Centretown Citizens Ottawa Corporation, IllumiNation

The non-profit housing organization whose stated mission is “to create, maintain and promote housing for low and moderate income people,” is one of the partners in the RendezVouz LeBreton, which is behind the IllumiNation vision, and will help the development group – which is led by the Senators – make 25 per cent of the units plans for the site affordable housing.

Ripley’s Aquarium, LeBreton Re-Imagined

“Ripley’s is aware of the project and the market potential, and are very excited to be participating with the Devcore, Canderel and DLS group, which we think has a superior proposal for the redevelopment,” Darren Loblaw, chief financial officer for Ripley Entertainment Inc. said in an email.

YMCA-YWCA, LeBreton Re-Imagined

“We are thrilled for an opportunity to be considered for such a visionary plan, and look forward to exploring how the Y can utilize our experience in building healthy communities to contribute to the vibrancy of the project,” said a statement on the YMCA-YWCA website.

Farm Boy, LeBreton Re-Imagined

“We have an offer in on the site. We figure it is going to be high-traffic. We get a lot of customer requests for a Farm Boy downtown,” said Jeff York, chief executive of Farm Boy. “We want to be there.”

Conseil des écoles publiques de l’Est de l’Ontario, LeBreton Re-Imagined

Spokeswoman Corinne Labelle confirmed in an email the school board is “effectively in discussions” to build a new school at LeBreton Flats.

Andrew Seymour

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...reton-finances

This article is why Canadensis/Le Breton Re-Imagined can't win. Like, literally. The majority of their novelty pie-in-the-sky, novelty projects are purely speculative. Proposals that require sponsorships and partners that are unwilling (Senators) or never agreed (Molson) to work with them.

Even their plans show a couple of "future pavilions". They had space left and ran out of ideas, after they had already included everything that came up in their brainstorming session apparently, so they added a couple buildings. We'll figure it out later I guess, just like the partnership with the Sens, the Planatarium, the Brew Museum...

The NCC asked for realistic, fully planned out and costed out proposals. Only one team delivered.


I was planning on posting my own detailed opinions of both proposals, but a lot has already been touched by many of you.

Rendez-Vous:

Positive - more urban, more jobs and population downtown, better integration with the surrounding area and itself, street grid, burying the Confederation Line, addition of a significant number of affordable housing units (25%), arena design and location, takes full advantage of aqueduct.

Negative - lacks one or two public institution(s)/attraction(s), other than the arena and library (doesn't matter because the City and Archives will design and built where they want) are the only two stand out buildings, lacks a few stand out, possibly slightly taller buildings. Thinking hotel next to the arena, maybe the building on Booth and Albert.

Re-Imagined:

Positive-ish - All of their proposed pavillions on their own are interesting and worth a closer look, but cramming everything on one site is not good urban planning.

Negative - way too touristy, wind-swept plazas, dead after 5 pm, no connectivity between public and mixed use, rail line and centenary wires exposed, creating unsightly division, not much done with aqueduct.

Here's a comparison raised by Darwin to show how well the relationship of the proposal and their surroundings. Rendez-Vous went with podiums and significant set backs on Albert, ensuring a better experience from a human scale. Also introduces a better transition between the medium density area to the south and the high density Flats. Sorry for the size.



While Devecore just has a wall of high-rises.



http://www.westsideaction.com/

[rocketphish]

Ruddy pitches RendezVous LeBreton plan

Don Butler, Ottawa Sun
First posted: Friday, January 29, 2016 05:40 PM EST | Updated: Friday, January 29, 2016 09:32 PM EST

RendezVous LeBreton’s $3.5 billion plan could reap big rewards for investors — if the group can tap into existing government incentive programs, says John Ruddy, a key partner and president and CEO of Trinity Developments.

Ruddy said his group would apply for incentives offered by the City of Ottawa to encourage redevelopment of derelict “brownfields,” for example, as well as reduced development charges for projects with affordable housing.

The incentives would help pay for the 11 parks, squares, promenades and other public spaces in RendezVous LeBreton’s plan, Ruddy said. “If those programs didn’t exist, this property won’t be developed, plain and simple.”

Ruddy challenged those who describe those incentives as public money. “They’re not cutting us a cheque,” he said. “This property has laid there barren for 55 years,” he pointed out, generating no income for anyone.

Along with Senators Sports & Entertainment, Trinity is master developer of the IllumiNation LeBreton proposal, which includes an arena, a dual-rink Sensplex and Abilities Centre, and a restored heritage aqueduct.

It was Ruddy’s job to secure financial partners for the project. His first choice, he said, was Brookfield — “probably the largest real estate company in the world” — which will focus mainly on IllumiNation LeBreton’s office component.

One key question is the market value of the 21.6-hectare LeBreton site, which both RendezVous LeBreton and its competitor, Devcore Canderel DCL Group, would like to purchase. Much of it is heavily contaminated and would cost an estimated $170 million to clean up.

After cleanup, its value would be affected by the land’s “entitlements” — its permitted uses and densities.
RendezVous LeBreton has done an appraisal of the land value, based on the uses proposed in its plan.

“But if we don’t get those entitlements, then the value reduces,” Ruddy said.

[email protected]
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/01/29/...-lebreton-plan

[mykl]

You people post a lot when I'm away during the day. I tried to break down all my thoughts from the last few pages:

jeremy__haak : Bad example, since the entire world built shit for 2000, but you know exactly what i mean.

daus: Cirque du Soleil is currently hemorraging money. And there is no mention that they will be setting up shop in Ottawa just because their owner is involved. I also don't know why every keeps bashing Lansdowne... my number trips to the site has skyrocketed since it was rebuilt. In fact, its basically the only reason I end up frequenting businesses in the Glebe. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I don't understand why everyone is so focused on tourism. Our hotels have high rates because they are already heavily booked throughout the year. If anything, you should all be clamouring for more hotels. How about creating something good for the citizens of Ottawa who want to use this area on a regular basis, and not so much the strangers who might come here for 3 days instead of 2. When people are asked by their families and friends what Ottawa was like, do you want their answer to be "Ottawa is one neighbourhood full of things to do and I didn't see anything else"?

Everyone talks about how Rendezvous has nothing but an arena. Tell that to the many people who would give anything to benefit from the Abilities Centre. I'd rather see a place that can enrich citizens lives over a tourist attraction any day. And people in Ottawa are constantly begging for animated waterways and cafés along the canal. Well unless everyone wants to keep going to the Canal Ritz for 100 years, lets get the Rendezvous aqueduct plan in motion. Its small, but its by the water.

I also want to talk about the Canadensis Walk. First of all, if you want to feel like you're in all of Canada's ecozones at once, swing by the Museum of Nature's western lawn this summer. If you want to know why we can't already see 200 plant species from across Canada in Ottawa, its because they don't all grow in Ottawa. So you'll get a year or two of 200 species along the walk, and slowly things will die, get replaced, and eventually you'll end up with the plants from other regions that can actually grow here.

Finally, I don't understand why people think Lebreton is so far away from everything. Too far from downtown, too far from the LRT stations. The people begging for less roads seem to be the same people who don't walk anywhere.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by mykl

I don't understand why everyone is so focused on tourism. Our hotels have high rates because they are already heavily booked throughout the year. If anything, you should all be clamouring for more hotels. How about creating something good for the citizens of Ottawa who want to use this area on a regular basis, and not so much the strangers who might come here for 3 days instead of 2. When people are asked by their families and friends what Ottawa was like, do you want their answer to be "Ottawa is one neighbourhood full of things to do and I didn't see anything else"?

Everyone talks about how Rendezvous has nothing but an arena. Tell that to the many people who would give anything to benefit from the Abilities Centre. I'd rather see a place that can enrich citizens lives over a tourist attraction any day. And people in Ottawa are constantly begging for animated waterways and cafés along the canal. Well unless everyone wants to keep going to the Canal Ritz for 100 years, lets get the Rendezvous aqueduct plan in motion. Its small, but its by the water.

I also want to talk about the Canadensis Walk. First of all, if you want to feel like you're in all of Canada's ecozones at once, swing by the Museum of Nature's western lawn this summer. If you want to know why we can't already see 200 plant species from across Canada in Ottawa, its because they don't all grow in Ottawa. So you'll get a year or two of 200 species along the walk, and slowly things will die, get replaced, and eventually you'll end up with the plants from other regions that can actually grow here.

Finally, I don't understand why people think Lebreton is so far away from everything. Too far from downtown, too far from the LRT stations. The people begging for less roads seem to be the same people who don't walk anywhere.

Well said. The Rendez-Vous group is focused on improving the lives of local citizens and creating an urban experience, not attract tourists with a bunch of gimmicky junk.

Speaking of tourism; I for one go to Montreal for the urban experience, walk around the downtown core (Downtown, Old Montreal, Le Plateau...), enjoy my suroundings, eat out at a restaurant. I don't visit the Olympic Park. Saw it when I was 10, might go back if I ever have kids myself. Otherwise, I'm good for life.

Good points on Canadensis; plants that grow in Ottawa grow in Ottawa. Plants that grow in Vancouver, might not make it in Ottawa. Even if they did, we probably wouldn't be able to identify which is which until we read the signs.

Plus, the Canadensis walk would be between a railway that is in a trench (anyone visit Tunney's to see the nationally significant trench?) or running on the surface (yes, this could actually kill children, unless we place an unsightly electrified 8 foot chain-link fence) and an aqueduct that is for the most part, under-utilized in the Devecore plan.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Ruddy pitches RendezVous LeBreton plan

Don Butler, Ottawa Sun
First posted: Friday, January 29, 2016 05:40 PM EST | Updated: Friday, January 29, 2016 09:32 PM EST

[email protected]
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/01/29/...-lebreton-plan

Pic from the article. That's why I love Menlnyk's plan. It feels like downtown. I would go there any day.

[enrigue8]

Honestly, i prefer the Re-Imagined project to the other.
I prefer it because its architecture is better.Every city have a beautiful architecture and illumination has an ordinary one . And Re-Imagined will be better for economy because there will be more attractions .More attractions mean more tourists and more tourists mean more jobs .And it will be Ottawa new landmark. As a capital,Ottawa must be modern and have attractions.Ottawa cant be a boring suburb forever.
Come on Ottawa must be like a other G7 capital.
I really hope committee will quickly approve this project.
Please ottawan prove you love Ottawa .

[cityguy]

As someone who lives with 200 meters of Lebreton ,the devcore proposal has the most to offer me.Preston street would end at albert,a farm boy and a Ymca would add more to my quality of life.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Pic from the article. That's why I love Menlnyk's plan. It feels like downtown. I would go there any day.

Really? you'd go there any day?

What if the day in question was one where there was no event happening at the arena, you don't feel like shopping or eating (or can't afford the probably high prices of the area), and don't want to lie in a park..?

What exactly would you do in that situation?

My point is, the proposals are reasonably similar in many aspects. Both promise open green space, an arena, a public library, living space, restaurants and shopping.

The Devcore bid just offers more. A slew of museums and interesting attractions which might not appeal to you right here right now, but would appeal to somebody somewhere always. There's nothing in the Rendez-Vous proposal that isn't also in the Devcore bid...seriously name me one thing that isn't equivalent (okay maybe the tiny strip of land around the aqueduct) in Devcore's.

I live here and I much much prefer the look and feel of the Devcore proposal. There's nothing wrong with a few attractions that are targeted at tourists (OTTAWA LACKS THIS). No I won't use these things everyday; but i'll use them a few times for sure. I'll be coming to the site because of its variety.

All Rendez-vous promises us is a nice arena, some expensive restaurants, and overpriced condos that 90% of people in Ottawa won't ever be able to touch with a thirty foot pole anyways.

Why would I ever spend any great amount of time in such a place?

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Ed wrote

All Rendez-vous promises us is a nice arena, some expensive restaurants, and overpriced condos that 90% of people in Ottawa won't ever be able to touch with a thirty foot pole anyways.

In all fairness ,Rendez-vous does promise a substantial affordable housing component with Centretown Citizens Ottawa Corporation as a partner. It also has the Abilities Center which will serve a lot of disabled people. Then there is Canada House which seems to be overlooked in the discussion so far.
The Sensplex will also bring a lot of people into the area seven days a week.

Canada House 
• Canada House will serve as a primary gathering place for
visiting members of the Canadian military and will provide
short- and long-term subsidized accommodations for
the broader military family in a welcoming, home-like
environment and a centralized location for specialized
transitional counselling, medical care, and rehab support
services to meet the unique needs of our country’s military
families.

Affordable housing, Ability Centre, Canada House, has earned the Rendezvous proposal the endorsement of the United Way of Ottawa.

RV has also earned the endorsement of the Ottawa Chamber of Commerce and the Ontario Chamber of Commerce--perhaps a little too quickly.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by mykl

I don't understand why everyone is so focused on tourism. Our hotels have high rates because they are already heavily booked throughout the year. If anything, you should all be clamouring for more hotels. How about creating something good for the citizens of Ottawa who want to use this area on a regular basis, and not so much the strangers who might come here for 3 days instead of 2.

People are focused on tourism because this is a rare opportunity to expand Ottawa's limited tourist core. As far as "creating something good for the citizens of Ottawa", you can do that almost anywhere in the city. The Abilities Centre is probably better in a place that has ample free parking since many people with physical challenges arrive in special vehicles. Heck, you could take the Rendezvous plan and apply it to the sea of parking lots around the existing CTC, dig an aqueduct to the Carp River and extend the LRT all the way out there and it would still be cheaper than doing it at LeBreton. What would be missing of course would be the tourist draw of downtown Ottawa.

If all visitors would stay 3 days instead of 2, that would be an increase in tourism of 50%.

[Dundas]

How come there's no ferris wheel?

[Aylmer]

Or roller coaster?

[Mr.Flintstone]

Is it me or does the rendezVous plan seem to have better backers then Devcore? Yes Devcore has 2 billionaire, who haven't even shown their faces but when I look at the list of partners RendezVous has, looks like they have the upper hand. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe Ottawa needs intensification. That why I prefer the rendez vous proposal. If we want more people walking around downtown. We need people to live in the surrounding area. I view it like Innes Rd in Orleans, every restaurant is/looks busy why cause it close to home and convenient. Having all these attraction is nice but unless we people actually live there and build an integrated community. I guarantee it will look empty.
I also believe the RendezVous plan will help communities and business in the surrounding area more than the devcore.

I don't understand the hate toward lansdowne. I've visited lansdowne many times since all the changes than I've been to a museum in the last 10 years. As someone that has done volunteer work at a museum. They will mostly be busy for summer camps,for school field trips, Canada day, Special dinners and if their lucky festivals. With that said, the only museum from the Devcore proposal I like is the Science and innovation/planetarium. I think this would help push NCC to spare the current science and tech museum from it misery.

After seeing the Devcore model at school



I just see it as a wide open space with couple attraction, arena and wall of building separating the current community.

[jt-mtl]

To tell you the truth... I really don't care which project gets chosen. As long as the NIMBYs don't delay it. Keep Clive Doucette and the Friends of Landsdowne far away from this project.

JT