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  #981  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 9:25 PM
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Why are the Flames so low? Is it because of the stadium situation?
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  #982  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 9:29 PM
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Why are the Flames so low? Is it because of the stadium situation?
I was surprised to see them at about the same value as the Sens.
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  #983  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 9:42 PM
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Key players in the Edmonton Ice District coming to Ottawa to talk about the benefits of a Downtown arena and associated re-development.

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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
A new downtown NHL arena: What Ottawa can learn from Edmonton
Keynote speaker at Ottawa’s Economic Outlook says public subsidies for pro sports can be controversial

By: David Sali
Published: Dec 4, 2017 7:16am EST


Even news that a major condo project near Edmonton’s new NHL rink is being scrapped isn’t enough to dampen the spirits of the arena’s point man at the city.

“Ten years ago, that would have been devastating news, a condo project being cancelled,” Rick Daviss told OBJ on Friday, a day after Lamb Development Corp. confirmed that slow sales had led it to ditch plans to build a 36-storey luxury condo complex just blocks from the Edmonton Oilers’ new home, Rogers Place.

“But now, it’s like, ‘Oh well, there’s another six that are about to go in the ground and another six under construction.’”

Mr. Daviss, the bureaucrat who shepherded the $600-million Rogers Place project through Edmonton city hall, is a believer in the power of developments such as major sports arenas to breathe new life into a local economy.

“This set the city on fire,” he said of the massive building project that opened in the fall of 2016 and also includes a community rink attached to the main arena and a connection to Edmonton’s light-rail transit system.

“It’s a showpiece. For anybody who comes to town, that’s what you go and look at. It’s a true source of pride for many Edmontonians.”

But more than pride, Mr. Daviss said, the new arena has spurred economic growth in the city’s downtown core.

A spate of new condos and commercial office developments near the arena has Edmonton city hall projecting the building boom will generate up to a billion dollars in new property tax revenue over the next two decades.

That’s more than enough, Mr. Daviss said, to offset the drop in value of Class-B and C buildings nearby after tenants fled to developments near the Oilers’ new ice palace.

“All of the naysayers who were saying it’s a white elephant … everybody wants to have a piece of Rogers Place,” he said.

With Ottawa in the midst of its own conversation about the merits of a downtown arena, Mr. Daviss will be at the Shaw Centre on Thursday morning to share his insights and a few lessons learned when it comes to rink-building. He’ll be joined by Bob Black, Oilers owner Darryl Katz’s top man on the arena file, for a keynote address at Ottawa’s Economic Outlook, an annual event sponsored by OBJ and the Ottawa Chamber of Commerce.

Dubbed “Edmonton’s Odd Couple” by a newspaper columnist in the Alberta capital, Mr. Daviss and Mr. Black worked together on one of the largest public-private partnerships in Canadian real-estate history.

Edmonton taxpayers are footing the bill for roughly half of the arena project’s cost. Much of that is coming from a so-called community revitalization levy, which will see a portion of downtown property taxes funnelled to the project.

The team is paying about a quarter of the cost, with the rest funded through ticket surcharges. The city owns the arena and is leasing it back to the Oilers and Mr. Katz.

Mr. Daviss conceded it wasn’t easy to sell taxpayers on the merits of funding such a hefty chunk of the Oilers’ new home.

“(Edmontonians) love their hockey and they would love to have a new arena, but they didn’t want their hard-earned dollars going to the billionaire owner and the millionaire hockey players,” he said.

“What we had to convince the general public and the paying public was that this is not giving money to a billionaire. This is investing into a product that is going to generate revenues which are going to keep your taxes lower and bring new infrastructure and vitality to the city. There was a lot of skepticism. It was a long haul, but people finally embraced that.”

Mr. Daviss admitted he’s not well-versed on Ottawa’s situation, and stressed that a new arena is not a sure-fire cure-all for every city’s economic woes. He points to Edmonton’s biggest provincial rival a couple of hours south, noting the current economic climate in Calgary – where the Flames are pushing for a new arena of their own – is much different than it was in Edmonton when the Rogers Place plan was hatched.

“They’ve got a whole bunch of new development that’s sitting vacant right now,” he said of southern Alberta city, which has been hit hard by the downturn in the oil and gas sector.

“It’s much riskier in Calgary right now than it was in Edmonton when we had our kick at the cat. Going in with your eyes open is the advice I would give. If you think this is going to add vibrancy and vitality and has development potential, I would say jump at it.”

Mr. Black and Mr. Daviss were invited to speak at Thursday’s event by local entrepreneur Doug McLarty, a partner in MNP’s Ottawa office and chair of the Ottawa Chamber of Commerce’s new city-building task force.

Calling a redeveloped LeBreton Flats with an NHL arena “a transformative opportunity for the city,” Mr. McLarty said he wants to kickstart a conversation about the project and its merits.

“It’s all about education,” he said. “It’s about showing the positive impact that something of this nature can have on a city. The financial success (of Rogers Place) is beyond what anybody’s expectations were.”

He said he thinks a few critics of the Rendezvous LeBreton plan might change their minds after learning about Edmonton’s experience.

“I know there are a lot of naysayers,” he said. “I want people in the city to have an opportunity to hear both sides of the (argument). We want to get a dialogue going.”

While Edmonton city taxpayers ultimately funded a significant portion of their new arena, whether that will happen in Ottawa is still unclear. Mayor Jim Watson said earlier this year the city hasn’t been asked to help pay for a new downtown home for the Senators, and he refused to speculate on such a proposal.

Mr. McLarty said his two children are young adults who’ve chosen to live in Toronto because they see it as a more vibrant city with better career prospects than their hometown. He wants that perception to change, and believes a revived LeBreton Flats with an NHL arena at its core could be a key part of the solution.

“It’s not just about the arena,” he said. “It’s about all of the other aspects surrounding the arena in LeBreton Flats. It’s a much bigger picture than just the facility itself.”

Mr. Daviss knows as well as anyone how talk of public subsidies for arenas can cause emotions to flare.

“That’s all everybody talked about here for three years,” he said. “By the end of the conversation, I didn’t have anybody that wasn’t a supporter, and half the people were skeptical at the start.”



http://www.obj.ca/article/new-downto...learn-edmonton
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  #984  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 240glt View Post
You know that's just drum beating from the local media who have been tasked with boosting this project, and downtown with hype and fanfare. None of that is realized, and since property values are actually falling in the CRL area (for commercial buildings) I am not so sure the rosy projections hold water

A sucker is born every minute it seems.
please post any credible sources you have for any of that you just typed above ^ Ide like to see them

Quote:
“Ten years ago, that would have been devastating news, a condo project being cancelled,” Rick Daviss told OBJ on Friday, a day after Lamb Development Corp. confirmed that slow sales had led it to ditch plans to build a 36-storey luxury condo complex just blocks from the Edmonton Oilers’ new home, Rogers Place.

“But now, it’s like, ‘Oh well, there’s another six that are about to go in the ground and another six under construction.’”
That statement right there says a lot
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Last edited by Oilkountry; Dec 5, 2017 at 11:11 PM.
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  #985  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
Why are the Flames so low? Is it because of the stadium situation?
I'm confused by that as well. Their value dropped $5 mil from last year's valuation for whatever reason. Oilers went up by $65 mil and the Sens by $50 mil. I'm guessing the playoff runs have something to do with that?
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  #986  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
I'm confused by that as well. Their value dropped $5 mil from last year's valuation for whatever reason. Oilers went up by $65 mil and the Sens by $50 mil. I'm guessing the playoff runs have something to do with that?
I'm guessing Forbes is taking into consideration things like lease agreements, merchandising, and overall market impact. A playoff run would presumably increase franchise valuation as that's x number of additional home games in a season, thereby raising the financials of the arena and team.
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  #987  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
I'm guessing Forbes is taking into consideration things like lease agreements, merchandising, and overall market impact. A playoff run would presumably increase franchise valuation as that's x number of additional home games in a season, thereby raising the financials of the arena and team.
Aren't those are some pretty big jumps in value for just a few extra home games though? Calgary also had 2 extra home games in the playoffs yet their value still diminished.
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  #988  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 12:51 AM
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Aren't those are some pretty big jumps in value for just a few extra home games though? Calgary also had 2 extra home games in the playoffs yet their value still diminished.
Calgary's arena uncertainty no doubt plays a role in their declining valuation.

Every other valuation increase can be drawn down to Vegas entering the league at $500M. The last expansion teams entered at merely $80M.
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  #989  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 5:18 AM
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Canadian Tire Centre

A question for the people in Ottawa - Has the Canadian Tire Centre always been this bad? My question is not meant to troll, I am just trying to understand if I had a "normal" experience.

Like many others in town for the Grey Cup, we decided to check out the Islanders/Senators game on the Saturday. Despite the increased interest I still found resale tickets for $25 below cost near the tunnel where the Senators exit the bench.

Things did not start well with the first OC Transpo shuttle showing up almost 10 minutes late to the stop on Rideau. Then the driver refused to believe that Grey Cup ticketholders could ride for free, despite an ad saying just that, right outside the bus. He eventually gave in when his dispatcher told him what the promotion was. Near the end of the long ride to Kanata he cheerfully warned everyone that shuttles would only wait until 20 minutes after the game ended. After much delay, arrived at the CTC and trudged through crazily parked buses in the dark.

Finally arrived at the main gate and despite there being dozens of doors open, there were thousands of people in line waiting to go through security. Couldn't figure out why there was such a wait until about 10 of us were waved over to a door to an interior sports bar. It took about 10 minutes for the 10 people to go through. My wife was one of the offenders in that she brought a small purse. The security person made her dump out the entire contents, pocket by pocket. Every item was prodded and scrutinized. Small cellophane pack of Kleenex? Open it! Chapstick? Take the cap off! Airports are less secure.

Eventually walked through a huge sports bar to find a tiny, claustrophobic concourse. One of the few beer locations had a line of five guys in front of it. That five person line actually hit the far side of the councourse it was so narrow. Noting that large restuarants and bars filled in the space between the tiny concourse and the outer wall most of the way around the arena we wondered if they had been dropped in at some point.

Tried to walk all the way around but found the way blocked by a private Bell area.

Eventually got to our area and were pleasantly surprised to find there was no line-up for pizza. Then took a few bites. One slice was rock hard and another had rancid bacon.

Eventually got to our seats in section 105, Row H. Initially thought that we were in a baseball stadium as the rows were raked so low I had memories of the 100 level of Skydome/Rogers Centre. It was difficult seeing over people.

The game was "meh", with the Islanders winning. After a bathroom break frantically ran for one of the last shuttles and the long ride back downtown.

Is this experience typical? If so, I can see why there are attendance issues. We found it night and day compared to a 67's game we went to on a previous trip.
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  #990  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 2:58 PM
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It's pretty much end of the line for Edmonton's coliseum today, with an expected vote to demolish the building coming

Here's one expert's take

Demolishing the Coliseum no easy task but should have been anticipated, prof says


Uncertainty about the future of the Coliseum could have been avoided if the main players in Edmonton's new arena development had considered the realistic cost of demolishing the Oilers' former home.

"It certainly should have been discussed as part of the (Rogers Place) build," said Moshe Lander, a Concordia university professor who specializes in the economics of sports.

"Maybe there could have been a negotiation with the Oilers ownership ... that we'll give you $250 million, but we're going to claw back $20 million as part of your contribution to the decommissioning cost.

"If that wasn't done, that was — take your pick — oversight or negligence."

....

But city council hasn't yet agreed to tear down the Coliseum, which will be shuttered on Jan. 1. Some councillors have expressed hope the building will be saved and re-purposed.

Mayor Don Iveson, however, is not convinced there are practical suggestions for how to re-imagine the arena's future. He noted the once-promising idea of converting the hockey arena into amateur sports space would cost more than building four new rinks from scratch.

"Vacant sites and boarded up buildings are not in the community's interests," Iveson said on Tuesday. "We'll take actions to remove buildings from the (Northlands) site, to prepare them for redevelopment, unless there's a compelling case for a re-purpose."


....

Tim Reid, president of Northlands, said he hopes the organization will continue to use parts of the Northlands site for decades to come.

"Look at the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) in Toronto. They continue to deliver their events at the CNE, 30 years after SkyDome (opened). It's still an exhibition site, it's still a programming site."

He noted the CNE has developed thousands of residential units on its land over the last several years.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/e...lers-1.4434650
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  #991  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavefromSt.Vital View Post
A question for the people in Ottawa - Has the Canadian Tire Centre always been this bad? My question is not meant to troll, I am just trying to understand if I had a "normal" experience.

Like many others in town for the Grey Cup, we decided to check out the Islanders/Senators game on the Saturday. Despite the increased interest I still found resale tickets for $25 below cost near the tunnel where the Senators exit the bench.

Things did not start well with the first OC Transpo shuttle showing up almost 10 minutes late to the stop on Rideau. Then the driver refused to believe that Grey Cup ticketholders could ride for free, despite an ad saying just that, right outside the bus. He eventually gave in when his dispatcher told him what the promotion was. Near the end of the long ride to Kanata he cheerfully warned everyone that shuttles would only wait until 20 minutes after the game ended. After much delay, arrived at the CTC and trudged through crazily parked buses in the dark.

Finally arrived at the main gate and despite there being dozens of doors open, there were thousands of people in line waiting to go through security. Couldn't figure out why there was such a wait until about 10 of us were waved over to a door to an interior sports bar. It took about 10 minutes for the 10 people to go through. My wife was one of the offenders in that she brought a small purse. The security person made her dump out the entire contents, pocket by pocket. Every item was prodded and scrutinized. Small cellophane pack of Kleenex? Open it! Chapstick? Take the cap off! Airports are less secure.

Eventually walked through a huge sports bar to find a tiny, claustrophobic concourse. One of the few beer locations had a line of five guys in front of it. That five person line actually hit the far side of the councourse it was so narrow. Noting that large restuarants and bars filled in the space between the tiny concourse and the outer wall most of the way around the arena we wondered if they had been dropped in at some point.

Tried to walk all the way around but found the way blocked by a private Bell area.

Eventually got to our area and were pleasantly surprised to find there was no line-up for pizza. Then took a few bites. One slice was rock hard and another had rancid bacon.

Eventually got to our seats in section 105, Row H. Initially thought that we were in a baseball stadium as the rows were raked so low I had memories of the 100 level of Skydome/Rogers Centre. It was difficult seeing over people.

The game was "meh", with the Islanders winning. After a bathroom break frantically ran for one of the last shuttles and the long ride back downtown.

Is this experience typical? If so, I can see why there are attendance issues. We found it night and day compared to a 67's game we went to on a previous trip.
I don"t go that often but I have gone once this season. The experience isn't normally that dismal but it is true that it's not optimal either.

One thing is that having an exciting game to watch greatly dulls the effect of the stuff that is not so fun.

Here is my experience:

We drove from the Quebec side of the river. Lots of traffic as usual and even if we thought we gave ourselves plenty of time it was still close - we got to our spots just before the national anthem.

Oncce there it wasn't so much the parking but rather the huge slow line-ups getting into the arena. It's always been like that though - I have no idea why. The night we were there it was mild but it mustn't be fun when it's windy and -25C and it takes 20 minutes to get in the door.

We were all guys so no security screening issues with purses.

Everything you buy there is super-expensive. This is par for the course for pro sports these days but prices at CTC seem to be even a notch above.

Lineups are usually long for concessions and bathrooms. Concourses are very crowded. None of this is exceptional for pro sports venues but as mentioned, it doesn't make it an optimal experience.

I've never had an issue with the seating configuration of the arena though. Seems pretty good to me.

Getting out of the building after the game on foot was no issue but as usual it took about a half-hour to get out of the parking lot even though the exit was about 150 m from where we parked.
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  #992  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 4:26 PM
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^ The excruciatingly long security scan lineups are the latest reason to stay home instead of going to the game.

For whatever reason home games start at 7:00 in Winnipeg these days... good luck to anyone like me who has to pick up kids, get them home and then get back downtown in time for the start. It would have been a dicey proposition before, but now add in a 15-20 minute wait to just clear the frigging doors and metal detectors and honestly... why even bother anymore. Add in the interminable ride to Kanata that Sens fans have to put up with and it's a wonder they're even getting 10,000 out to their games.
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  #993  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 4:51 PM
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^ I never find the MTS Centre to be much of a hassle to get in. Just leave your purse at home esquire!

I do live within a reasonable walk or quick bus ride to the arena, so I guess I am a bit lucky in that respect. But for Bombers games - they require a early departure from work if I want to get there on a weekday. After the Bombers moved to IGF, I went from going to a handful of games a year - to one.
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  #994  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 5:11 PM
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^ I never find the MTS Centre to be much of a hassle to get in. Just leave your purse at home esquire!

I do live within a reasonable walk or quick bus ride to the arena, so I guess I am a bit lucky in that respect. But for Bombers games - they require a early departure from work if I want to get there on a weekday. After the Bombers moved to IGF, I went from going to a handful of games a year - to one.
Leave me alone, I need to freshen up my makeup

I don't know what happened but this year the security lineups seem worse than ever. It's just brutal. It doesn't help that MTS Centre wasn't really designed for that sort of thing. The NW entrance of the skywalk is the one I generally use as I park at Portage Place, and it's extremely narrow with only a couple of scanners open. It backs up like crazy.

By contrast, I don't find IGF to be that bad... the gates are wide and they move people through pretty quickly, although the trend seems to be that every facility is gradually getting worse with security lineups as compared to better in that regard so I'm sure within the next couple of years even IGF fans will be treated to scanners and patdowns.

And surely a 7:30 kickoff should be plenty of time to leave work at a normal hour and go Downtown > Wolseley > Fort Garry, no?!
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  #995  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 6:02 PM
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I find it funny that people are arguing about what a great idea it is to move an arena downtown when ten years ago it was all the rage to claim that downtown arenas really aren't that great. Odd how opinions change depending on the wind.
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  #996  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 6:08 PM
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I find it funny that people are arguing about what a great idea it is to move an arena downtown when ten years ago it was all the rage to claim that downtown arenas really aren't that great. Odd how opinions change depending on the wind.
I think you'd probably have to go back to the 80s to find the last time that suburban arenas were truly in style. Even by the time CTC was built, suburban rinks were already kind of passé.

That's basically 30 years ago... most would consider that a fairly long time.
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  #997  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Leave me alone, I need to freshen up my makeup

I don't know what happened but this year the security lineups seem worse than ever. It's just brutal. It doesn't help that MTS Centre wasn't really designed for that sort of thing. The NW entrance of the skywalk is the one I generally use as I park at Portage Place, and it's extremely narrow with only a couple of scanners open. It backs up like crazy.

By contrast, I don't find IGF to be that bad... the gates are wide and they move people through pretty quickly, although the trend seems to be that every facility is gradually getting worse with security lineups as compared to better in that regard so I'm sure within the next couple of years even IGF fans will be treated to scanners and patdowns.

And surely a 7:30 kickoff should be plenty of time to leave work at a normal hour and go Downtown > Wolseley > Fort Garry, no?!
I will add that I find Lansdowne easier to get to and into before a game than the CTC. In spite of the fact that the crowds are bigger, and that it's tightly packed into an inner city neighbourhood with zero on-site parking. Of course, Lansdowne has multiple entrances to the stadium where CTC only has one big one for some reason. Bell in Montreal is also easier to get to and into than CTC in my experience, and again it's in a tightly boxed-in urban location with 4-5,000 more people than a typical Senators game.
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  #998  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 8:10 PM
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Rogers Place achieves LEED Silver.


www.twitter.com/dbayeg
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  #999  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 8:18 PM
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Weird, I've never noticed any issues getting into Rogers Arena, even with heightened security lately. You get a half-assed pat-down, walk through the metal detectors and you're in. I've never stood in line longer than 10 minutes. For sports that is. Concerts can take 20-30 minutes, but I guess they expect people to be crazier or whatever.

As far as 7:00 pm games, isn't that the standard home game time? When should they be?
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  #1000  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 8:28 PM
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As far as 7:00 pm games, isn't that the standard home game time? When should they be?
For the longest time hockey games started at 7:30, but for at least the last few years it has been 7:00 which is a bit tighter but still doable. However, the security process takes a lot more time now... you have to leave even earlier to make it to your seat on time.
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