YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Maybe the issue is the 1 per week part...

If I'm on vacation, I don't want to limit the length to either 7 or 14 days...

And Snap!

[LeftCoaster]

Fair, certainly a counter intuitive rational at first but does seem somewhat logical on a second look.

Almost seems like this could be a successful Rouge route then, if it goes 3xPW and benefits from ACs strong feeder network into YVR.

Any idea what happens to the A330 Transat was using on this frequency? Could they run it somewhere else or will we see an existing Transat location given another frequency?

[Cage]

Groupe TransAt has sold off their French and Italian tour operations to another firm. If the YVR-FCO route was dependent upon package tour operations in order to be successful (or even break even), losing the Italian connection to hotel and tour discounts could make the flight portion unprofitable.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Cage

Groupe TransAt has sold off their French and Italian tour operations to another firm. If the YVR-FCO route was dependent upon package tour operations in order to be successful (or even break even), losing the Italian connection to hotel and tour discounts could make the flight portion unprofitable.

That would certainly do it.

Rouge is certainly going head to head with some Transat routes in Europe.

Nothing from YVR has been announced yet......

[nname]

Seems like TS is cutting alot of routes out of YVR (or western Canada in general)

CDG seems to be down to 1 weekly, and AMS is down to 2 weekly.

YYC-CDG, on the other hand, is down to 1 flight for the entire season

[LeftCoaster]

That's 4 flights per week, almost an entire plane. I wonder if they pulled one plane out of rotation at YVR and sent it to YYZ/YUL.

That would almost be good news as it would not signal individual route weakness but an equipment re-allocation.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Interesting, because in a confidential "route demand" graph I received some years back, Paris was at the top, followed by Melbourne, Rome, and DBX, all at about the same level.
And with the large Italian population in Vancouver, I thought it might be viable, though I guess it's a "family" and "tourist" route, and has scant potential for business class yield.

The large population of Italians in Vancouver have been here long enough so that they pretty much consider Vancouver home.

Interestingly, though... there is a considerable emigration from Italy. We're seeing newer and younger Italian speaking people coming into Vancouver because of the long protracted economic issues in Italy.

Italy is also a gateway country for many nations, for example, in Africa. Many of them immigrate to Italy, work to get EU citizenship and ditch Italy (usually for UK, but sometimes they'll come to NA if they have connections here). It's easier to move from Italy to other places in the EU (obviously) and it's easier to move to Canada/USA from Italy than from places like Ghana, Nigeria, etc.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Seems like TS is cutting alot of routes out of YVR (or western Canada in general)

CDG seems to be down to 1 weekly, and AMS is down to 2 weekly.

YYC-CDG, on the other hand, is down to 1 flight for the entire season

Yup... CDG down to one weekly but AMS still at three weekly? 2 nonstop and 1 one stop via YYC.

YYC-CDG appears to be gone altogether - it was only once weekly anyway

So YVR looks like they are losing 2 weekly direct Europe flights (2 to CDG and 1 to FCO but gaining +1 to MAN)... Makes you wonder if they know something!

[casper]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yup... CDG down to one weekly but AMS still at three weekly? 2 nonstop and 1 one stop via YYC.

YYC-CDG appears to be gone altogether - it was only once weekly anyway

So YVR looks like they are losing 2 weekly direct Europe flights (2 to CDG and 1 to FCO but gaining +1 to MAN)... Makes you wonder if they know something!

I thought Transat was adding a domestic flight to feed flights out of Toronto and Montreal. If that is the case it may be more a strategy to use the 737 domestically and operate a hub operation. Until now Transat has mostly been a point to point airline.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by casper

I thought Transat was adding a domestic flight to feed flights out of Toronto and Montreal. If that is the case it may be more a strategy to use the 737 domestically and operate a hub operation. Until now Transat has mostly been a point to point airline.

That's exactly what they are doing:

1) adding a daily 738 nonstop YVR - YYZ departing at 11:10am
2) adding twice weekly 738 nonstop YVR - YUL

Last summer they had three weekly YVR-YYZ only (2 nonstop and 1 via YYC)

So from a seats/capacity POV TS will actually have more seats from YVR next summer just a shift from International direct to Domestic to International connections. Will see how successful they are!

[Orcair]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

That's exactly what they are doing:

1) adding a daily 738 nonstop YVR - YYZ departing at 11:10am
2) adding twice weekly 738 nonstop YVR - YUL

Last summer they had three weekly YVR-YYZ only (2 nonstop and 1 via YYC)

So from a seats/capacity POV TS will actually have more seats from YVR next summer just a shift from International direct to Domestic to International connections. Will see how successful they are!

Damn. I was hoping they would put the 313 on the YUL route, so I could finally catch it! Oh well.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Orcair

Damn. I was hoping they would put the 313 on the YUL route, so I could finally catch it! Oh well.

Well a lot of the YUL flying next summer will be on 313s vs the 332s/333s so you have a chance if you head to Europe from there.

[Orcair]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Well a lot of the YUL flying next summer will be on 313s vs the 332s/333s so you have a chance if you head to Europe from there.

That's reassuring! Thanks for letting me know

[SFUVancouver]

It's a bit off topic, and definitely a humble brag, but I had a pretty cool day and got to spend some time in and around this beauty down in Quito, Ecuador.

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

But that's probably it. You've answered your question....

1) Once per week flights struggle by just their nature. Doesn't make trips flexible. Minimum stay one week and then trips by the week. One, two , three.... So even though it's a leisure route. So many one stop options available between YVR and FCO.

2) low yield model meaning b/e LF so much higher. So TS would have really had to fill those seats. Even a LF around 80% would struggle on a longer thinner route like YVR-FCO. Perhaps the loads were there but I actually thought the viability of this route would have been a struggle.

Once per week definitely limits your target audience. I'd go to fathom that route needs to be minimum 3x/week to be a viable option. So many people have jobs that just don't allow you to take either a 7day/14day straight vacation, and even if it did maybe not starting on the one day the flight runs.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

The large population of Italians in Vancouver have been here long enough so that they pretty much consider Vancouver home.

Interestingly, though... there is a considerable emigration from Italy. We're seeing newer and younger Italian speaking people coming into Vancouver because of the long protracted economic issues in Italy.

Italy is also a gateway country for many nations, for example, in Africa. Many of them immigrate to Italy, work to get EU citizenship and ditch Italy (usually for UK, but sometimes they'll come to NA if they have connections here). It's easier to move from Italy to other places in the EU (obviously) and it's easier to move to Canada/USA from Italy than from places like Ghana, Nigeria, etc.

Is there not, in that case, some justification for a YVR - FCO route?

[mezzanine]

some news about iran requestng talks wrt direct flights to iran from canada.

YYZ will likely be first if flights are ever started. interestingly, from LAX it's closer to transfer in YVR than YYZ.

Tehran submitted a “formal” request to Canada to sign an “air transport agreement in place,” according to a source familiar with the matter, who is not authorized to speak publicly. Such an agreement would establish air links between Iran and Canada.

Specifically, Iran wants the aircraft Iranian airlines can land in Canada and that Canadian commercial aircraft can do the same in Iran. Canada has “agreements on air transport” with 101 countries in the world. Iran, meanwhile, has signed more than thirty.

‘Formal request’ was submitted to Canada this year by the Organization of Iranian civil aviation, but no response has yet been given by Ottawa, according to the CBC has learned. The Canadian Foreign Ministry, which handles such requests, refused to confirm or deny the information.

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/nat...an-canada-avion-bombardier-liaison.shtml

http://www.aviationgazette.com/direct-flights-from-iran-to-canada/

[Cage]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Is there not, in that case, some justification for a YVR - FCO route?

While there may be a business case for YVR-FCO summer seasonal service, the big challenge is that YYZ-FCO is a mainline flight. As of today, AC has not comingled international out stations between mainline and rouge.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Cage

While there may be a business case for YVR-FCO summer seasonal service, the big challenge is that YYZ-FCO is a mainline flight. As of today, AC has not comingled international out stations between mainline and rouge.

When LAX/SFO was rouge'd out of YVR, wasn't YYZ still mainline?

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

some news about iran requestng talks wrt direct flights to iran from canada.

YYZ will likely be first if flights are ever started. interestingly, from LAX it's closer to transfer in YVR than YYZ.




http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/nat...an-canada-avion-bombardier-liaison.shtml

http://www.aviationgazette.com/direct-flights-from-iran-to-canada/

There's been a bit of chatter on this over at A.net

I noted this a while back that with the Persian diaspora in Vancouver quite large this seemed like a strong possible flight. It certainly helps that the diaspora here is predominantly quite wealthy and educated. Seems logical to start with YYZ then move pretty quickly to YVR.

LAX could support its own multiple daily flights I'm sure, but if Canada can beat the US to opening bilateral restrictions we may be able to snag some early traffic from LA to help start the route.

A little info about the Persian diaspora in Canada, the community is nearly as large in Vancouver as it is in Toronto, despite the GTA being over twice the population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Canadians