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  #1021  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2008, 6:09 AM
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Look all this doom and gloom, the sky is falling, K Street will never make it - kind of stuff misses the point that 3M went under because they didn't have the right formula for that location, the kitchen was unundisciplined, and the menu was like "we have everything you could ever want to eat" thing-which I stay clear of. The only ones I knew who went there are true suburban TGIF types. Of course,the 3M owners are going to blame the City, or someone/something else-that's easier than blaming yourself for the failure. Downtown's La Bonne Soupe is on crummy ghetto block and yet there's always a line.

Last edited by ozone; Dec 12, 2008 at 6:27 AM.
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  #1022  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2008, 6:23 AM
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Have you been watching Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares to come to that conclusion ozone?
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  #1023  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2008, 9:12 AM
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Bob Shallit: Business plan New Year's Eve ball drop in Sacramento

By Bob Shallit
Published: Thursday, Dec. 11, 2008 | Page 6B

This sounds like fun and I wish I was there to experience this. However, I will be in Lisbon...
My only wish is that they would move the party from K to Capitol Mall. The mall is so under used and I think it would tie in nicely with the fireworks over the river.
I don't want this event to fail like everything else on K.


A New Year's Eve ball drop in downtown Sacramento? That's the plan hatched by a group of downtown business leaders who want to bring some Times Square glitz to the capital city, with a high-wattage display and a ball dropped from atop a former bank building at 930 K St.

"We're hoping to get a gigantic crowd out there," says Trevor Shults, the events and promotions manager for the Paragary Restaurant Group.

He and his boss, Randy Paragary, came up with the idea while walking downtown just weeks ago, he reports. "We were saying, 'Wouldn't it be great to get a Times Square-esque feel here?' "

They jumped on the concept, contacted other businesses and have already raised about $25,000 for the event, Shults says. The primary sponsors: Paragary, Wells Fargo Bank and eDaddyWarbucks Ltd.

At least one city street will be closed to accommodate the hoped-for crowds. The event, which is three weeks away, will start at 11 p.m., and include performances by cast members from the "Forever Plaid" musical on a stage at the northeast corner of 10th and K streets, he says.

As midnight nears, things will get spectacular, he promises, with a light show arranged by Avenue Illumination of Sacramento. Countdown numbers will be projected along the sides of buildings, lights will flash and the ball will be lowered until it reaches a giant 22,000-watt LED sign.

When it's switched on, spelling out "2009," it'll "scorch the street," Shults says.

He also says organizers have lined up a high-profile figure to lead the crowd in counting down the seconds to New Year's Day. Who? New Mayor Kevin Johnson.
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  #1024  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2008, 5:11 PM
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Originally Posted by innov8 View Post
Have you been watching Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares to come to that conclusion ozone?
Oh Ramsay is hard core. Actually I'm more of a fan of Anthony Bourdain but basically I'm just a lame foodie wannabe.
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  #1025  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2008, 9:19 PM
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I gotta back Ozone on this one. 3M's menu was waaaaay too crazy for this environment. I'm constantly harping on my aunt because her diner's menu choices would cause an indecisive person to go into cardiac arrest, much like 3M's did. The place was neat, but a kitchen out of control will doom a business.
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  #1026  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2008, 5:26 AM
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Thankfully the Elks Building and McCormick and Schmick's are kattycorner from the Citizen. Those two have good synergy and will help each other.
No wait. Elks and Citizen aren't kattycorner. There's a whole block in between. It's that dark, desolate block of J Street with nothing open on either side of the street but the cigar/liquor store.

Maybe my mind was just wishing Elks and Citizen were kattycorner. Or I selectively blocked out the void between them, focusing on the positive. I was downtown tonight and they're a block apart, most definitely.

Bad enough I'm losing my memory; now I'm responding to my own posts.

Anyhow I walked past Grange tonight and through the windows it looked very busy, 7pm on a Friday night. I'll try it some time, but for lunch.
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  #1027  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2008, 7:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
No wait. Elks and Citizen aren't kattycorner. There's a whole block in between. It's that dark, desolate block of J Street with nothing open on either side of the street but the cigar/liquor store.

Maybe my mind was just wishing Elks and Citizen were kattycorner. Or I selectively blocked out the void between them, focusing on the positive. I was downtown tonight and they're a block apart, most definitely.

Bad enough I'm losing my memory; now I'm responding to my own posts.

Anyhow I walked past Grange tonight and through the windows it looked very busy, 7pm on a Friday night. I'll try it some time, but for lunch.
Responding to your own posts---thats rich!

We tried to get a reservation for 7pm at the Grange but it was booked until 8:30., so we went to the Cosmopolitian instead. The food and service were great. I really liked the decor inside as well. Some great old photos of K Street before it was a pedestrian mall.

After a short walk, we then went to the Grange @ 8:30 for dessert. Food and Service were great. After dessert we went up to the roof to check out the view. I would recommend both places.
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  #1028  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 12:18 AM
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After a short walk, we then went to the Grange @ 8:30 for dessert. Food and Service were great. After dessert we went up to the roof to check out the view. I would recommend both places.
How do us common folk like me get to the roof top terrace to check out the view?
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  #1029  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 12:53 AM
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Depends on which roof. Did you go to the banquet room or the Governor's suite? Both are impressive but there are 7 floors between them.

I wish they would open up the banquet area for drinks when not booked. We need a rooftop bar in this town.
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  #1030  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 2:53 AM
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You can't necessarily get access to the rooftop terrace, but I think you can pretty much walk in, get in the elevator and go to the 14th floor: there is a little landing with windows with a nice view. There are a lot of buildings downtown where pretty much all you have to do is walk in like you know where you're going, hit the elevator and go look for views. It helps if you're dressed professionally.
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  #1031  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 5:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Cynikal View Post
Depends on which roof. Did you go to the banquet room or the Governor's suite? Both are impressive but there are 7 floors between them.

I wish they would open up the banquet area for drinks when not booked. We need a rooftop bar in this town.
We went up on the very top of the roof. We were with a contingent of people who along with the contractor of the remodel unlocked the door to the roof.

From the 14th floor you had to walk up several flights of stairs to the locked door to the roof. Great views on top, and great ornamentation on the top of the roof; three pointed crest type stone pieces surrounding the perimeter of the roof sort of acting like a guard-rail-stone fence preventing you from slipping off the roof. There were about 30 or so of the stone pieces, each one about 2 feet tall. Also, you could see looking slightly down at another part of the building that has a slanted A-frame type of roof with the a giant chimney flume coming through the roof. Gotham City like. Way cool!
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  #1032  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 5:32 PM
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Wow! Sounds like a great tour.
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  #1033  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 6:50 PM
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Another Reason to Visit Old Sacramento

The Firehouse owner to open eatery at The Orleans in Old Sac
Sacramento Business Journal - by Mark Anderson Staff writer
Friday, December 12, 2008

Lloyd Harvego, the developer of The Orleans in historic Old Sacramento, is going to open a restaurant on the ground floor of the building this summer.

He’s conducting focus groups to come up with the name and style of the restaurant.

It will be a mid-priced, tourist-friendly restaurant in the evenings and aim for a business lunch crowd during the week. It will have some wine and potentially other spirits, but beer will be the beverage of choice, with a handful of brews on tap and many boutique and international ales available. Harvego said he has absolutely no interest in brewing beer on the premises.

The emphasis on beer will help differentiate the new restaurant from Harvego’s other restaurant in Old Sacramento, The Firehouse, which has an enormous — and celebrated — wine cellar.

Harvego had planned to develop the $12 million Orleans project as an investment property. He completed the 24-unit upscale loft-style apartment complex in the summer, and wanted to lease the ground floor to a restaurateur.

But after months of not seeing eye-to-eye with potential restaurateurs, Harvego decided to open a restaurant.

Harvego knows a few things about restaurants. He used to tend bar at The Firehouse in the early 1960s before he became a full-time water engineer for the state. Eventually, he built his own international engineering and management company, Resource Management International, which had 400 employees by the time he sold it and retired to operate The Firehouse.

The Orleans was a hole in the ground in Old Sacramento for almost 80 years. A Gold Rush-era hotel called The Orleans stood on the spot at 1024 2nd St. before the turn of the 20th century. But the hotel fell on hard times and eventually became a paint warehouse, which then burned to the ground in the 1930s.

The Orleans is a replica of that hotel. The building has a restaurant space on the ground floor on 2nd Street, the main drag of Old Sacramento. The space includes a 6,300-square-foot interior with access to a 2,500-square-foot deck in the alley.

With approvals and construction, the restaurant could open by July, Harvego said.
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  #1034  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2008, 12:22 PM
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Too much midtown nightlife?-- In Sacramento??

Friday, December 19, 2008
City hears residents’ complaints of too many bars
Sacramento Business Journal - by Mark Anderson Staff writer

Residents of the booming restaurant scene in Sacramento are clamoring for some peace in their neighborhoods.

They are increasingly being bothered by late-night noise, scarce parking spaces and some instances of general bad behavior.

It’s perhaps an expected result of the city’s efforts to make downtown and midtown a hub of mixed-use planning, where restaurants and businesses mix with the residents. But some residents are fed up and think there might be too many bars and restaurants.

In response, the city last week hosted a 90-minute forum for midtown neighbors, who had a chance to complain about loud late-night strolls by drunken customers seeking their cars, people parking in driveways and the occasional noisy businesses.

The incidents are byproducts of a now-thriving district, something the city has been seeking for years, said City Councilman Steve Cohn, who has represented the neighborhood since 1994. The city is not going to change the zoning to limit restaurants and bars.

“This is midtown. It is mixed-use,” Cohn said. “We don’t want it to be like Granite Bay or Elk Grove, where all the restaurants are in one area and all the people live somewhere else.”

The city is trying to address the issues on several fronts. The Sacramento Police Department has an entertainment patrol — one sergeant and five patrol officers — who are tasked with monitoring restaurants, bars, clubs and performance venues. They measure the sound levels, and they patrol for problem customers in the neighborhood. The patrol started this fall.

“We’re going to work on solutions together,” said Rob Kerth, executive director of the Midtown Business Association. “The list of complaints is pretty short. It’s noise at closing time, the parking and some litter. We can figure out how to make that better.”

Art, music, fashion and dining are major industries that help the Sacramento economy and “they are industries that happen mostly at night. We don’t want to close this down,” Kerth said.

“Midtown is a great place to live because there is so much going on in it,” he said. Housing prices are down in most areas of Sacramento, but “the central city has not succumbed to falling housing prices. Clearly, it is a desirable place to be.”

Some city leaders and midtown stakeholders attended a conference of the Responsible Hospitality Institute this fall to see how other cities deal with mixed-use conflicts, Kerth said. In midtown and downtown, many of the complaints by neighbors could be solved by working with other businesses and offices in the area to allow their parking lots to be used at night.

“Success breeds challenges, and we are working on the challenges,” said Michael Ault, director of the Downtown Sacramento Partnership, a business improvement district in the central city.

“We’ve got to keep in mind it is an area where people are attracted to the businesses,” he said. “It is not reasonable to assume that people will be able to park in front of their homes every night in an area like this. That said, there has to be balance with the needs of the residents, and we know that.”

The city has worked to increase off-street parking in one part of midtown, taking control of the East End Garage — on 17th Street, between L Street and Capitol Avenue — after the state offices close down at night. The city offers parking for $2 for the evening.

“It is one of the best-kept secrets in town,” city spokeswoman Linda Tucker said. “We encourage the employers to tell their employees to park in the garages to open more spots on the streets.”

Kerth said if he can get permission to use a few more lots and garages, it would dramatically reduce the fight over parking between midtown residents and the folks who drive into the area.

At the forum, several central city residents said that a person could walk along the corridor of J, K, L and Capitol Mall and Capitol Avenue from Old Sacramento in the west to Alhambra Boulevard on the east, a span of 30 blocks, and hit at least one bar on every numbered street.

That fact probably won’t change, Cohn said, but there can be solutions to make sure it works better with the neighbors.

Hospitality owners realize the need to keep the peace between patrons and neighborhood residents, Kerth said. It is the occasional patron that acts badly.

But residents are not without power.

They have the ability to limit any new bars in restaurants. When a business seeks a liquor license, it has to send notices to its neighbors within 100 feet in any direction and publicly post a sign.

The most recent application for a liquor license in the area, the Old Soul at the Weatherstone, was turned down. Not only did neighbors oppose the license, but the area is considered “oversaturated” with alcohol-serving or -selling establishments.

Being considered “oversaturated” doesn’t mean a business cannot get a liquor license, it’s just a little more difficult. In the case of the Weatherstone, its application received two letters of protest from neighbors, said John Carr, spokesman with the California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control. The Weatherstone is on the west side of 21st Street, which is commercial mixed-use. Across the street is residential.

“We know it is an issue,” Ault said of the challenges with mixed-use. “The last thing we want to do is get sideways with the residents.”
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  #1035  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2008, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by doriankage View Post
“This is midtown. It is mixed-use,” Cohn said. “We don’t want it to be like Granite Bay or Elk Grove, where all the restaurants are in one area and all the people live somewhere else.”
Deal with it or get the fuck out.
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  #1036  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 6:48 AM
doriankage doriankage is offline
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Deal with it or get the fuck out.
My sentiments exactly!
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  #1037  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 5:35 PM
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It seems like "mixed use" pretty much means "bar" to a lot of folks...shouldn't it include other things?
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  #1038  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 6:30 PM
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I never heard of such complaints in other cities....why here??
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  #1039  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 11:14 PM
Yogi916 Yogi916 is offline
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Tragic that Old Soul @ The Weatherstone was denied a Beer & Wine License. Opponents (some of whom live 15 or more blocks away and who apparently write letters of opposition for all requests for Beer & Wine in the grid no matter the proposed business) often used the following arguments:

1) Drew comparisons between Old Soul (with a few local/imported drafts and wine offerings and closing time of 11pm) to Benny's, Zebra Club, Torch Club, Press Club, etc with liquor licenses and open until 2am.

2) That businesses with beer/wine negatively impact property values in the surrounding areas.
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  #1040  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 11:58 PM
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The owner of Old Soul is my next door neighbor. He thought that the liquor licence rejection (He wanted to be able to serve wine, and distill it's own infusions), was pretty random.

I hope the neighborhood will eventually change it's mind. Old Soul is a quality gig.
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