Highway One Improvements: North Vancouver / Ironworkers Memorial Approach | Completed

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

So that's a total of $2 billion to add one travel lane in each direction plus two lanes on the bridge. Based on some US numbers, the capacity of a lane varies between 700 and 2,200 cars per hour, per lane depending on conditions. At the midpoint of 1,450 per hour you really aren't adding that much capacity during a two or three hour afternoon commuting crush, or Saturday morning when everyone is trying to get to get to Whistler at the same time. Compared to Skytrain which can move almost 30k people per hour and yeah, the investment in highway widening looks like throwing good money after bad.

The biggest problem with the bridge is the grading which has trucks trying to pull 40km up the bridge and then also having to merge back in before it gets to Cassiar.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

I'm aware this will never happen politically, and the lines on the map are rough without consideration of what's under them, but since we're discussing the highway and traffic flow:



A big part of the problem on the Upper Levels is that it is used as a local road in addition to being a highway. If there were several new local roads across the Capilano and Seymour rivers along with Lynn Creek, it would remove a lot of traffic from the highway.

I assume the new Cap Road interchange will involve some kind of local traffic roadway so those cars aren't getting on the highway. The only segment that might make some sense is an alternate way into Deep Cove. But it would more likely connect to Mt Seymour Pkwy through a new road on the east end of the Cap University campus.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I assume the new Cap Road interchange will involve some kind of local traffic roadway so those cars aren't getting on the highway. The only segment that might make some sense is an alternate way into Deep Cove. But it would more likely connect to Mt Seymour Pkwy through a new road on the east end of the Cap University campus.

These lines aren't what could be done as what would help existing travel patterns, since they are roughly drawn while ignoring the development/parks/etc underneath them. Pretty much any trip across the major rivers from central or upper areas involves the highway. There are local roads for parts of the trip but that usually means narrower streets and indirect routing to get around developments, parks and the like.

It's utterly unrealistic as those crossings would have to have been put in fifty plus years ago, so that development could form around them. The best we could probably hope for today is for frontage roads as part of a highway redevelopment, but even that is highly unlikely.

[Jimbo604]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

So nice to see that bus slide right onto the bridge with no trouble whatsoever at 4:10 into the video.

Source: Google Street View

The bus does jump right ahead. White plastic lane divider things don't go all the way back to the concrete. I wonder if anyone goes into the right lane in this gap and then straight through the red light skipping past everyone. (or stopping at light)

Also: third Lane to Lonsdale project! If I recall correctly, Mayor Mike said he supported the third lane extension to Lynn Valley exit.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Source: Google Street View

The bus does jump right ahead. White plastic lane divider things don't go all the way back to the concrete. I wonder if anyone goes into the right lane in this gap and then straight through the red light skipping past everyone. (or stopping at light)

It wouldn't surprise me. Assholes use the bus lanes on Georgia and Marine to skip the line all the time.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

It wouldn't surprise me. Assholes use the bus lanes on Georgia and Marine to skip the line all the time.

Yes, we were heading downtown on Sunday and watched as an SUV used the westbound bus lane from Capilano and Marine all the way up to the merge point on the Lions Gate Bridge.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

It wouldn't surprise me. Assholes use the bus lanes on Georgia and Marine to skip the line all the time.

Only because there hasn't been any cops enforcing it for 3-4 years. And the people who still think it's an EV lane.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

I'm aware this will never happen politically, and the lines on the map are rough without consideration of what's under them, but since we're discussing the highway and traffic flow:



A big part of the problem on the Upper Levels is that it is used as a local road in addition to being a highway. If there were several new local roads across the Capilano and Seymour rivers along with Lynn Creek, it would remove a lot of traffic from the highway.

If Translink has their way with the Transport 2050 plan something like this will happen at some point in the future. On page 138 of the full report there's three regional roads they outline, east-west connections on the North Shore, east-west connections in North Surrey, and a New Westminster bypass for highway/truck traffic.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by mcj

If Translink has their way with the Transport 2050 plan something like this will happen at some point in the future. On page 138 of the full report there's three regional roads they outline, east-west connections on the North Shore, east-west connections in North Surrey, and a New Westminster bypass for highway/truck traffic.

And on the next page we can read that any expansion of the TCH through North Van is unlikely.

Beyond the projects currently underway - the Pattullo Bridge replacement, George Massey Tunnel, Highway 1 widening... into Abbottsford... this region should have sufficient capacity on the controlled-access highway network to meet demand over the planning horizon of Transport 2050.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

And on the next page we can read that any expansion of the TCH through North Van is unlikely.

Which makes a new regional road the most likely option to alleviate Highway 1 congestion. Perhaps not exactly tvisforme's alignments but there's really only the two continuous East-West roads on the North Shore (Marine & Hwy 1), would make sense to add another.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by mcj

...Perhaps not exactly tvisforme's alignments but there's really only the two continuous East-West roads on the North Shore (Marine & Hwy 1), would make sense to add another.

Those lines were just lines in places that could work based on simple traffic flow, for discussion purposes. Unfortunately any real attempts at a new east-west road will encounter significant issues. For example, any new crossing into West Vancouver (other than perhaps completing the low road route) would require significant changes to narrow local roads and expensive houses. There's no easy way to make a direct route through the Edgemont Village area. The simplest route goes through the heart of the Village and the District is in the process of implementing a speed reduction due to congestion, while the most direct bypass of Edgemont goes through an elementary school zone. Queens Road is offset from 29th, Lynn Valley Centre blocks easy connections between 29th and the east, Kirkstone and William are offset, and so on. It is as if the planners not only avoided creating east-west routes but actively sought out ways to ensure they'd never work.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Those lines were just lines in places that could work based on simple traffic flow, for discussion purposes. Unfortunately any real attempts at a new east-west road will encounter significant issues. For example, any new crossing into West Vancouver (other than perhaps completing the low road route) would require significant changes to narrow local roads and expensive houses. There's no easy way to make a direct route through the Edgemont Village area. The simplest route goes through the heart of the Village and the District is in the process of implementing a speed reduction due to congestion, while the most direct bypass of Edgemont goes through an elementary school zone. Queens Road is offset from 29th, Lynn Valley Centre blocks easy connections between 29th and the east, Kirkstone and William are offset, and so on. It is as if the planners not only avoided creating east-west routes but actively sought out ways to ensure they'd never work.

I really don't see how you bridge Capilano or Lynn. The environmental impacts, the terrain, the NIMBYs, the golf course, the cemetery, Cap U, etc. would all turn building any connections into a nightmare.

I think the best you can do is build a diversion between Queens and 29th (demolish an entire city block... yikes) and then maybe curve 29th so it meets Lynn perpendicularly at 27th (and demolish another city block).

Better connections in lower West Van would be easy since it's mostly built on a grid but leave upper West Van and Deep Cove alone... that's probably what the residents want anyways.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I really don't see how you bridge Capilano or Lynn. The environmental impacts, the terrain, the NIMBYs, the golf course, the cemetery, Cap U, etc. would all turn building any connections into a nightmare.

I think the best you can do is build a diversion between Queens and 29th (demolish an entire city block... yikes) and then maybe curve 29th so it meets Lynn perpendicularly at 27th (and demolish another city block).

Better connections in lower West Van would be easy since it's mostly built on a grid but leave upper West Van and Deep Cove alone... that's probably what the residents want anyways.

The simple answer is, or course, you don't. The problem is that all of the places you can most easily get away with it are down around the same level as Marine Drive and Main Street, which just exacerbates the issues we have with funnelling so much traffic into the same space. The only place I could see a realistic possibility to sell a higher-level local crossing over Capilano is perhaps between Capilano and Keith or Inglewood as a part of or in conjunction with the replacement of the highway bridge. For Lynn Creek, the best chance might be to extend Dempsey across to Lillooet. It is going through a park, but it would be the least disruptive to existing neighbourhoods and it would connect Lillooet to the established Montroyal-Braemar-Dempsey high route.

EDIT: According to a DNV road study from 2013, "Dempsey...was originally designed to connect with a north extension of Lillooet Road for possible development opportunities on the east side of Lynn Creek. Since these developments are not likely going to occur in the foreseeable future, Dempsey Road is not likely to be extended and
the current road could be considered overbuilt with less than 2,500 vehicles per day. For this reason, it is proposed that Dempsey Road be reclassified from a minor arterial road to a collector road.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

I'm aware this will never happen politically, and the lines on the map are rough without consideration of what's under them, but since we're discussing the highway and traffic flow:



A big part of the problem on the Upper Levels is that it is used as a local road in addition to being a highway. If there were several new local roads across the Capilano and Seymour rivers along with Lynn Creek, it would remove a lot of traffic from the highway.

that road going past CapU would relieve a lot of pressure during traffic jams when people just want to get to Seymour Parkway.

However, thats some steep terrain and just a tad to close to Lynn Canyon Suspension Bridge for the locals to stomach

[Jimbo604]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Thanks for Reddit meme about adding lanes ad infinitum.

It's merges that really slow things down. Eg top of cut merge, George Massey tunnel, Oak Street Bridge, etc. Look at the port Mann, they got rid of merges and now it goes.

[Bobert]

Minister of Transport says talks are happening regarding a potential Ironworkers Memorial Replacement

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/0...nt-bc-transit/

This will also be the route for any future skytrain expansion on the north shore

[mcj]

Originally Posted by Bobert

Minister of Transport says talks are happening regarding a potential Ironworkers Memorial Replacement

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/0...nt-bc-transit/

This will also be the route for any future skytrain expansion on the north shore

Two birds, meet stone.

Ideally it'll be Skytrain in the middle or on a lower deck, with separated through-traffic lanes for those not exiting before Lynn Valley northbound and those not exiting before 1st ave southbound akin to the Port Mann.

[Helvetia]

Originally Posted by mcj

Two birds, meet stone.

Ideally it'll be Skytrain in the middle or on a lower deck, with separated through-traffic lanes for those not exiting before Lynn Valley northbound and those not exiting before 1st ave southbound akin to the Port Mann.

BC's version of the Champlain Bridge!

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by mcj

Two birds, meet stone.

Ideally it'll be Skytrain in the middle or on a lower deck, with separated through-traffic lanes for those not exiting before Lynn Valley northbound and those not exiting before 1st ave southbound akin to the Port Mann.

Lower deck would provide snow protection for the LIM rail, but if it's cable stayed (with concrete box girder), I would expect one deck (double deck would probably require steel construction (?)).

[madog222]

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