Official Fredericton, NB projects thread

[Taeolas]

Hopefully McGinnis is replaced quickly.

King Street might be trickier to replace. If it wasn't for Brewbakers, I'd say take both buildings down and combine for a major development all along King street. Still, it's a busy street with free evening parking (if somewhat risky), so I'm sure someone will grab the King street space.

Is there room in that building to put in a microbrewery? Seems like the latest fad in restaurants downtown.

[OliverD]

Both the Ale House and McGinnis spaces are huge. I think this, along with Rustico's struggles, is evidence that these large restaurants don't really work in Fredericton. Meanwhile the small quality spots like 540 thrive.

[Freddypop]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Both the Ale House and McGinnis spaces are huge. I think this, along with Rustico's struggles, is evidence that these large restaurants don't really work in Fredericton. Meanwhile the small quality spots like 540 thrive.

While it's unfortunate that these places failed the reality is that bars/restaurants come and go all the time. That's the way it is. They constantly have to reinvent themselves to stay current and relevant. Once in a while there comes a unique spot that has super food or atmosphere that ends up as a destination spot for those reasons but those establishments are few and very far between. IMHO, Freddy is on the cusp of major changes in the downtown restaurant scene due in part by the population growth and the influx of new immigrants. I have no doubt that the places mentioned above and others will be filled soon with new and exciting offerings.

[cl812]

In my personal opinion neither mcginnis nor the ale house were spectacular, I found the food at both over priced and just ok in terms of quality. So not terribly surprised by either of these closures. I have no problem paying more but expect the food quality to match the price.

[Blue Blazer]

starbucks will replace second cup in kings place. I prefer second cup but then again I am never downtown

[starburns42]

Originally Posted by Blue Blazer

starbucks will replace second cup in kings place. I prefer second cup but then again I am never downtown

Here's the article:

https://huddle.today/starbucks-will-...gs-place-mall/

I like second cup but I feel like the shop there was outdated anyway.. I hope it's starbucks reserve or starbucks evenings

[Tridus]

Things downtown is also closing: https://huddle.today/fredericton-hea...fter-26-years/

Seems legalization was not their friend:

Owner Jackie Veinott told Huddle the mass commercialization of cannabis paraphernalia following legalization was the main cause for the store’s closure.

“What’s happened is there are chain stores open and selling it now. So when Things opened its doors in December 1992, there was nobody selling this but us,” says Veinott. “For 26 years we broke the law. We really broke the law. It was technically illegal to sell all of this stuff. We were the second longest-running head shop in Canada.”

[OliverD]

Cool aerial pic of the Fredericton while the Westmorland bridge was being constructed.

[Trefry]

Hey everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster haha.
In response to the rumors regarding St.Louis Bar and Grill coming to Fredericton. I can indeed confirm that this is happening. Was speaking with their corporate people today. Not sure where it's going for sure, but they're in "The planning stages for Fredericton" and do not have an exact timeline yet. But they are coming!

[Freddypop]

Originally Posted by Trefry

Hey everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster haha.
In response to the rumors regarding St.Louis Bar and Grill coming to Fredericton. I can indeed confirm that this is happening. Was speaking with their corporate people today. Not sure where it's going for sure, but they're in "The planning stages for Fredericton" and do not have an exact timeline yet. But they are coming!

Trefry....Welcome to the Freddy forum! And thanks for sharing this info with the group. Feel free to contribute, discuss, comment where/when you are willing and able

[FreddyGuy]

I hate to sound mean but I see these business closing and using excuses like the economy and construction, it reflects poorly on our economy and our city but I don't think that is the case. The sad reality is they weren't the A performers. I don't disagree, in a booming economy lack luster businesses will survive longer but ultimately they are just surviving. Despite the terrible construction this past summer, it seemed to me that Cannon's was always full when I went and that was WAY worse than any construction downtown. I believe that people will seek out good businesses regardless of the inconvenience. The stats are there, you can't argue that people are eating out more than ever, they are just eating somewhere else.

Ale House- Food was bland and uninspired. I remember being so excited to try their in house smoked brisket and being so disappointed with how boring it was when it arrived. The other dishes I tried were always alright, but not worth writing home about. When they left the Garrison it was like they lost all their personality. It was a good place to bring groups because it was so big and you could always count on a B meal here. Everything would be OK but it wasn't enough when your competitors are all upping their game.

McGinnis- My wife and I took some out-of-town friends here this summer (her idea) and we all wished we had gone somewhere else when the food arrived. Boring, no flavor, over priced. I don't know how anyone could make nachos so boring but they did. One layer of chips with hardly any toppings and they where like $17 bucks.

Things- I can't really comment on because I've never been but they seem to be the ones pushing the motive of construction slowing business...They are downtown on a main street, you couldn't park anywhere near where they are regardless. If you wanted to go there, you would go find a parking spot downtown like you always did. I won't speculate, but people didn't stop going here because of construction.

Franks- Of course is re-opened now under new ownership, which is great, I wish them the best of luck and based on the new owner's past endeavors, I'm sure it will be great. Before that, the food was bland and uninspired. It tasted like something that was previously frozen and re-heated when you got there.

Anyway, it's sad to see these business close and I don't mean to sound hurtful but it's the truth. Good businesses will always thrive regardless of their surroundings. This should not prevent other businesses or entrepreneurs from coming here, please don't be one of the ones pushing this false narrative that the economy is struggling and we need to do more to compensate business for construction.

[cl812]

^^^

Couldn't agree more. I think it is more important to consider the net change, pretty sure there would be a net increase in businesses downtown recently and given all the development occurring/planned and the demand for housing, downtown seems to be on the upswing.

[OliverD]

You're absolutely right. And what people are ignoring are all the newer businesses that have opened, or the ones that are expanding. Some of those will survive and some won't. But the reality is that there are very few vacant storefronts downtown.

[Taeolas]

I agree, I think the fact that there were 3 high profile closures (Franks, McGinnis and Ale House) coming over the holidays made it seem worse than it actually was.

I'm not really a target demographic for Ale House so I can't say what its food was like. I've been to Franks maybe once a season or twice a year or so; and I know I've been finding the food more and more lackluster, making me less likely to go back. McGinnis was a place that was always just 'there', and one I've considered going to but never really felt I had a reason to.

In any case, the churn feels bad, but with the announcements of the new places coming in (and Franks reviving today), I don't think we're in as bad a shape as the Doom and Gloomers might have us believe.

People do have faith in the Freddy market; just seeing all the places coming back makes that obvious. Looking at Regent mall, it's practically full and according to the Retail Talk FB page, construction on the Sears space should start soon.

Corbett Centre is also full with businesses that seem stable.

Uptown Centre just had a major rebuild at one end with the anchor shift, and the other end will be full by summer.

Kings Place seems to be doing well; it could use a refresher, but despite Second Cup closing, Starbux is coming in. Would be nice to see some activity on the Reads space; another downtown market would be perfect there IMO; maybe an Asian market so it doesn't compete much with Victory.

Even Brookside Mall which has long languished with empty space is really picking up now that Hart has moved in and the Zellers space has filled in.

2NC will hopefully start picking up now too with the Roundabout done. SMEC's new gas station (and minimall?) is coming along, with a HUGE building. They're clearly expecting to have more in there than just a simple gas station.

Sure all these closures and stopped projects can be depressing at times; but looking at the bigger picture, Freddy is looking to be in good, if not excellent shape. We need to keep working to make sure the picture stays good; but we certainly are not on the edge of total collapse as some might have us believe.

[kirjtc2]

In some happier downtown news, a new music/art cafe is going in the former Geek Chic location on Regent. Uncle Rob from 105.3 the Fox is one of the investors.

https://huddle.today/the-tipsy-muse-...d-watch-bands/

[Freddypop]

Originally Posted by FreddyGuy

I hate to sound mean but I see these business closing and using excuses like the economy and construction, it reflects poorly on our economy and our city but I don't think that is the case. The sad reality is they weren't the A performers. I don't disagree, in a booming economy lack luster businesses will survive longer but ultimately they are just surviving. Despite the terrible construction this past summer, it seemed to me that Cannon's was always full when I went and that was WAY worse than any construction downtown. I believe that people will seek out good businesses regardless of the inconvenience. The stats are there, you can't argue that people are eating out more than ever, they are just eating somewhere else.

Ale House- Food was bland and uninspired. I remember being so excited to try their in house smoked brisket and being so disappointed with how boring it was when it arrived. The other dishes I tried were always alright, but not worth writing home about. When they left the Garrison it was like they lost all their personality. It was a good place to bring groups because it was so big and you could always count on a B meal here. Everything would be OK but it wasn't enough when your competitors are all upping their game.

McGinnis- My wife and I took some out-of-town friends here this summer (her idea) and we all wished we had gone somewhere else when the food arrived. Boring, no flavor, over priced. I don't know how anyone could make nachos so boring but they did. One layer of chips with hardly any toppings and they where like $17 bucks.

Things- I can't really comment on because I've never been but they seem to be the ones pushing the motive of construction slowing business...They are downtown on a main street, you couldn't park anywhere near where they are regardless. If you wanted to go there, you would go find a parking spot downtown like you always did. I won't speculate, but people didn't stop going here because of construction.

Franks- Of course is re-opened now under new ownership, which is great, I wish them the best of luck and based on the new owner's past endeavors, I'm sure it will be great. Before that, the food was bland and uninspired. It tasted like something that was previously frozen and re-heated when you got there.

Anyway, it's sad to see these business close and I don't mean to sound hurtful but it's the truth. Good businesses will always thrive regardless of their surroundings. This should not prevent other businesses or entrepreneurs from coming here, please don't be one of the ones pushing this false narrative that the economy is struggling and we need to do more to compensate business for construction.

I feel for those who have lost or losing their business but I agree with your post above. The marketplace will drive the business. If the service/product is good then people will support it. If not then you'll be out of business. I think this year is no different than past years re the number of closures except that this year we have a few that are perhaps Freddy staples and/or higher profile businesses ie McGinnis. No one is listing the number of new locations that have opened or about to be opened. Downtown is in transition and that is always a good thing in my books.

[Franco401]

Construction keeps coming up, has anybody heard anyone say at any point all year that they didn't go downtown, especially to a particular restaurant, because of construction? Gimme a break. The two-block detour caused by the Officer's Square work shouldn't have motivated anyone to take their business elsewhere, nor the Carleton Street closure.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by Franco401

Construction keeps coming up, has anybody heard anyone say at any point all year that they didn't go downtown, especially to a particular restaurant, because of construction? Gimme a break. The two-block detour caused by the Officer's Square work shouldn't have motivated anyone to take their business elsewhere, nor the Carleton Street closure.

Admittedly, I don't do much shopping downtown, but I do go down regularly about once a week, usually Friday or Saturdays. (Every 2 weeks on Saturday to Strange Adventures, and every 2 weeks on Fridays to MetagameZ/ComicHunter).

I'll often go to the Mid East Eatery for dinner on those Fridays too.

Plus I'll often go downtown on the weekend for Pokemon Go events as well.

Ultimately, the construction didn't stop my downtown plans, and if anything made some of the PokeGO events easier. MetaGameZ closing hindered me more than the construction did.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Franco401

Construction keeps coming up, has anybody heard anyone say at any point all year that they didn't go downtown, especially to a particular restaurant, because of construction? Gimme a break. The two-block detour caused by the Officer's Square work shouldn't have motivated anyone to take their business elsewhere, nor the Carleton Street closure.

Personally, no. In my group of friends we go downtown frequently regardless of construction. But, there's a big segment of the population who perceives downtown to be an undesirable destination to begin with, and construction may have been a further incentive to keep them away.

Construction just means downtown is getting better though. It's short term pain for long term gain.

In better news, Bruce Grandy posted on Twitter that year end development numbers were $138M this year, up from $118M in 2017.

[Tridus]

Originally Posted by Franco401

Construction keeps coming up, has anybody heard anyone say at any point all year that they didn't go downtown, especially to a particular restaurant, because of construction? Gimme a break. The two-block detour caused by the Officer's Square work shouldn't have motivated anyone to take their business elsewhere, nor the Carleton Street closure.

Yes. Absolutely. When we plan office lunches out, the main restriction is "not downtown." Nobody wants to deal with that when the Uptown/Northside places are so much easier to get to.

Anytime you put traffic obstacles near a business, that business takes a hit. That's not abnormal, it happens everywhere, and it's not hard to verify. So the idea that construction has nothing to do with it is simply false.

That said, it's also true that the more attractive and stronger businesses will still draw despite it. Cannons Cross had absolutely brutal construction around it three summers in a row and still drew people in, although I'm sure they'll be pretty happy to not have to deal with that this year (hopefully!).

If you look at the places that closed, King Street Ale House also mentioned that their space is simply too big for the current craft beer market. When the Garrison first opened there simply wasn't a lot like that, and when it was kicked out and became KSAH, there wasn't nearly as many options. Now the breweries themselves have places to get a drink and a bite to eat, craft beer is all over the place, and the market is far more saturated. In a smaller building they likely would have been alright, but the overhead on a space that large is pretty tough with so much competition.

Things mentioned in the Huddle article their real problem: they used to be the only place selling a lot of those items, and then legalization happened. Now you can buy some of that stuff at Circle K, and business tanked as a result. The market simply shifted under them. That happens all the time and is just an unfortunate reality of business.

Franks and McGinness Landing are two places I found so poor and uninteresting that I honestly don't know how they stayed open as long as they did. Franks was not helped at all by moving, that much is for sure. With the roundabout open, the new place should do better if they can get the food quality up.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rustico have problems too, that space is huge and the word of mouth I keep hearing is pretty medicore.