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  #1001  
Old Posted May 20, 2021, 7:22 PM
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"noting that many of the campers are uninsured and not in drivable condition."
This has always been the one thing that's always bothered me about a lot of these campers (and these are also probably the people who ruined it for everyone else).
Where do they find some of these disasters? The roofs are tarped because it leaks. Windows are taped up or boarded over. Some have stacks for stoves cut and tarred into the roof/wall and in several cases they're cinderblocks or completely sitting on their frame. Lets just ignore the fact some have not been washed in a long, long time. There's a significant distance from the fields they probably got pulled from but like, how did they manage to push/pull/drag some of these things into the city and how can you keep an uninsured car curbed for that long and not have more parking tickets than windshield?

Like, I don't have a problem with RV/camper living, as long as you are both keeping the vehicle clean and relocating regularly. That isn't hard to do, especially if you are saying you are living the camper life because it's cheaper than rent.
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  #1002  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2021, 6:57 PM
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Free hard drugs!!

I’m fairly open to different strategies. Not sure about this one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cit...-concerns/amp/
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  #1003  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2021, 7:51 PM
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"Free" a.k.a. paid by tax-payers. And of course Swanson was there on our dime.
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  #1004  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2021, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Free hard drugs!!

I’m fairly open to different strategies. Not sure about this one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cit...-concerns/amp/
If the fear of dying from a poisoned drug supply doesn't scare users off. What is giving them a clean supply going to do. It solves nothing.

1st time offenders arrested by police should be put in a 30 day program, 2nd time, 90 days. 3rd time 1 year.

Dealers 5 to 15 years in jail.

Zero Tolerance.
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  #1005  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2021, 8:05 PM
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"Free" a.k.a. paid by tax-payers. And of course Swanson was there on our dime.
drugs paid by the tax payer may be significantly cheaper to the tax payer than drugs paid by someone who needs to break into cars to supplement their income so they can afford drugs.

And by significantly cheaper, I mean it's basically free compared to what's being paid now in property damage, medical costs, police costs, judicial costs, insurance costs, victim trauma costs etc.

And considering that supplying free drugs breaks the economic incentive for the drug pushers in finding new clients, I can not understand why free drugs has not happened decades ago.

I would much rather have a drug addicted person dependent on our government rather than some gangster.
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  #1006  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2021, 8:37 PM
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I detest hard drugs, but giving them away (clean) is something we might as well try. If the petty crime and revolving emergency room time is cut down even by half, it's probably well worth it. This stuff costs literally pennies to make.
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  #1007  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2021, 9:10 PM
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I detest hard drugs, but giving them away (clean) is something we might as well try. If the petty crime and revolving emergency room time is cut down even by half, it's probably well worth it. This stuff costs literally pennies to make.
there will be costs to administer it of course. But i would still expect it to be cheaper than what's happening now.

There is already methadone being handed out for free (and alcohol for some people). It's not like other drugs will be a seismic shift in policy.
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  #1008  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2021, 9:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SeymourDrake View Post
If the fear of dying from a poisoned drug supply doesn't scare users off. What is giving them a clean supply going to do. It solves nothing.

1st time offenders arrested by police should be put in a 30 day program, 2nd time, 90 days. 3rd time 1 year.

Dealers 5 to 15 years in jail.

Zero Tolerance.
Amen to that! I don't know what this city is turning into. Drug addicts everywhere now.

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Originally Posted by djmk View Post
drugs paid by the tax payer may be significantly cheaper to the tax payer than drugs paid by someone who needs to break into cars to supplement their income so they can afford drugs.

And by significantly cheaper, I mean it's basically free compared to what's being paid now in property damage, medical costs, police costs, judicial costs, insurance costs, victim trauma costs etc.

And considering that supplying free drugs breaks the economic incentive for the drug pushers in finding new clients, I can not understand why free drugs has not happened decades ago.

I would much rather have a drug addicted person dependent on our government rather than some gangster.
They get free drugs, and then they break in in order to get more. Their new friends will soon join them since this is a free-for-all.
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  #1009  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2021, 11:19 PM
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I'm open to the idea, except this is an only in Vancouver thing. Another program that makes life easier for addicts, and makes Vancouver even more of a destination city for drug addicts. For that reason, I'm not super thrilled about this.
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  #1010  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2021, 11:51 PM
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I would let a failed city like San Francisco lead an experiment like this instead of us. They seem to spiral down the drain with their social experiments like making stealing goods worth less that $950 basically legal, resulting in a massive crime spree.

This won't make any difference in anything. Druggies will keep melting their brains and overdosing, and property will keep getting stolen just like before. Heavy users won't enjoy the free drugs as it's not going to be strong enough like the stuff on street market.

Hasn't the same also been a problem with the cannabis industry post-legalization, with most problem-users preferring the stuff their dealer's deal? I haven't seen any statistics suggesting legalization did anything to the profits of the criminals...
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  #1011  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2021, 3:34 AM
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I've never tried cocaine but hey if they're handing it out for free, it must be ok for me to give it a go. What could possibly go wrong.

This Portland/SF wannabe backwater has got to get a grip on reality.
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  #1012  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2021, 6:26 AM
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Originally Posted by djmk View Post
drugs paid by the tax payer may be significantly cheaper to the tax payer than drugs paid by someone who needs to break into cars to supplement their income so they can afford drugs.

And by significantly cheaper, I mean it's basically free compared to what's being paid now in property damage, medical costs, police costs, judicial costs, insurance costs, victim trauma costs etc.

And considering that supplying free drugs breaks the economic incentive for the drug pushers in finding new clients, I can not understand why free drugs has not happened decades ago.

I would much rather have a drug addicted person dependent on our government rather than some gangster.
Pretty much. It's harm reduction on a community scale. It solves nothing in terms of how to deal with addiction, but it does freezes out the gangs, gives the addict a safe supply so they don't OD or die on a bad product, which in turn clogs up hospitals, takes up police resources, and costs the taxpayers a lot of money.

On the face of it, it looks like compassion, but it's more of a fiscal, pragmatic approach.

What we are is a society that is out of ideas in regards to drug addiction. No one, and especially the taxpayer, wants to pay what it will cost to figure this problem out, so we may as well try to protect both the addict from dying and the citizen from the negative effects that surround an addict (robbing and stealing) until we have some kind of major breakthrough in how to stop these addictive practices.
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  #1013  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2021, 6:44 AM
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I'm not so sure giving out drugs will freeze out the gangsters. No more then ending prohibition ended the mob. That element will just move on to some other form of making money ie extortion, kidnapping or something else yet to come along. Getting as many people off of drugs as quickly as possible should be the goal, many of them want their lives back but what chance do they have? Even if they get into recovery they end up back in the dtes surrounded by their old friends that are still using, the dealers will continue preying on them until eventually they relapse and return to their old ways. It's going to take a multi faceted approach and yes likely locking certain people up, hospitalizing some and actively encouraging others to move somewhere else along with the services they require post rehab. I don't have much hope the current leaders have the willpower to do any of that. Free drugs has the earmark of this generations genocide, paved with good intentions but will be looked back at as destroying lives.
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  #1014  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2021, 3:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
I would let a failed city like San Francisco lead an experiment like this instead of us. They seem to spiral down the drain with their social experiments like making stealing goods worth less that $950 basically legal, resulting in a massive crime spree.

This won't make any difference in anything. Druggies will keep melting their brains and overdosing, and property will keep getting stolen just like before. Heavy users won't enjoy the free drugs as it's not going to be strong enough like the stuff on street market.

Hasn't the same also been a problem with the cannabis industry post-legalization, with most problem-users preferring the stuff their dealer's deal? I haven't seen any statistics suggesting legalization did anything to the profits of the criminals...
Interesting that you mention San Francisco rather than Portugal.

Or San Francisco rather than the other cities in California that have the same laws.

Perhaps there are other factors that lead to people to living on the street and taking drugs.
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  #1015  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2021, 4:36 PM
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Hasn't the same also been a problem with the cannabis industry post-legalization, with most problem-users preferring the stuff their dealer's deal? I haven't seen any statistics suggesting legalization did anything to the profits of the criminals...
Last I heard from about fall 2020 was that in illegal market went from 100% prior to legalization to 40%.

Not to mention the thousands of changes laid on folks for weed-related crimes and the crime cycle that breeds...
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  #1016  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2021, 7:53 PM
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Or San Francisco rather than the other cities in California that have the same laws.
Yeah, the new law is California wide and not just San Francisco. I am sure it is playing out the same way everywhere, though, but especially in San Francisco there has been so much crime following the law that stores are now cutting down on opening hours to try combating the problem.

That won't help though, as the recent egregious daytime robbery of Neiman Marcus department store on Union Square shows. Interesting to see when the first set of stores starts pulling out of these lost cities.
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  #1017  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2021, 8:18 PM
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I'm not so sure giving out drugs will freeze out the gangsters. No more then ending prohibition ended the mob. That element will just move on to some other form of making money ie extortion, kidnapping or something else yet to come along. Getting as many people off of drugs as quickly as possible should be the goal, many of them want their lives back but what chance do they have? Even if they get into recovery they end up back in the dtes surrounded by their old friends that are still using, the dealers will continue preying on them until eventually they relapse and return to their old ways. It's going to take a multi faceted approach and yes likely locking certain people up, hospitalizing some and actively encouraging others to move somewhere else along with the services they require post rehab. I don't have much hope the current leaders have the willpower to do any of that. Free drugs has the earmark of this generations genocide, paved with good intentions but will be looked back at as destroying lives.
Criminals still manufacture and import the drugs, except local government take tax payer's money to buy from criminals. City Hall is turning into a criminal organization.
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  #1018  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2021, 8:26 PM
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Interesting that you mention San Francisco rather than Portugal.

Or San Francisco rather than the other cities in California that have the same laws.

Perhaps there are other factors that lead to people to living on the street and taking drugs.
Like bad parenting and the North American social/cultural scourge when we can be liberal on virtually everything? Spanking by parents become illegal, kids get to do whatever they want, including taking marijuana, etc. Everything starts going down the drain from there. We have always wanted to be USA and now we are turning into one.

The Portuguese are culturally more family-oriented, and being a smaller country, have more cohesive families or relatives, and the attention of government, being close by. Even they are having a hard time controlling drugs, although the signs are improving. We are an individualistic society where one can get lost in this vast country, away from friends and relatives, and where the rights of individuals trumps over the society as a whole, or at least increasingly so. These facts alone will make the free choice of taking drugs turn us into a madhouse. And we keep letting this happen, which is why DTES, Granville Street and large parts of the city and province are getting worse now.
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  #1019  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 12:10 AM
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I've never tried cocaine but hey if they're handing it out for free, it must be ok for me to give it a go. What could possibly go wrong.
Clean Jean has the good shit. You should be fine. Should try everything at least once.
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  #1020  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
I'm not so sure giving out drugs will freeze out the gangsters. No more then ending prohibition ended the mob. That element will just move on to some other form of making money ie extortion, kidnapping or something else yet to come along. Getting as many people off of drugs as quickly as possible should be the goal, many of them want their lives back but what chance do they have? Even if they get into recovery they end up back in the dtes surrounded by their old friends that are still using, the dealers will continue preying on them until eventually they relapse and return to their old ways. It's going to take a multi faceted approach and yes likely locking certain people up, hospitalizing some and actively encouraging others to move somewhere else along with the services they require post rehab. I don't have much hope the current leaders have the willpower to do any of that. Free drugs has the earmark of this generations genocide, paved with good intentions but will be looked back at as destroying lives.
Good post. Agree with most of this.
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