[Saint John] Fundy Quay (South Market Wharf) | 19-6s | 70m-26m | U/C

[sailor734]

Sounds like some bureaucrat in Fredericton got their knickers in a twist and decided to defend their little empire.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

They inspect group homes, apartment buildings etc. it’s a thing. I’m laughing thinking of the years of explosions we endured at AIM and was never shut down by fire Marshall. It’s like raiding a lemonade stand.

Definitely a situation of apples and oranges, or rather lemons

Ridiculous when you think about how disruptive, dangerous, and downright deadly AIM has been all these years.

yeesh.

Originally Posted by sailor734

Sounds like some bureaucrat in Fredericton got their knickers in a twist and decided to defend their little empire.

Definitely sounds like this.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Wow, thank God the Higgs government spent all that money on municipal government reform and amalgamation so that we'd have less bureaucracy and be more efficient.

I wonder why Saint John was left out completely from all the amalgamations. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with Blaine Higgs living in Quispamsis, right?

I thought he promised to deliver comprehensive tax reform too. If I recall correctly, his government did agree to allow municipalities to very slightly raise rates on industry, but I wouldn't call it any sort of reform, let alone comprehensive tax reform.

Pretty astounding that Saint Johners voted this guy and his party in twice in a row. That 2020 election was sneaky as hell. Like him or hate him, you can't call him stupid. There's many other adjectives I'd like to use to describe him here, but we're not supposed to use such language on this forum.

[sailor734]

Drove by Market Square late this morning. The patios appear to be fenced off and still closed.

Sounds like it might be more than a simple miscommunication.

[DyAm00394]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Drove by Market Square late this morning. The patios appear to be fenced off and still closed.

Sounds like it might be more than a simple miscommunication.

An update was given at the council meeting last night. The fire alarm and sprinkler systems are now up and active. Just some signing off and testing is left to do. There are also issues with the fire shutters on the existing building as well they’ve mentioned. They said they are working as hard as they can to resolve the issues. Also mentioned was that the city agreed to “alternative solution” conditions for the patios because the proposed design for the covered patios was not in the building code. The conditions from engineering firm RJ Bartlett included a fire alarm, sprinklers and non-combustible furniture. They did not meet those conditions for occupancy, so they wanted to put a 24/7 fire watch team in place temporarily while this was worked on. It got approval from the city fire marshal, but the provincial fire marshal office didn’t approve of this idea.

Here’s a new article from yesterday: https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/saint-jo...plan-1.6921332

[sailor734]

I'm still a little confused about these events.
The city and mayor have said several times that the opening was approved by "The city fire prevention office acting on behalf of the provincial fire marshal."

Sounds like there is a systemic flaw if you can get approval from one government body only to have it revoked without notice by another when both bodies deal with the same regulatory issues. . Is the "city fire prevention office" empowered to act on behalf of the provincial Fire marshal or not? Who's in charge here and why aren't they the ones you approach for approval? Sounds the provincial office should deal with these applications directly and not farm them out if they aren't going to accept the decisions of those they appoint to act for them.

Maybe I don't understand the process but it certainly doesn't seem efficient (or fair to property owners)

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I'm still a little confused about these events.
The city and mayor have said several times that the opening was approved by "The city fire prevention office acting on behalf of the provincial fire marshal."

Sounds like there is a systemic flaw if you can get approval from one government body only to have it revoked without notice by another when both bodies deal with the same regulatory issues. . Is the "city fire prevention office" empowered to act on behalf of the provincial Fire marshal or not? Who's in charge here and why aren't they the ones you approach for approval? Sounds the provincial office should deal with these applications directly and not farm them out if they aren't going to accept the decisions of those they appoint to act for them.

Maybe I don't understand the process but it certainly doesn't seem efficient (or fair to property owners)

Meanwhile tents with chimneys are catching fire, killing people and spreading unabated. But god forbid we let a patio of steel and concrete with 24 hour fire watch operate.

[gtsoc]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I'm still a little confused about these events.
The city and mayor have said several times that the opening was approved by "The city fire prevention office acting on behalf of the provincial fire marshal."

Sounds like there is a systemic flaw if you can get approval from one government body only to have it revoked without notice by another when both bodies deal with the same regulatory issues. . Is the "city fire prevention office" empowered to act on behalf of the provincial Fire marshal or not? Who's in charge here and why aren't they the ones you approach for approval? Sounds the provincial office should deal with these applications directly and not farm them out if they aren't going to accept the decisions of those they appoint to act for them.

Maybe I don't understand the process but it certainly doesn't seem efficient (or fair to property owners)

The city met with the province yesterday and apparently the tables/chairs they purchased are not up to some sort of code.

They were told if they cleared all of the tables and chairs out and put in picnic tables they could open this morning

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by gtsoc

The city met with the province yesterday and apparently the tables/chairs they purchased are not up to some sort of code.

They were told if they cleared all of the tables and chairs out and put in picnic tables they could open this morning

OH FFS! I thought all the patio furniture was metal? How can that be a fire hazard?

Besides, I thought these patios were not addressed in the code as it exists so they were negotiating compliance as they went along?

Hard to tell for sure without all the details but it certainly sounds like there might be a bureaucrat in Fredericton who is being a dick.

[MonctonRad]

They were discussing this on Maritime Noon on CBC Radio, and this sounds like a pure bureaucratic morass, where a petty bureaucrat has his knickers in a knot, and refuses to budge. How this can be allowed to happen is beyond me.

[DyAm00394]

CBC audio interview today with the mayor giving an update on the patios: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio...uare-boardwalk

As of today they got the sign offs from the engineers and an inspection happened this morning. Then there will be a letter sent from the engineer's department to the provincial fire marshal's office, (which she said they are aware it's coming and are ready to look at it). The letter confirms they are ready to open for interim occupancy. She said in the interest of a solution, picnic tables are being installed today then remaining conditions will be complete for occupancy next week. There was apparently issues with the furniture that was bought and installed. So the picnic tables are only temporary until the new proper furniture arrives.

[sailor734]

Opening with temporary picnic tables.........how Mickey Mouse can you get? This whole project should be called "The Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight build a patio"

Reardon rambled and stumbled for 12 minutes and was about as clear as mud. I'm ashamed to say it but this is such a typical City of Saint John half assed operation.

Would love to hear a clear and concise explanation of what happened and who exactly screwed up.

[DyAm00394]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Opening with temporary picnic tables.........how Mickey Mouse can you get? This whole project should be called "The Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight build a patio"

Reardon rambled and stumbled for 12 minutes and was about as clear as mud. I'm ashamed to say it but this is such a typical City of Saint John half assed operation.

Would love to hear a clear and concise explanation of what happened and who exactly screwed up.

From talking with employees down there it’s the fire marshal nitpicking on things. Having too much joy with his power essentially. Because one of the issues was a fire shutter inside Market Square didn’t close with the others so that was an issue against the patios lol. And the mulch used for landscaping is too combustible so that was an issue, stuff like that. He wanted them to use wooden benches instead of their existing furniture because it’s less combustible. Even though they were using non combustible fibreglass and metal furniture. So random things like that.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

From talking with employees down there it’s the fire marshal nitpicking on things. Having too much joy with his power essentially.

Well, I could certainly find it easy to believe that of a provincial bureaucrat.

OTHO I have great faith in the City's ability to screw things up too (based on 60+ years of watching them do so).

I doubt we will ever know the real story as I expect all involved are busily engaged in CYA activity. Reardon's interview with Julia Wright was about 80% rambling word salad. I found it hard to parse much out of it other than picnic tables for now while they buy new furniture that meets code.....or at least the provincial Fire Marshal's interpretation of code.

Reardon never actually said so but it did sort of sound like the fire alarm and sprinklers are done.....maybe?....who knows?.....

[Helladog]

Maybe a lawsuit to recoup losses from not opening the patios in a timely manner from the fire marshall and province should commence.

[DyAm00394]

The boardwalk patios have now re-opened.

Posted today on social media by the city:

"Interim opening of the boardwalk patios effective immediately!

While we await testing of the fully integrated system, the patios along the waterfront boardwalk are now open to as much capacity as possible. We expect a complete opening to take place later this week and we will keep the public updated.

We encourage everyone to enjoy the great atmosphere the patios have to offer as well as all the other wonderful things to do in uptown Saint John".

[Pugsley]

The ONLY, and I mean ONLY thing I could think of related to the furniture might be their weight or ease to move, for say when you have an emergency and need to evacuate. That MIGHT be the reason. I have no idea what they ordered or have in place now, but that is the only thing I could think of as being an issue. Which if that is the case, it is a fair thing to make sure is right. Having people tripping over toppled chairs or ones that could easily block an exit would be problematic in a fire.

I hope they get this resolved as I truly feel for the poor restauranteurs who've put up with this for so long!

[DyAm00394]

Just an updated look of the site this morning:

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Just an updated look of the site this morning:

The market slip part of the site looks really good coming down King Street.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

The market slip part of the site looks really good coming down King Street.

Ate in the patios for the first time last night, the new area looks really good from down there too, especially the variety of seating and the massively more professional looking stage.