Highways in Canada

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Imagine all of ON's King's Highways were all 400 series highways. A visitor would be confused about it. So, change the markings of NB 11 to not confuse visitors what it is. Or, change what NB considers a city.

I would not be adverse to the concept of using a different badge for fully grade separated dual carriageways. I think however this should be consistent nationwide. Ideally we should also have a consistent numbering system for these highways nationwide as well (like the US interstate system).

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I would not be adverse to the concept of using a different badge for fully grade separated dual carriageways. I think however this should be consistent nationwide. Ideally we should also have a consistent numbering system for these highways nationwide as well (like the US interstate system).

Not a bad idea. On a related note, I find it interesting that the popular online maps do not do a very good job of indicating multilane highways. You have to zoom in fairly close to see if a highway is 4 lanes or more. By contrast, the old fashioned paper highway maps generally do a good job of making this abundantly clear at a glance.

I wonder if this is an inherent bias of US-based mapmakers where the mere presence of an Interstate shield automatically tells you that it's a multilane freeway?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I would not be adverse to the concept of using a different badge for fully grade separated dual carriageways. I think however this should be consistent nationwide. Ideally we should also have a consistent numbering system for these highways nationwide as well (like the US interstate system).

Yeah, interesting how most provinces don't use different highway shields for different categories of highways. It's really only Quebec and Nova Scotia that do, right? (Though Ontario sort of gives you a clue with the 400 designation.)

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I would not be adverse to the concept of using a different badge for fully grade separated dual carriageways. I think however this should be consistent nationwide. Ideally we should also have a consistent numbering system for these highways nationwide as well (like the US interstate system).

First be consistent in the province before advocating nationwide.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, interesting how most provinces don't use different highway shields for different categories of highways. It's really only Quebec and Nova Scotia that do, right? (Though Ontario sort of gives you a clue with the 400 designation.)

Highways shields are different enough, but,yes between the 400 series and other King's Highways, there should be something different. Maybe the QEW colour scheme for the400 series would be good.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I hit a nerve.

A major city is where people from the area go for services.They tend to have bigger known stores, a major hospital, etc. Not all provinces have the same number of major cities.

NB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_New_Brunswick

They list 8 cities. Not all are connected. They have signed highways that show they are major highways to them, and it can be assumed they will be twinned. 3 of their 8 cities are not connected.


NS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_Nova_Scotia

The second largest municipality is not connected by a freeway. Of the top 10, Half only have a Super 2.

So, no, NS and NB, you do not have a good network. QC, you are not too bad, but needs work. And ON, please, can you twin one of the Trans Canada highways in Northern ON?

You didn't hit a nerve, you just are expecting smaller jurisdictions to have the same breadth of freeway coverage to the 'Top X number of cities', regardless of the size of the population of those places and the density they actually serve. A lot of these places are small towns by any standard and I don't know of any place that would build a freeway to such a remote place, even in the United States where the federal government came up with 90% of the cost.

At best, one might piggyback a small place onto a road that serves longer-haul traffic (as in NB 2, or much of the rural Interstate system), but that's about it.

So I don't see NB 1/2 as a failing. It is a small province that put a fair bit of effort into making a decent highway system of for the spread-out Mississauga-sized population it serves. Ontario has 20 times the number of people; I'd expect a better system there.

[craner]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not a bad idea. On a related note, I find it interesting that the popular online maps do not do a very good job of indicating multilane highways. You have to zoom in fairly close to see if a highway is 4 lanes or more. By contrast, the old fashioned paper highway maps generally do a good job of making this abundantly clear at a glance.

I wonder if this is an inherent bias of US-based mapmakers where the mere presence of an Interstate shield automatically tells you that it's a multilane freeway?

I agree - one of my pet peeves with online maps.

Actually I find openstreetmap.org pretty good with their color designations.

[SignalHillHiker]

I usually don't do this, but hey, why not - just wanted to say convo the past couple pages has been fascinating to read. Nice stuff!

[GreaterMontréal]

The A-55 between the A-30 and the A-20 will no longer be a Super 2 in 2029-2030. The MTQ has already begun the widening. That was the missing link in Southern Quebec. When I was a kid, the A-55 didn't even exist south of the St.Lawrence. We had to take the R-161 to go to Trois-Rivières and there was no link between Drummondville and Sherbrooke.

https://www.quebec.ca/transports/projets...oute-55-becancour-sainte-eulalie#c217497

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

You didn't hit a nerve, you just are expecting smaller jurisdictions to have the same breadth of freeway coverage to the 'Top X number of cities', regardless of the size of the population of those places and the density they actually serve. A lot of these places are small towns by any standard and I don't know of any place that would build a freeway to such a remote place, even in the United States where the federal government came up with 90% of the cost.

At best, one might piggyback a small place onto a road that serves longer-haul traffic (as in NB 2, or much of the rural Interstate system), but that's about it.

So I don't see NB 1/2 as a failing. It is a small province that put a fair bit of effort into making a decent highway system of for the spread-out Mississauga-sized population it serves. Ontario has 20 times the number of people; I'd expect a better system there.

It isn't a failing, but, it also isn't a pass either. It is more of a case of comparing highways throughout Canada. All provinces have their issues.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

many municipalities don't even use county road numbering (Toronto for example), while others use it sparingly (Hamilton only uses it as numbers on former provincial highways), and others plaster useless numbers on some, but not all urban arterial roads (Peel Region) for some reason.. It's just a massive mess.

Ottawa is even weirder as almost every arterial road & urban mainstreet in the whole city has an official number that exists on paper but all signage and real world use ignores them in favour of the street names, to the point where nobody knows what the numbers even are.

Yet the American tech companies always assume the numbers are used. The GPS voice for Android Auto in Ottawa will tell you to "continue on Regional Road 87 for 3 kilometers than turn left on Regional Road 22" and nobody knows what the f-- their car is saying. It's one of the local memes on Ottawa social media.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Imagine all of ON's King's Highways were all 400 series highways. A visitor would be confused about it. So, change the markings of NB 11 to not confuse visitors what it is. Or, change what NB considers a city.

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem. What confusion? Nobody accidentally wanders into Campbellton or Bathurst.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The A-55 between the A-30 and the A-20 will no longer be a Super 2 in 2029-2030. The MTQ has already begun the widening. That was the missing link in Southern Quebec. When I was a kid, the A-55 didn't even exist south of the St.Lawrence. We had to take the R-161 to go to Trois-Rivières and there was no link between Drummondville and Sherbrooke.

https://www.quebec.ca/transports/projets...oute-55-becancour-sainte-eulalie#c217497

Before Autoroute Joseph-Armand Bombardier was a thing? How old are you??

[lio45]

He can’t possibly be old enough to not have known Route 22 as a highway link between Sherbrooke and Drummondville :p

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The A-55 between the A-30 and the A-20 will no longer be a Super 2 in 2029-2030. The MTQ has already begun the widening. That was the missing link in Southern Quebec. When I was a kid, the A-55 didn't even exist south of the St.Lawrence. We had to take the R-161 to go to Trois-Rivières and there was no link between Drummondville and Sherbrooke.

https://www.quebec.ca/transports/projets...oute-55-becancour-sainte-eulalie#c217497

The super 2 segments on A-50 will also be twinned on a similar timeline though it will take a year or two more to get it all done.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Before Autoroute Joseph-Armand Bombardier was a thing? How old are you??

Well I am old enough to remember the super 2 segments of A-55 between Sherbrooke and Drummondville.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well I am old enough to remember the super 2 segments of A-55 between Sherbrooke and Drummondville.

On another note, I also don’t doubt that you remember when QC-185 used to be Route 2.

Ps: I’ve long suspected that Chemin de Rivière Verte between Rivière du Loup and Rivière-Verte* used to be Route 2. Since the whole stretch (of A85/Rte 185) from A20 to Route de la Station (de Rivière-Verte) was meant to be a freeway even before it was completely twinned, I had always been surprised that the segment from Exit 89 to Route de la Station was only signed as Rte-185 not A-85 before twinning.

PS2: *There’s also another Rivière-Verte on the Old Route 2 (now N.B.-144) in New Brunswick near Edmundston. I always find that super confusing, given the proximity between the 2 “Rivière-Verte” (~125 KM).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

On another note, I also don’t doubt that you remember when QC-185 used to be Route 2.

Actually, no I am too young for that!

All of the secondary highways have always been 148, 132, 138, 185 for me.

Though I have seen old maps where the highway on north shore of the Ottawa River between Hull and the northern fringes of Greater Montreal (today's 148) was Route 8 I think.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem. What confusion? Nobody accidentally wanders into Campbellton or Bathurst.

You are right. And if you are planning and you look at the shield colours, you would assume its all 4 lanes. Only to drive it and be sadly mistaken.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You are right. And if you are planning and you look at the shield colours, you would assume its all 4 lanes. Only to drive it and be sadly mistaken.

There would be no mistake in NB. All provincial trunks have the same shield (except for the TCH), whether it is divided or undivided. NBers are aware of this. There is nothing to suggest the roads are "special", so I don't imagine visitors would be caught unawares either.

We do not have 100 series highways like in NS, 400 series highways like in ON or provincial autoroutes like in QC.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There would be no mistake in NB. All provincial trunks have the same shield (except for the TCH), whether it is divided or undivided. NBers are aware of this. There is nothing to suggest the roads are "special", so I don't imagine visitors would be caught unawares either.

We do not have 100 series highways like in NS, 400 series highways like in ON or provincial autoroutes like in QC.

The shield colours are different. Those colours seem to mean something.