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  #10041  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 5:18 PM
ConundrumNL ConundrumNL is offline
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A study performed a few years on a NF to LAB Fixed Link
https://www.gov.nl.ca/publicat/fixedlink/pdf/completereport.pdf
     
     
  #10042  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 5:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
Vancouver Island’s a bit different. I’d rather wait for the big one to happen first, assess the damage after, then decide.
I think there is the potential to stimulate a lot of economic activity in the Sunshine Coast by building a bridge across Howe Sound (via Bowen Island to Gibsons), then up the coast beyond Powell River and hopscotch across to Vancouver Island at Campbell River via Cortes, Read and Quadra Islands.

No single bridge would be too long to build, and it would open up a lot of land for development down the road.

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  #10043  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ConundrumNL View Post
Lol. Misguided mega projects are a key component of the NL economy.

The FL is something that's brought up every few years as a replacement for for the NS ferry. Nothing comes of it, except maybe a study.

It's a non-starter for several reasons. A few that come to mind:

- Quebec would need to link up the two ends of Route 138 to make using the FL over the Ferry practicable
- It would cause economic issues to anywhere west of Deer Lake (less traffic using the ferry)
- Route 430/Northern Pen Highway/Viking Trail would require substantial upgrading to cope with the increased traffic. A not small section of the which runs through a National Park.
- Removing the NS-NL Ferry will require a constitutional amendment
1) yes, that would need to happen. Isn't it slowly happening anyways?

2) That could be the case, but with a fixed link, maybe some other things will move in because they now have a road connection to the mainland.

3) Maybe 430/1 should be divided the whole route, along with QC 138. Sounds like a great economic windfall for the area.

4) Did the PEI one cause that?
     
     
  #10044  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I think there is the potential to stimulate a lot of economic activity in the Sunshine Coast by building a bridge across Howe Sound (via Bowen Island to Gibsons), then up the coast beyond Powell River and hopscotch across to Vancouver Island at Campbell River via Cortes, Read and Quadra Islands.

No single bridge would be too long to build, and it would open up a lot of land for development down the road.

True nation building at it's best!
Now take that idea and apply it to the NL bridge.
     
     
  #10045  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ConundrumNL View Post
- Removing the NS-NL Ferry will require a constitutional amendment
Who said anything about getting rid of the ferry to Nova Scotia?
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  #10046  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Who said anything about getting rid of the ferry to Nova Scotia?
There is still a ferry for PEI and NS.
     
     
  #10047  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 5:57 PM
ConundrumNL ConundrumNL is offline
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Who said anything about getting rid of the ferry to Nova Scotia?
I just get the feeling that's what would happen, like the Feds would want it to secure funding.

It probably would be the end of the Federally ran service, replaced with something private, like what happened after the Confederation Bridge opened.

Did PEI have a constitutional mandated service?
     
     
  #10048  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
1) yes, that would need to happen. Isn't it slowly happening anyways?

2) That could be the case, but with a fixed link, maybe some other things will move in because they now have a road connection to the mainland.

3) Maybe 430/1 should be divided the whole route, along with QC 138. Sounds like a great economic windfall for the area.

4) Did the PEI one cause that?
1) They may have done some sections, but I don't think there been indication of a plan to complete it.

2) It would likely mean windfalls for Deer Lake and anything directly on the Northern Pen. Places like Port aux Basque would be heavily affected with the reduced ferry traffic, and probably Corner Brook to some extent.

3) Yes.

4) Did PEI have a clause in their terms of union with Canada for a service? NL does, now I guess it could be replaced by a private service.
     
     
  #10049  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 6:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConundrumNL View Post
I just get the feeling that's what would happen, like the Feds would want it to secure funding.

It probably would be the end of the Federally ran service, replaced with something private, like what happened after the Confederation Bridge opened.

Did PEI have a constitutional mandated service?
The PEI ferry service was constitutionally mandated, and was run by Marine Atlantic. After the bridge was opened, the service was handed over to a private company (Northumberland Ferries). Although no longer constitutionally mandated, the service continues to be federally subsidized.

NFL also runs Bay Ferries, which is responsible for the services from Digby to Saint John and Yarmouth to Bar Harbor ME. I could see them taking over the Newfoundland runs too in such a situation. The ties that bind between the Maritimes and Newfoundland are too strong to abandon the present ferry services. Then there is the convenience of the service to the Maritimes and the US east coast. The Newfoundland ferries aren't going anywhere, no matter what.
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  #10050  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
The PEI ferry service was constitutionally mandated, and was run by Marine Atlantic. After the bridge was opened, the service was handed over to a private company (Northumberland Ferries). Although no longer constitutionally mandated, the service continues to be federally subsidized.

NFL also runs Bay Ferries, which is responsible for the services from Digby to Saint John and Yarmouth to Bar Harbor ME. I could see them taking over the Newfoundland runs too in such a situation.
I thought it was the Borden-Cape Tormentine (NB) service that was federally-mandate.

Wood Islands-Caribou (NS) never was.

After the Confederation Bridge opened, the Borden ferry was eliminated but Wood Islands has been maintained. Nothing really changed in its status.
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  #10051  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 6:35 PM
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Hasn't NFLD learnt it's lesson about these mega-projects? Most of NFLD die financial situation is due to such stupid projects and they have created a noose around the province's financial neck.
     
     
  #10052  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I thought it was the Borden-Cape Tormentine (NB) service that was federally-mandate.

Wood Islands-Caribou (NS) never was.

After the Confederation Bridge opened, the Borden ferry was eliminated but Wood Islands has been maintained. Nothing really changed in its status.
Yes, you are correct. I didn't phrase that clearly enough.
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  #10053  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 6:37 PM
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Here is an MTQ infographic in French about Route 138 and extension plans. From last November.

Everything is at a minimum "under study".

https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr/pro...oute-138-kegaska-vieux-fort-nov-2022.pdf
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  #10054  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 6:46 PM
ConundrumNL ConundrumNL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I thought it was the Borden-Cape Tormentine (NB) service that was federally-mandate.

Wood Islands-Caribou (NS) never was.

After the Confederation Bridge opened, the Borden ferry was eliminated but Wood Islands has been maintained. Nothing really changed in its status.
So how did they handle removing the Borden service? Maybe it wouldn't be as difficult as I thought.
     
     
  #10055  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 6:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ConundrumNL View Post
So how did they handle removing the Borden service? Maybe it wouldn't be as difficult as I thought.
It was easy enough. The bridge runs parallel to the ferry route. They just completed all the infrastructure to connect the bridge at both sides and diverted the traffic to the bridge on opening day. They sailed the ferries away quite literally the next day in a grand "sail pass" under the bridge.

Again, I can not foresee any circumstance where the NS-NL ferry service would be sacrificed. I even think they would maintain both the Port aux Basques and Argentia runs.

In any event, I still think a fixed link across the Strait of Bell Isles is pie in the sky dreaming. I can't imagine it ever happening. They might upgrade the ferry service there if Rte 138 was completed, but that would be it.
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  #10056  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Hasn't NFLD learnt it's lesson about these mega-projects? Most of NFLD die financial situation is due to such stupid projects and they have created a noose around the province's financial neck.
My guess is this would be mainly a federal project. That would mean that Canada would be stuck with it. Mind you, what is wrong with that? We have been stuck with many worse blunders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Here is an MTQ infographic in French about Route 138 and extension plans. From last November.

Everything is at a minimum "under study".

https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr/pro...oute-138-kegaska-vieux-fort-nov-2022.pdf
That is promising. So, if the federal government wanted to dump billions on the fixed link and approaching highways, they have something to go off of.
     
     
  #10057  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ConundrumNL View Post
Lol. Misguided mega projects are a key component of the NL economy.

The FL is something that's brought up every few years as a replacement for for the NS ferry. Nothing comes of it, except maybe a study.

It's a non-starter for several reasons. A few that come to mind:

- Quebec would need to link up the two ends of Route 138 to make using the FL over the Ferry practicable
- It would cause economic issues to anywhere west of Deer Lake (less traffic using the ferry)
- Route 430/Northern Pen Highway/Viking Trail would require substantial upgrading to cope with the increased traffic. A not small section of the which runs through a National Park.
- Removing the NS-NL Ferry will require a constitutional amendment
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConundrumNL View Post
A study performed a few years on a NF to LAB Fixed Link
https://www.gov.nl.ca/publicat/fixedlink/pdf/completereport.pdf
Thank you for the link.

To compare the NL-Labrador link to the Confederation Bridge seems folly, as that was a inter-provincial link in a reasonably densely populated region that was delivered on-budget ($1.3b). As a inter-provincial project and Constitutionally mandated link, the federal government had exclusive domain, and the net effect was enhanced mobility and improved economy of the whole province of PEI.

As the NL/Labrador one would be intra-province, the federal government would likely be less interested in going full out on the cost and likely would require substantial investment by the province. Given that the last major project the province took on nearly caused it to default, the optics of saddling the province with more debt for a project of seriously questionable value would seem poor.

For unity of Canada, another 'gift' on the same scale of Muskrat Falls would be akin to throwing a drowning person a concrete lifejacket.
     
     
  #10058  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Again, I can not foresee any circumstance where the NS-NL ferry service would be sacrificed. I even think they would maintain both the Port aux Basques and Argentia runs.
Indeed, as much of the bulk freight that is transported to Newfoundland ends up at the Avalon peninsula.

When the ferry looks the better option instead of transport by land, it says something about exactly how bad the economics of the fixed link are.
     
     
  #10059  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 3:45 AM
flipper316 flipper316 is online now
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Originally Posted by ryanaye View Post
The new bypass section of Highway 104 (Marshy Hope) between French River and James River is now open in Nova Scotia. This should help with reducing fatalities along this horrible stretch, a number of people in Antigonish and Pictou counties know someone who has passed away from a collision along this highway. The drive through Barney's River Station is no more.

https://novascotia.ca/news/release/?id=20230517003

Hey BC. This is how you build a proper highway. They seem to have forgotten how to build one after the Coq.
     
     
  #10060  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 3:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Here is an MTQ infographic in French about Route 138 and extension plans. From last November.

Everything is at a minimum "under study".

https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr/pro...oute-138-kegaska-vieux-fort-nov-2022.pdf
So that's where Sherbrooke Street goes to...
     
     
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