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  #1021  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 2:52 PM
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Anyone and everyone interested in seeing this very important project come to fruition is urged to attend today's Philadelphia Planning Commission meeting today at the Friends Select School on 17th and the Parkway at 1:00 P.M. Please arrive earlier if possible for better seating as this meeting is likely to be standing room only. This will also give you a chance to meet the folks behind the project and perhaps see new rendering.

Please get there early and make your voices heard.
     
     
  #1022  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 6:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Swinefeld View Post
Anyone and everyone interested in seeing this very important project come to fruition is urged to attend today's Philadelphia Planning Commission meeting today at the Friends Select School on 17th and the Parkway at 1:00 P.M. Please arrive earlier if possible for better seating as this meeting is likely to be standing room only. This will also give you a chance to meet the folks behind the project and perhaps see new rendering.

Please get there early and make your voices heard.
for those of us unable to attend, please provide a detailed summary of the proceedings.
thanks.
     
     
  #1023  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 8:32 PM
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I was there today but only had an hour for lunch (ended up taking an hour and a half) so I totally missed out on the actual ACC discussion. Really bummed it started late and that I came for the wrong part. There were probably 150-200 people I’m guessing. Most people seemed to be in support as they were handing out signs saying “BUILD IT” as you entered (and a lot of people were holding those signs). Although I couldn’t stay for the ACC discussion, I did get to see very interesting presentation on Station Square. This was a proposal for a new “square” and retooling of the area in between 30th street station and the post office annex. It was beautiful and would be great if we could get that whole area fixed up since so many tourists experience that part of Philly first and last on their trip. I couldn’t find any information about it on the web but it will be a welcome addition that I’m sure anyone would support. Part of this project would be a large new iconic piece of artwork (some 50-100 feet tall) so that people from miles away could see it as a new landmark.

I also saw the presentation on the Boyd Theatre project. It’s a very ambitious project as well and stretches almost a whole city block. One of the cooler parts is the restaurant that is directly adjacent to the actual stage on the Boyd. When there aren’t any shows or conferences in the theatre area, they will seat tables on and around the stage in what has to be an amazing visual space to dine in. The project is so large and ambitious that I worry it will be a long time before it comes to fruition, especially with the economy tanking like it is. This has got to be a $500M+ project given the ever rising construction costs.

Here are a couple pics but I’m really looking forward to hearing from people who actually made the whole meeting.




     
     
  #1024  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 9:44 PM
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Glad to hear it, Linc. I really got a bum deal as my class was cancelled last week and next week, but note, not this week. Go figure.
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  #1025  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 10:27 PM
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They voted yes to have it rezoned. Next step is off to City Council for approval and then back to PCPC for final authorization I believe, (that's when it get's messy with traffic studies and sidewalk widths and whatnot. Today that was addressed, but the chairman said todays meeting really wasn't meant to address those issues).


There really wasn't any fireworks to speak off. It was pretty boring. And long.
     
     
  #1026  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 11:04 PM
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Boring, long, but worth it. I know more than I ever wanted to about the zoning code now.
     
     
  #1027  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 11:23 PM
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Boy, that meeting sucked balls. Overly loooooong with microphone problems and too much boring boilerplate (mostly from the opposition). But it was good to see the project move on to the next phase, which is a date with the ZBA on December 3rd to get the variance it needs to build at its proposed height. There seemed to be some other sticking points like the size and location of loading docks, traffic flow, density and such. But it looks like Mr. Miller et al are holding all the cards and the blue hairs at Kennedy House are grasping at dwindling straws.

There was a really nice video presentation of about four minutes in length near the end of the meeting. Basically it was a flyby animation of a finished ACC. Very nice. Almost worth the wait.

Late1, please post the pics you took. I think he got some good shots.
     
     
  #1028  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 11:30 PM
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PCPC Unanimously Recommends ACC's Re-zoning Ordinance to City Council for Final Approval

I was there as well, just got back and my brain is fried...serious headache. I took extensive notes (virtually minutes) and I'll try to summarize them here in a bit. My camera was sadly out of batteries so I wasn't able to snap pictures of the new renderings, but hopefully Swinefeld was on top of that. I was able to speak with members of Garrett Miller's team about the project and I have some encouraging things to tell you. I'm going to eat dinner now, but later tonight I will summarize whatever is not mentioned on here between now and then.

Proponents outnumbered opponents at one point by my estimation 2 to 1, then at the beginning of testimony it was pretty even, and by the end of testimony, it was almost all proponents. I'll speak more to that later, but congratulations everyone.
     
     
  #1029  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 12:42 AM
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Another needed and positive step towards Supppa Tall.
     
     
  #1030  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 2:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ninjawho View Post
They voted yes to have it rezoned. Next step is off to City Council for approval and then back to PCPC for final authorization I believe, (that's when it get's messy with traffic studies and sidewalk widths and whatnot. Today that was addressed, but the chairman said todays meeting really wasn't meant to address those issues).


There really wasn't any fireworks to speak off. It was pretty boring. And long.
My apologies for being a noob....but what do you mean when you say "they voted yes to have it rezoned"??
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  #1031  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 2:50 AM
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well Councilman Clarke introduced legislation this past summer that put the height restriction at 125 feet. It also had to do with the Barnes Tower Fiasco...

so this hearing was to vote on recommendation if they should change the zoning to allow for ACC. Basically C5, (the highest Commercial zoning) and then the extras in height based on the special things in the project. Like, theres a formula, and because ACC has say, the concourse, you're allowed to add more to the height max...

stuff like that.
     
     
  #1032  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 3:04 AM
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Fox29 did its usual terrible job of covering this story. Click this link to see their video coverage. Note that they show a shot of the wrong lot and three of the four people they interview are AGAINST the tower. Un-fucking-believable.



PHILADELPHIA -- Plans for a billion-dollar building that would be Center City's tallest skyscraper went before the city's planning commission Tuesday.

Business owners and residents in the area offered differing views of the 1,500-foot tower proposed for 18th and Arch streets.

Some said it's about money and jobs. Others said it's the wrong location at the wrong time, Fox 29's Shawnette Wilson reported.

Joe Beller roused the room Tuesday when he spoke out against where the developer wants to construct the American Commerce Center.

"It's a beautiful thing. I would love to see a building like that somewhere in Philadelphia. That's not the spot," Beller said. "… It's the question of how much can you fit into it. It's a small block from Cuthbert to Arch Street."

A group of women who live in the Kennedy House across from the site said it would block their view of the Benjamin Franklin Parkway.

"It would take away all my light. I will have no light in my apartment," said one woman.

Another woman said, "I think that the traffic is a huge problem because the traffic on 18th and 19th Streets is already a problem at rush hour. It's terrible."

Developers said the skyscraper would be a combination of offices, retail and entertainment. It would have open green space, restrooms, parking and access to mass transportation. It would all be for public use. The development also features a concourse with a garden to connect it to neighboring facilities.

Some business owners along with some empty-nesters and young professionals support it.

"And I think those types of people, which are really building the population of Philadelphia, want these kinds of projects," said one business owner. "It's not a build it and sell it. It's a build it and make it happen."
     
     
  #1033  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 4:29 AM
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Nice to meet Ninja today and see Swiney again. Where were you other guys hiding?

Swiney, sorry to say my photos didn't turn out so well - I guess using the maximum zoom in the dark wasn't such a great idea. Thank god they're huge (click to enlarge):



Since I didn't shoot renderings I recognized as having already been posted here on SSP, most of the pics I snapped were actually of the proposed Boyd Tower; I'll post those in the Philly Development thread...
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  #1034  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 4:36 AM
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I wasn't hiding, I just got there at around 11:30/45 and had to be shipped out again at which point I got to talking to this guy and we ended up sitting together. (I was hoping he was one of you guys, but he was a planner so I wanted to pick his brain.) I didn't know we were meeting anywhere; I was hoping to run into some of you guys today but lots of people had left by the end and I needed to get back afterward so I couldn't really hang around. We'll have to plan ahead more next time.
     
     
  #1035  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 5:07 AM
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I didn't know anybody either, so I just sat in the next to the last row, aisle seat on the left. I did end up talking a little to Alan Greenberger's wife who sat next to me.
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  #1036  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 5:18 AM
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Here's an article from PlanPhilly.com on the ACC's progress as a result of today's Philadelphia City Planning Commission meeting.

ACC Height, Density Right for PCPC
Nov. 18
By Thomas J. Walsh
For PlanPhilly

The 20-somethings at the door didn’t seem as if they were being paid, but one couldn’t help but do a double-take. It’s not every day that you see YIMBYs – Yes-In-My-Back-Yard folks - handing out professionally printed posters. It was enough to make one jittery that Election Day was not over after all.

“Build it!” the posters scream. “We support ACC.”

The ACC of their desire is, of course, the American Commerce Center, the 2.2 million square-foot, $1.1 billion, 1,500-foot-high, behemoth, mixed-use, would-be tower slated for 18th and Arch streets. Developers for the project were again on the agenda for Tuesday’s monthly meeting of the Philadelphia City Planning Commission, and again they dominated the afternoon. Approval was sought for a zoning re-mapping ordinance (C4 to C5) and other amendments such as an exception to special height limits of the Benjamin Franklin Parkway controls.

Of course, NIMBYs were in the house, too. In fact, the house was a specially chosen one to deal with the expected ACC-inspired crowd: the auditorium of the Friends Select School, not far from the Planning Commission’s normal monthly meeting location atop One Parkway. Because of the amount of public comment at previous meetings, Deputy Mayor Andrew Altman limited Tuesday’s comments to two minutes. Some two dozen people signed up to speak.

“We did have a hearing before, where we heard extensive testimony,” Altman said.

The developers and architects were given as much time as they needed for full presentations, updated a bit, and they took it, with several sets of slides, a healthy amount of public lobbying and a presentation of the project’s economic benefits by a consultant, ultimately stretching the meeting toward dusk (it started shortly after 1 p.m.). There was a presentation on the environmental wonders to be employed by the building, and a demonstration of parking and traffic issues and studies.

There were good points to be made on both sides of the issue, but a big result of the ponderous, mostly redundant information sessions from the architects was a slow filtering out of the assembled public, many of whom might have had other things to attend to – such as, say, jobs.

“Really the fundamental question before us today” relates to the strict request for re-zoning, the density, the trajectory of the central business district and the incentives for the public, Altman said.

“The second set of questions get more into the specifics of the plan of development” – the plazas, the loading docks and the impact studies. “I think those, we can all deliberate on when it comes back to us. I don’t think we have to make our decision based on whether we believe all of those studies are adequate or we have to accept all the conclusions of those studies.

“There’s going to be another time to do that with the plan of development, and more conversation. As you heard many people say, ‘This is an ongoing conversation with the members of the community.’ So I think we should note those.”

Regarding the benefits, Altman said his impressions were that PCPC director Greenberger and the staff did a “very good analysis as to where the [central business district] is headed, that it isn’t just Market Street and JFK ... In fact the reality is that the ACC “is appropriate for more density and greater height and can handle this kind of development as the core of Philadelphia looks to its future.”

He told Greenberger he did a very good job on the re-zoning recommendation, and that the series of bonuses that accompany the C5 re-designation are mostly appropriate, but that if certain aspects of the design are buttonholed for a while – like the verification for LEED certification and a review of the public concourse – it “does make sense to separate out.

"It’s not a huge impact, but I think if it’s going to be applied ... we should look at it applying fairly across the board to all of what would be the office core. So it could benefit this development, it could benefit other developments.

“Again, this starts a process,” Altman stressed, but the ordinance would not take effect until the plan of development was approved, and with that, “many of these details get approved. “I’m very supportive of the staff recommendation. I think there’s been a lot of work done.”

Follow-up work would include a more clear definition of the line between the central business district and residential neighborhoods, he said.

He motioned to approve the staff’s positive recommendation, and it was granted.

One way or another
Steve Mullin, the former city Commerce Director and current principal at Econsult Corp., hired to assess the development, addressed property values surrounding the site, and the likely increased earnings, taxes and economic activity. “One thing we’ve noticed with Comcast and the Cira Centre,” he said, is that office-users have moved up in terms of quality, while low-end office space was converted into apartments or condominiums over the past decade.

“I know one thing – 1.5 million square feet of office space will be built in this area, in this time frame,” Mullin said. “Why not here,” instead of points north of Bensalem or way out west in Chester County? Acknowledging the current credit crisis that is freezing any kind of commercial real estate development from Boston to Los Angeles, Mullin said that the building is at least four years away.

“Timing could well be perfect,” he said, especially since it meets not only local needs, but national objectives – by maximizing public transportation, minimizing the use of cars, investing in infrastructure (all you hear right now is “Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure!” Mullin exclaimed) and the erection of an environmentally friendly office tower that is mixed-use, not closed off to the public.

Peter Kelsen, legal counsel to the developer, said the proposal was of “masterful design and an iconic piece of architecture,” and that some changes since a July presentation to the commission have been built on that. With the commission’s recommendation for zoning changes, the bill goes before City Council’s Rules Committee in early December. “Finally and perhaps most important,” Kelsen said, is that a “refined plan of development” only then would come back to the Planning Commission.

In addition to challenges posed by the Planning Commission staff to create additional substance to the concourse that would connect to Suburban Station via the new Comcast Center underground infrastructure, vertical connection to the third- and sixth-floor active public garden areas were added or improved, Kelsen said.

“Tens of millions of dollars in tax ratables” will be had during the construction period, Kelsen said, with up to 9,000 permanent jobs after that. Over its first decade, hundreds of millions in tax revenues will be the yield from the ACC alone, not to mention development that comes in its wake.

Development 101
“For cities to succeed, they need to change and they need to grow,” said Eugene Kohn, the globally respected head of the architectural firm Kohn Pedersen Fox Associates PC. He then pretty much repeated the classroom-type presentation he gave the commissioners and the assembled public a few months ago – the one that can now be categorized as the slightly patronizing one, including the bit about the Eiffel Tower originally being vehemently opposed by Parisians of the time. And how it is unimaginable that the Benjamin Franklin Parkway might never have been built. Or that City Hall changed the scale of Philadelphia. And so on.

Kohn did stress that the American Commerce Center would be essentially two buildings, dominated by office space in the main body and the hotel in the secondary leg, joined by a unique mid-level public garden suspended at about the height of Billy Penn’s hat. He said that the design was “sensitive to view corridors” in the way it is situated, a response to one of the big complaints from denizens of the adjacent Kennedy House and its neighbor, the Sterling, on John F. Kennedy Boulevard.

“This building will give a crescendo” to the other towers of the skyline, Kohn said. “It is the density that this project has” that allows amenities for the public.

Dense
“Density” was the key word. Commissioner Alan Greenberger, presiding over his first official meeting as full-time executive director, said that he had met with the developers, Logan Square neighbors and residents of the Kennedy House to navigate a “sense of where this ought to go.”

“The essential question, as the staff sees it, is about density,” Greenberger said. He said that the staff is fine with lifting the height restriction. Since plans call for the ACC’s massive spire to top out at half-again the height of the Comcast Center, that’s no small thing, since the limit for the current 18th & Arch site is less than 130 feet, a result of restrictions and setbacks from the nearby Benjamin Franklin Parkway.

As for the re-zoning from C4 to C5, the thinking is that it works, given the density of buildings on JFK that do not have not publicly accessible space, including the Kennedy and the Sterling. More important, office tower development since the late 1980s bunched north off Market Street and toward the Parkway, when it seems like the logical continuation would have been west, Greenberger said.

A reason it did not, Greenberger said, might be that a major transit station was planned for blocks just west of 18th Street. “In the view of the staff, had this whole area been subject to some sort of analysis” over the past decades (which Greenberger said it had not been), the area toward 19th and 20th streets would have been designated C-5. “That part of the ordinance makes sense to us.”

As for traffic and other issues, “Our instincts are that the developers are correct,” Greenberger said, but “further and more refined analysis” was needed on the extension of the underground concourse and certain environmental concerns. Any zoning changes granted would be contingent on a successful plan of development in the coming months.

There were assorted, minor questions from several other commissioners before the floor was finally opened to owners of dissenting opinions. Unlike the ACC builders, they were hampered by the buzzer, sounded when their mere minutes were up.

Source: http://www.planphilly.com/node/4201
     
     
  #1037  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 6:50 AM
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PCPC Unanimously Recommends ACC's Re-zoning Ordinance to City Council for Final Appr

Ok, the meeting went as follows. It began around 1:20PM, I believe, and the ACC motion was passed at 5:02PM, at which point nearly everyone left and the commission proceeded with their other...well...proceedings. You can see the full agenda here.

1) The first item on the agenda after the approval of old minutes and the executive director's update was an information-only presentation on the "Station Square Urban Design Concept" given by Bernard Cywinski of Bohlin Cywinski Jackson, an architecture, planning, and interior design firm. They have an extensive portfolio with lots of projects here in Pennsylvania, including the new Liberty Bell Center. This Station Square concept seems to be relatively new as I cannot find this project on their website. Anyway, they were hired by the city (I believe) to develop the space between the Post Office and 30th Street Station. Their proposal had a world-class appearance which is anchored by an illuminated sculpture (called a tensegrity structure) in the middle of what is now Market Street. They created a brick street between these two buildings and landscaped the areas around both building with ample pedestrian space along the 30th Street Station side. Unfortunately, when I arrived today I noticed that my camera was missing a battery (I forgot that I ran out of them the other day and had to steal one from my remote for the Phillies parade which I quickly returned to its rightful appliance upon returning home) so I wasn't able to capture any pictures of the renderings in the presentation, and I am surprised that I can't find it online. Anyway, keep your eyes out for this because it looked absolutely spectacular.

2) The next item on the agenda was another information-only presentation on the Boyd Theatre which was approved yesterday by the Historical Society for a major restoration along with new development. Winxs wrote an EXCELLENT post about it in the development thread so I won't reiterate that here. They hope to begin construction by the end of 2009.

3) And finally, the American Commerce Center.

On the Timeline for the ACC's Development and Importance of Today's Bill...
This is the official agenda wording from the agenda for today's meeting: "Bill No. 080588 - American Commerce Center (1800 Block of Arch Street) Zoning Remapping Ordinance and related amendments to the C-5 Commercial District classification of the Zoning Code and special height limits of the Benjamin Franklin Parkway Controls. (Introduced by Councilmember Clarke on June 19, 2008.)" In other words, the parcel of land that Garrett Miller - president of Hill International Real Estate Partners, owner of 1800 Arch St, and the person pictured behind his architectural model on the front page of this thread - wants to build on is currently zoned as C4 which is too small to accommodate (legally, anyway) a building as large as the ACC in terms of square footage. In order for this to be built and for the developers to sign a tenant, they need the right zoning, which needs to be upgraded to C5, even though realistically the city needs to create a new zoning category altogether like a "C6" which is something that councilwoman Natalia Olson de Savyckyj mentioned during the meeting. Secondly, there was a height restriction of 125 feet quietly imposed by Councilman Clarke this past summer for the loosely-defined Benjamin Franklin Parkway area in order to protect the Logan Square neighborhood. This, too, needs to be circumvented, although it didn't seem to be terribly concerning to most members of the council. At this meeting, the PCPC had to "recommend" to the City Council that this parcel be re-zoned from C4 to C5, and for the height restriction to be lifted. So, the next step after today's recommendation is a trip to the City Council in early December, as Swinefeld has noted, where they will vote "yay" or "nay" on these changes to the zoning code. If that is approved then these changes will be put into effect.


(Quick Aside: On Relationship Between Zoning and Securing a Tenant... This is a critical juncture in the development process. According to some of the development team members that I spoke with after the meeting (one of which was, I believe, Garrett's girlfriend), they "could sign a lease within a week" once they get that zoning approval because at this moment their hands are tied legally (I didn't really understand, but maybe someone that knows this industry better can explain. It has to do with equity and financing stuff). This was particularly encouraging to me because it sounded like they had tenants in waiting from the tone of their voice and the frustration they expressed with the process. It sounded like everything is up in the air until they get the zoning. "Everything rides on density. If they change it too much, Garrett won't be able to get the returns they investors want to see.")

Ok, so if (and hopefully when) they approve the zoning changes, the development team will go back to the planning commission to discuss their development in great detail, and that's when studies on traffic, window glare, shadow crap, loading docks, sidewalk widths, distances between buildings, etc. etc. will be examined by the board carefully, and I believe that may be a long - however productive - process. At that point, the PCPC will hopefully approve the project and the developers will be free to begin construction (did I get that right?)

On the Commission's Support for the ACC...
For most of the meeting, I had a difficult time gauging whether or not the board members supported the project, but towards the end after all the testimony had been completed, and ESPECIALLY after the video was shown, the mood was quite upbeat about the project. Councilwoman Olson de Savckyj was smiling throughout most of the pro-ACC testimonials and seemed rather muted during the anti-ACC ones, so her support definitely showed through. Andy Altman's (the deputy mayor and chairman of the board) was "very supportive" of this project, while Councilman Patrick Eiding said this in response to the disputed edge of the central business district, "I don't know how we're intruding into the neighborhood. I cannot see how in good conscience [we cannot recommend this to the city council]." (I paraphrased the end because he spoke too quickly for me to write his exact words down). Needless to say, they passed this bill unanimously.

On Traffic and Parking: There will be 370 parking spaces for the office component, 150 spaces for the hotel component, and 30 for the grocery store. According to the development team's internal traffic analysis and modeling, parking demand on site would be less than 20% of the occupant demand due to direct public transit access and smaller mitigating factors such as bicycle and pedestrian traffic. This statistic came under intense scrutiny from a retired architect that had to be at least 65 years old and completely unfamiliar with modern development. This guy thought sustainable development had no effect on the greater public good. If my architectural engineering friend had heard that, he might have lept from his chair and tackled the guy if he didn't die from a heart attack first. My favorite stat that he threw out there was that ACC wouldn't create larger public spaces than the Comcast Center based on square footage - that to me sounds like crap because I think he only examined the outdoor spaces and didn't include the 6 FLOORS OF PUBLIC RETAIL AND AMENITIES! But back to traffic...

Councilman Alan Greenberger talked about a city-wide traffic study conducted in 2005 that found 100% occupancy of the parking spaces at the current ACC lot which holds something like 360 cars or something. He, along with another council member, went over to the same lot a few days ago and found that occupancy had decreased by 60% since 2005 based upon what they saw. (I'm assuming the statistics were generated at the same time of day at roughly the same time of year, i.e. not summer or on a weekend, and they would obviously have to track occupancy over the course of several days and average them at the very least.) He said this was a response to rising oil prices, and since this pseudo-census was conducted only a few days ago when gas is now considerably cheaper than earlier in the year (even though this is an extremely short-term oasis) it's an even more profound stat. I took the train today and it was packed as usual - off and on peak - and the push-pull train sets had 7 cars on them and off-peak trains had at least 3 cars - something that speaks to the volume of new ridership. Anyway, Councilman Joseph Symick asked the development team if they had had any conversations with the Streets Department and the Office of Transportation about the project to which the traffic study engineers replied, "Yes, and they were satisfied with our analysis...and accepted our conclusions and methodology." I, myself, am a little dubious of the traffic study, but that's a minor detail that certainly should not preclude the development of the ACC in my opinion. It's something that can be worked out later.

Nice take-home stat: The ACC will create nearly 9,000 new jobs for Philadelphia, and 6,000 temporary ones during construction.
     
     
  #1038  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 6:50 AM
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I was the conspicuously underdressed kid in the gray sweater and jeans on the right hand side. I don't know anyone from the forums so I don't know if I was near to any of you. There were 3 guys sitting behind me who seemed to be a group, one of whom printed the posters for the tower supporters. Any of you responsible?
     
     
  #1039  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 9:20 AM
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Any chance somebody knows where we can get a look at that "video fly-by" ourselves?
     
     
  #1040  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2008, 1:23 PM
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It was nice to meet you too Late1, and Swiney as well...

nice notes Don, very nice indeed.

Trance, unless they put it on Youtube I don't think you'll be seeing that video. It was "supposedly" made at the bequest of the planning commission to show the interaction of the building with the street and such. I say "supposedly", because the first 2 mins of the total 4 had nothing to do with ACC at all and had more to do with selling philadelphia. It was kinda lame to be honest. THe fly by parts were really awesome tho...hopefully they'll put it up.
     
     
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