Shift: London's Rapid Transit Initiative

[CanadianTalk]

It's official! As of tomorrow, London will see the first implementation of its BRT network by having a bus-only lane on King Street, as part of the Downtown Loop. Although it is a small stretch (from Ridout St to Wellington St), there will be more BRT construction within the next few years.

The next phase of the Downtown Loop will start next year (Queens Ave and Ridout St), in addition to the first phase of the East London Link.

Link to CTV News Article: https://london.ctvnews.ca/london-tra...pens-1.5711640

[ssiguy]

Thank God.

Downtown has taken soo many poundings in the last few years............drugs, COVID, and the King Bus Loop. The good news is that the last is now finally behind them. The Queen section will not be near as disruptive because Queen, quite unlike King, is mainly office with almost no commercial between Wellington & Ridout. Now that King is done it will be interesting to see what the new stations look like.

Due to King being commercial and high density residential however, the City can expect a lot of blowback from residents and businesses. King has never been a major bus route and now those people are going to have to get use to a plethora of loud, smelly, and polluting buses going by their door at all times of the day & night.

To calm this the City must start employing battery buses to get rid of these negatives starting with all the routes that will use the Loop. Personally, I have to confess that if I were one of these residents or businesses having to put up with 30 diesel buses going by every hour, I would not be impressed.

[jammer139]

Ticketing for cars parked on the Bus only lane has already started.

[mooseman]

I drove down the recently completed section of King St. today and I'm confused as to what improvements the city made in terms of BRT infrastructure. The street looks the same and it made me wonder why the city would call this "phase 1" of the downtown loop if the construction didn't have anything to do with BRT per se.

[ssiguy]

Are they not going to paint the BRT lanes?

[GreatTallNorth2]

What its supposed to look like^

[Djeffery]

Remember that a large part of this project is the underground infrastructure that had to be replaced. As for painting the bus lane, I imagine that might come later as more of the project is done. I don't think they wanted to paint it right at the start of winter either.

[CanadianTalk]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Are they not going to paint the BRT lanes?

I'm not knowledgable in the construction field, so I may be wrong in this.

It seems that for construction projects in the city that finish near the winter time, the city applies one final asphalt layer during the following spring.

I imagine once they apply that final layer, the lane will be painted the maroon/red colour.

[MolsonExport]

If only there was some way of clearing out all the junkies that plague downtown. It is proportionately worse than any city I have ever visited. It is like the situation in Vancouver's downtown-lower-East-side, but everywhere in downtown London.

I am very sympathetic to the underlying causes of drug addiction (and I feel that society has done little to address these issues), but just letting junkies roam freely downtown has made downtown a very unpleasant place for families to walk around.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I am very sympathetic to the underlying causes of drug addiction (and I feel that society has done little to address these issues), but just letting junkies roam freely downtown has made downtown a very unpleasant place for families to walk around.

Very true and by making it unpleasant for families, it hurts local businesses to boot which further leads to urban decay. In London it's particularly bad because you have one person who owns half of the Core who seems intent on making it the world's largest parking lot. Added to this the Core was already suffering due to the shut down of Dundas for 18 months and the BRT Loop construction................Downtown London has effectively been under 4 years of COVID shutdown.

Thankfully, with all the new apts/condos under construction and many more planned, downtown will resurge as local merchants enjoy a more immediate clientele. We must also remember that not only are these new people coming downtown but also they tend to be quite well off and educated..........they not only bring money but also the political power that comes with it. They will increasingly assert their power to get the city to remove these people from the downtown core probably by enforcing and creating new loitering laws.

[haljackey]

ah London- the 'do nothing' city that will throw $120 million of funding out the window.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/at-risk-of...oute-1.5736507

[MolsonExport]

London in the slow lane, as usual. Think small.

[ssiguy]

The best solution is to force Ottawa and CP to stop using the damn northern rail corridor, the one that crosses Richmond @ Oxford.

If the city could get it's hands on it, it would be a great corridor. The buses could run from the Loop up Richmond and then take the corridor west. They could have several routes use it with one off shooting at CherryHill and then heading north to Western with complete BRT centre running lanes and then ditto for one to Wonderland and then heading north serving all the apts at Wonderland & Oxford, the booming northern Wonderland & Fanshawe, and Sherwood Forest. Potentially they could do the same for Hyde Park.

If they could get the corridor, they would still be push back from Richmond Row and they won't get a BRT lane but certainly a left bus-only turning lane at the corridor and so they couldn't really bitch because it's just more buses. Also I think the merchants would be willing to make some small trade-offs knowing that such a plan would rid them of the damn train that terminally blocks Richmond and every Londoner would support finally being able to get rid of those damn trains. Using such a corridor would also be very easy to build and not involve any politically controversial items like housing appropriation or tree canopy destruction.

Over the long-term, securing the corridor could eventually result in extending the service further east making for a great cross-town route and hooking up with the Eastern BRT route at roughly Highbury.

[inimrepus]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The best solution is to force Ottawa and CP to stop using the damn northern rail corridor, the one that crosses Richmond @ Oxford.

This is completely unrealistic and simply won't happen. To re-route this around the city you are likely looking at billions of dollars. It means buying tons of land outside the city, building new crossings, bridges, and over/under passes.

Before somebody mentions it, you also can't build an over/under pass at this crossing because if you raise or lower the road you would need to remove the building next to it, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

[GreatTallNorth2]

The tunnel that started at Victoria Park was the solution

[jammer139]

Never going to happen in our lifetimes.

This is the CP main line that has right of way since before confederation and will be used as long as rail is a major transportation system

What is needed is for the city to widen and build north south primary roads with under or overpasses like what is planned for Adelaide. The Talbot St truck shredder underpass needs to be rebuilt and Richmond St needs either a underpass or overpass. If some of the low rise 2 story buildings on west side of Richmond need to be demolished or even the Shelby building then they got to go. I would go with the elevated overpass/roadway for Richmond at the CP tracks and utilize the space underneath for funky food trucks and retail spaces that tie back to the restaurants along the stretch of Richmond. Could be a lively bar patio scene under Richmond.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The best solution is to force Ottawa and CP to stop using the damn northern rail corridor, the one that crosses Richmond @ Oxford.

If the city could get it's hands on it, it would be a great corridor. The buses could run from the Loop up Richmond and then take the corridor west. They could have several routes use it with one off shooting at CherryHill and then heading north to Western with complete BRT centre running lanes and then ditto for one to Wonderland and then heading north serving all the apts at Wonderland & Oxford, the booming northern Wonderland & Fanshawe, and Sherwood Forest. Potentially they could do the same for Hyde Park.

If they could get the corridor, they would still be push back from Richmond Row and they won't get a BRT lane but certainly a left bus-only turning lane at the corridor and so they couldn't really bitch because it's just more buses. Also I think the merchants would be willing to make some small trade-offs knowing that such a plan would rid them of the damn train that terminally blocks Richmond and every Londoner would support finally being able to get rid of those damn trains. Using such a corridor would also be very easy to build and not involve any politically controversial items like housing appropriation or tree canopy destruction.

Over the long-term, securing the corridor could eventually result in extending the service further east making for a great cross-town route and hooking up with the Eastern BRT route at roughly Highbury.

[ssiguy]

If the City can't get CP to move, I'm sure it can get them to offer the use of the corridor itself. The corridor is a wide one all the way from Richmond out to the suburbs with more than enough room for BRT lanes with no interference with rail operations. Instead of turning at the tracks themselves, they could turn at Piccadilly and follow the corridor with the needed stations and overpasses. CP & CP have allowed such things in other cities and they generally have been OK with it as long as it doesn't interfere with them. CP also couldn't bitch that they need the corridor for a potential expansion when they have had it for over a hundred years and haven't done anything.

Besides the London-Port Stanley, it is the only useful corridor the city could use for transit. Yes, it would cost more money but I bet they could get it from Ottawa & QP especially now that Hamilton is getting a free LRT. The infrastructure costs would be higher but then there would be no expensive land acquisition and far less disruption in construction.

[haljackey]

Could we raise the rails rather than dig below Richmond?

There are a lot of issues lowering Richmond but if you can drop it say 1m without too much difficulty, you can then raise the tracks a few meters to get a overpass built.

The question is- is there enough room between the CP Thames River bridge and Richmond Street to properly grade/slope the tracks enough so it is high enough to go over Richmond?

Making the grade higher would also give you a chance to rebuild the Talbot Street underpass, and possibly build another one at St. George Street as well.

But this project would be very disruptive to the trains. The line may need to be closed for a while to do this kind of change. May not be possible.

-----

If this problem is solved, then the north leg becomes slightly more sell-able. You still have to convince the NIMBY residents and politicians that taking a lane away from Richmond for buses makes sense. I don't see this project finishing by 2027 when the funding must be used up. Best to dedicate lobbying for the BRT west line and using the funds that should have gone to the North line wherever else we can.

[inimrepus]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Could we raise the rails rather than dig below Richmond?

I remember reading an article asking this a few years ago (maybe 5 or 6). The short answer is that while it is technically possible, it can't realistically happen. It would be major construction that would disrupt all current trains. There isn't enough space beside the current tracks to build a raised track at the same time as operating the current tracks. Because of this they would need to do something similar to what they are doing with the new wharncliffe bridge where they are actually building a temporary bridge beside the current one while doing the construction for the permanent new bridge.

The reason this becomes unrealistic here is because it would need to be done for a much longer distance. Since trains can't deal with quick changes in elevation they would need to at minimum build or rebuild the crossings at Richmond, St. George St, Talbot, Oxford, Thames River, and Gunn St.

[ssiguy]

They don't need an overpass for a BRT at Richmond.

The route could simply takes Piccadilly and then merge onto the corridor itself. They would need BRT bridges over Oxford and to build the BRT roadway beside the rail line but that could easily be done without impacting CP operations.

CP/CN rarely have a problem with other agencies using their corridors as long as it doesn't effect their operations. GO and Vancouver's West Coast Express use their actual train tracks and for that matter so does VIA. I don't think they would have any problem using the corridor because it's wide enough.