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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
Yes I have the same concern. While congestion pricing would address these issues by improving the speed of surface transit allowing for more capacity to be run, there hasn't been any serious talk on implementing it in Toronto afaik. The transportation system is very much just that. A system. Make a change to one aspect and you need to make corresponding changes to others. As someone in a smaller urban area I realize it doesn't require an extensive subway network since distances around 10km can easily done by surface transit. I do it all the time and it's fine if the roads aren't congested. And the door to door travel time isn't necessarily that much greater since you don't need to worry about parking. But without a way for transit to bypass congestion, be it dedicated lanes or congestion pricing, it just doesn't work very well.
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There was a serious proposal to toll the Gardiner and DVP around 2017, but the provincial government blocked it.
There have been baby steps - the half-baked RapidTO (painted bus lanes), the King Street project, but they are accompanied by service cuts and reliability degradation. Typical Toronto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
If that is in fact the goal, then discouraging people from using less efficient modes and nudging them toward more efficient modes would definitely help achieve it. But yes, bikes are not the sole solution. Not everyone has the physical capability, sometimes you're carrying too much stuff, and sometimes the weather is crap. If you cut back on automobile flow by 50%, walking and biking can make up perhaps 1/5 if you're lucky, but transit would need to do the rest.
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It's never a magic number - induced demand works both ways. If you reduce road lanes, people will get around. If you remove a driving lane (or even better, parking) for a bike lane, people will figure it out.
As for the possibility of biking, the limitations are as much cultural as physical.
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Originally Posted by GeneralLeeTPHLS
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I find the implementation of bike lanes curious due to how half-baked the whole process feels. I didn't mind seeing an aggressive implementation of them in the city during the pandemic, but the overall plan clearly wasn't fully thought out when it comes to traffic flow and the fact that a substantial amount of people who want to drive will drive downtown.
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Cars are not an efficient use of land in the country's most valuable real estate. We are very good at making master plans, and not very good at implementing them. I much prefer a disjointed network that can be filled in, rather than a master plan that takes 30 years to implement and is only ever half built anyways.
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin
King St. IMO is a good example of an imitative that made it unnecessarily difficult to drive. The streetcar ROW was sorely needed, but I'd rather have seen the right lane maintained as a through traffic lane (with no stopping allowed. And no left turns obviously) than the convoluted system of making everyone turn right at the end of each block, which has the effect of just pushing traffic to adjacent streets.
Either that, or just go full pedestrianised transit mall. The current arrangement is an awkward compromise.
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If King Street became car-free, we will inevitably get complaints about how road capacity is being reduced.
The King Street project improved reliability, which was a major improvement. You can consistently plan around a 30 minute trip, can't plan if it takes 15 minutes on Monday and 45 minutes on Wednesday.
Steve Munro article on the King St Pilot Project
Unfortunately, lack of enforcement has reduced its effectiveness - but it is taking less road capacity than a full closure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin
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Or, projects like University Ave. where the needs of a major vehicular thoroughfare need to be weighed against the need for more park space (I'm still undecided on this one).
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University Avenue isn't congested even during peak periods, it's not an ideal use of space. I for one, would rather get rid of that traffic sewer.