HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth


    Sutton Place Nova Centre in the SkyscraperPage Database

Building Data Page   • Halifax Skyscraper Diagram

Map Location

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1021  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2010, 1:52 PM
Haliguy's Avatar
Haliguy Haliguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Halifax
Posts: 1,328
Yeah not sure where this Preforming arts centre came from.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1022  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2010, 5:58 PM
sdm sdm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haliguy View Post
Yeah not sure where this Preforming arts centre came from.
Not the first time he's stated that, but the RFP does not include such so it will be interesting to see what comes of it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1023  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2010, 9:59 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,818
Ridiculous. So many projects get bogged down like this. Not hard to imagine this project being torpedoed by an off-the-wall requirement to include a performing arts centre.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1024  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2010, 11:49 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
I hope that what the Mayor means is that seats can be set up and use the exhibit hall for musical acts and even live theater when it is not hosting trade shows. If this isn't the meaning then we should be concerned. This should have been decided a year ago.

However, the new Niagara Falls convention centre has the following for $92 million dollars. I keep wondering if Halifax is getting enough for its money. This one does have a 1,000 seat Theatre (source http://www.fallsconventions.com/ ). But does Halifax need another theatre? It has the Cohn and the Neptune.

Quote:
Niagara Convention & Civic Centre is a new convention facility, scheduled to open in April 2011. The convention centre will be located in Niagara Falls, Ontario, some 500 yards from the Canadian Horseshoe Falls in the fashionable Fallsview Tourist District.

The 280,000 square foot LEED certified Niagara Convention & Civic Centre will be home to:

* an 80,000 square foot free-span Exhibition Hall
* a distinctive 17,000 square foot Ballroom
* 26,500 square feet of flexible Meeting & Breakout Space
* an intimate 1,000 seat Theatre with live performances
* State-of-the-Art Acoustic & Presentation Technologies
* Exciting Food and Beverage Offerings
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1025  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2010, 12:40 AM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,818
The performing arts centre has been talked about for years. The idea is to have a theatre with something like 5,000 seats, full backstage facilities, and so on. It could be a useful addition but it is not a minor thing and it could be built as a standalone facility.

Adding yet another small theatre along the lines of the ones in Neptune, the Cohn, Alderney Landing, Citadel High, etc. is kind of pointless.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1026  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2010, 1:39 AM
musicman musicman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 270
Everybody talks about the cohn or neptune... When in actuality the biggest theatre east of montreal i believe is the theatre at, i want to say prince andrew high... Anyway it is out in dartmouth next to the Alderney NSCC campus... Neptune theatre is nice but it is much too small for most productions and the cohn is not a great theatre for plays... So yeah we need a large theatre however for it to be incorporated into the Nova centre is crazy... We need a 3000 to 4000 seat theatre... But the Nova Center is not the place for it....
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1027  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2010, 3:06 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
The Heritage Advisory Committe is recommending that both the Roy Building and Discovery Centre building should be rejected outright according to allnovascotia.com. The committee members are saying there is nothing in the Barrington Street Heritage Conservation District that allows them to approve these projects (even though they were grandfathered in).

If they have the power to reject these two then doesn't that mean that they can also reject the Nova Centre?

I have the feeling that the downtown core will become a derelict hollowed out urban streetscape like Detroit before these clowns will realize the importance of developers in the city. This is a good example of why I hate this HRM by Design. These Heritage hacks are destroying the city. Now that the city is finally starting to grow they will do everything that they possibly can to stop it.

I hope that the business people in Halifax will start looking at the record of who is stopping these projects and then in the next election stop supporting these councillors. Some of them pretend to support development but then stop almost every development that comes along.

PS: According to the story, the Heritage Advisory Committee's decision is not binding on the HRM council. I hope that the council will reject their decision and uphold the decision made by the HRM council when it was decided to grandfather these projects.

Last edited by fenwick16; Jun 25, 2010 at 5:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1028  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2010, 11:51 AM
Haliguy's Avatar
Haliguy Haliguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Halifax
Posts: 1,328
Convention centre decision not far off

Fri. Jun 25 - 4:54 AM
A decision on a new convention centre should come soon after the province receives a final proposal, Infrastructure Renewal Minister Bill Estabrooks said Thursday.

The detailed plan from developer Rank Inc. is due July 19.

Estabrooks said he assumes cabinet would make a decision relatively soon afterward.

"I would prefer it to be quickly because we’ve had lots of input and lots of debate on the topic and Nova Scotians, and Haligonians in particular, are looking forward to the decision where we’re going with the convention centre, so let’s get it done," the minister said after a cabinet meeting.

Rank proposes a major hotel, office and retail complex on the former Halifax Herald property in downtown Halifax.

The costs aren’t yet known. The entire project is estimated at close to $400 million, with the convention centre part estimated at roughly $120 million.

Two days of open house information sessions hosted by the Crown corporation Trade Centre Ltd. wrapped up Thursday.

Project supporters say the project would be a shot in the arm for downtown Halifax, while opponents say the project would be a burden for taxpayers and are worried about blocking the view of Halifax Harbour from Citadel Hill.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1029  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2010, 1:06 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
Fizzix geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South End, Hali
Posts: 1,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman View Post
Everybody talks about the cohn or neptune... When in actuality the biggest theatre east of montreal i believe is the theatre at, i want to say prince andrew high... Anyway it is out in dartmouth next to the Alderney NSCC campus... Neptune theatre is nice but it is much too small for most productions and the cohn is not a great theatre for plays... So yeah we need a large theatre however for it to be incorporated into the Nova centre is crazy... We need a 3000 to 4000 seat theatre... But the Nova Center is not the place for it....
Saint John High School in NB also has a roughly 1200 seat theatre.

I agree with everyone that the Neptune and Cohn service certain needs adequately, and there is no need for redundancy. Whereas a large scale performing arts centre would open the city to different performances that really aren't viable currently (unless you count the attempts at using the Metro Centre and its crap acoustics).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1030  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2010, 3:53 PM
FuzzyWuz FuzzyWuz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 350
The Cohn is not a theatre, it's a concert hall. A theatre has certain technical needs that are not met by the Cohn. A fly tower comes to mind. And it's backstage area is shit.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1031  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2010, 3:56 PM
Nilan8888 Nilan8888 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 199
Quote:
I don't think that's good news at all. There is so much else that could be done with the Herald lands that would add more sustained vibrancy to that part of the city. A convention centre there will be busy some of the time, but will, more often than not, be empty since that's the nature of the business. The effect will be compounded by the neighbouring Metro Centre. I would have liked to have seen the Convention Centre located on one of the other sites like the Cogswell. With the federal money coming available, we could have knocked down the Cogswell and put the Convention Centre there.
I don't know that I agree. I believe Cogswell will come down some day -- it's just a matter of time and demand. And when it does come down, it would make sense to start putting in more office towers since that's already consistent with what's there, and is the spot in downtown least likely to draw the Heritage Trust's negative attention... although I admit they might still find a way. But at least they CLAIM they'll play nice with those lands.

The Herald building didn't necessarily add a huge bulk of activity, did it? There are still a number of offices within walking distance -- in fact I used to have to walk home from work right down that same area. For anyone looking to get to Spring Garden Road from the office building center, that's still probably going to be a main route.

This way we get the centre reasonably close to downtown that's not taking up the best spots for new office building for when that day (hopefully) comes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1032  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2010, 5:53 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
The HAC's recommendation is not binding on council - so they can approve the project (which I suspect they will). It's much the same as Calgary Planning Commision - it may recommend a land use change, but City Council can ultimately vote as it wants (as they normally do - heaven forbid you try to get rezoned for a secondary suite, but that's another matter!).

I agree that Cogswell will come down - its a useless piece of infrastructure that's costing more than it's benefiting and the area could be better served; but as we have seen with the HT - they will find a way to argue anything. So my only comment is; wait for it...

The herald building was a huge bulk a building which didn't add anything to the streetscape at all. I'm not sure how well this building will add to the streetscape either - as I'm still on the fence about the design. But at least we have a design to discuss and there are aspects I like.

One of them is that there is a huge office component too - which may make that block a lot busier with activity.

As to a performing arts centre - I think that would be a nice thing to have - but I don't know of any convention centres where this exists? Does anyone know of an example? I'm sure there is; but at this point of the day (and after a late night) I can't seem to find any.

If it could be built as part of the project - great; it would probably add to the ability to rent out the centre some how (It would add a space where group discussions could occur, I can see some benefits). But if it's just a nice to have item; lets not kill the project over it and look for a location where it might be more workable - say the new library?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1033  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2010, 8:58 PM
eastcoastal eastcoastal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
The Heritage Advisory Committe is recommending that both the Roy Building and Discovery Centre building should be rejected outright according to allnovascotia.com. The committee members are saying there is nothing in the Barrington Street Heritage Conservation District that allows them to approve these projects (even though they were grandfathered in).
From the agenda I read, and the report included, I think the HAC was supposed to be advising council on whether they should grandfather the two projects or not. The Roy Building proposal has already come in front of the HAC, but the report hasn't gone to council yet because they are trying to correct an administrative error (when they grandfathered, they didn't do the work to include the necessary provisions in the Barrington Street Conservation District Revitalization Plan)... which makes me wonder why a Heritage body was being asked to review an administrative error.

In any case, I haven't read the ALLNS article, but I can't imagine that the Committee could review specific proposals with only an administrative error on their agenda.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1034  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2010, 9:26 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastal View Post
From the agenda I read, and the report included, I think the HAC was supposed to be advising council on whether they should grandfather the two projects or not. The Roy Building proposal has already come in front of the HAC, but the report hasn't gone to council yet because they are trying to correct an administrative error (when they grandfathered, they didn't do the work to include the necessary provisions in the Barrington Street Conservation District Revitalization Plan)... which makes me wonder why a Heritage body was being asked to review an administrative error.

In any case, I haven't read the ALLNS article, but I can't imagine that the Committee could review specific proposals with only an administrative error on their agenda.
This is the epitome of bureaucracy. The council already decided to grandfather these developments in prior to HRM by Design for the purpose of fairness. However, it gets sent to the Heritage Advisory Committee anyway. Then they say there is an administrative error. Give us a break! How many departments must wrap this in red tape?

There was a joke that used to be told - A comedian went to Philadelphia for the weekend but it was closed. It could be applied in this case. Several developers went to Halifax but it was closed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1035  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2010, 8:53 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
This is the epitome of bureaucracy. The council already decided to grandfather these developments in prior to HRM by Design for the purpose of fairness. However, it gets sent to the Heritage Advisory Committee anyway. Then they say there is an administrative error. Give us a break! How many departments must wrap this in red tape?

There was a joke that used to be told - A comedian went to Philadelphia for the weekend but it was closed. It could be applied in this case. Several developers went to Halifax but it was closed.
Now now; errors happen. I work with the City of Calgary and when I was doing a land use application; I forgot to circulate the proposal to the community on the other side of the street. Did it dawn on me that they would care? No - but I caught hell for it anyway when the sign went up and residents started calling. No one told me we were supposed too; but there it was; I made a mistake. Didn't matter either way, both communities were opposed to it and council approved the land use anyway. The development permit will be another story.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1036  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2010, 10:55 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Now now; errors happen. I work with the City of Calgary and when I was doing a land use application; I forgot to circulate the proposal to the community on the other side of the street. Did it dawn on me that they would care? No - but I caught hell for it anyway when the sign went up and residents started calling. No one told me we were supposed too; but there it was; I made a mistake. Didn't matter either way, both communities were opposed to it and council approved the land use anyway. The development permit will be another story.
I have a question, where do most of the delays come from - the city staff or the HRM council. It seems as though both create their own delays, so I am not sure which one is worse.

Personally, I have stopped making apologies for the way things are done in the HRM. The Halifax area has a reputation for never changing (is not progressive in other words). This is a reputation that comes from people who have moved away, not just now, but from decades ago (although the 70's and 80's seemed to be progressive years). I have a feeling that Calgary treats developers fairly whereas that isn't the case for Halifax.

I don't think that Halifax has become anti-development because of poor architectural design from the 70's. The architectural design in Halifax from the 70's was similar to the rest of North America and then it changed to mostly glass in the 80's. So it was a natural progression. Personally, I just think that people who have control over the downtown area are not progressively minded people. Almost all the development in the HRM is taking place in the suburbs where it is easier to get permits and build.

Last edited by fenwick16; Jun 26, 2010 at 11:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1037  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2010, 5:06 PM
hfxtradesman hfxtradesman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 84
A quote from a person very involved in this project said ( the re-design of this project is just "AMAZING"). I'm trying to get a sneek peak at the plans before it goes to public. It still looks like everybody is on board, we'll cross our fingers!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1038  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2010, 5:18 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfxtradesman View Post
A quote from a person very involved in this project said ( the re-design of this project is just "AMAZING"). I'm trying to get a sneek peak at the plans before it goes to public. It still looks like everybody is on board, we'll cross our fingers!
Thanks for the inside info. Please keep us updated.

Do you have any inside info on the Armour Group Waterside Centre such as what stage they are at; have they started pouring concrete? If you also have info on the Waterside Centre the link to that thread is here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...144928&page=46
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1039  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2010, 7:30 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
we built this city
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfxtradesman View Post
A quote from a person very involved in this project said ( the re-design of this project is just "AMAZING"). I'm trying to get a sneek peak at the plans before it goes to public. It still looks like everybody is on board, we'll cross our fingers!
Nice!

I knew there would be a redesign.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1040  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2010, 8:37 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I have a question, where do most of the delays come from - the city staff or the HRM council. It seems as though both create their own delays, so I am not sure which one is worse.

Personally, I have stopped making apologies for the way things are done in the HRM. The Halifax area has a reputation for never changing (is not progressive in other words). This is a reputation that comes from people who have moved away, not just now, but from decades ago (although the 70's and 80's seemed to be progressive years). I have a feeling that Calgary treats developers fairly whereas that isn't the case for Halifax.

I don't think that Halifax has become anti-development because of poor architectural design from the 70's. The architectural design in Halifax from the 70's was similar to the rest of North America and then it changed to mostly glass in the 80's. So it was a natural progression. Personally, I just think that people who have control over the downtown area are not progressively minded people. Almost all the development in the HRM is taking place in the suburbs where it is easier to get permits and build.
Well I am not sure where it comes from in HRM to be honest; but I know there can be delays to get things to council because of report deadlines. As with any organization - there is a reporting structure; so the planner would write the report and then the management levels above edit it and so on.

So in my case, my boss (known as a lead planner) would make changes, then her boss (Chief Planner) made changes. Then the principle planner in charge of the Planning Commission made changes, then the general manager of the planning department could make changes to it before it came to the Planning Commission. That alone, with set deadlines took roughly 3 weeks. So my draft was submitted to the commission on a Tuesday, the final report and attachments were locked down the following Tuesday; agenda/packages printed and put online by Thursday and then the meeting would be the following Thursday.

Some of the delays come from statutory deadlines; I'm sure. A public hearing has to be advertised in most provinces, regardless of what the application is. So the typical advertising time is 14 days (2 weeks). So if I go back to my example of Calgary - depending on the public hearing date - it could be over a month because of internal processes to get a report to public hearing. Here is an example (taken from The Calgary Planning Commission meeting schedule). In order to make it to the public hearing on July 5, the item would've had to be at the May 13 CPC meeting for advertising in June. So in this case, almost 2 months.

So I can only assume that in order for some projects to make it through committees and then to council; there can be similar delays. Much like say the Heritage committee for HRM - Calgary Planning commission gives city council a recommendation based on their evaluation of the proposal. Of course Council is not bound by it. So I'm assuming somewhere, direction has been given to administration that certain committees must have an opportunity to evaluate the application. Added to that now is probably the design committee as well - which will add time. Keep in mind, HRM sends the planner involved to present - so that person can't be in 4 places at once; so one meeting - one planner. But; there may be a way to cut the time down if meetings could be organized a little better.

Btw, if anyone is bored enough on July 5th; they can see me present at COC public hearing (not sure when). But the hearing is broadcast on the website. But trust me; it's nothing special lol.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:37 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.