Ottawa Senators LeBreton Arena | 11 Acres | In Planning

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Anyone know which direction the additional ~3 acres stretches from the original parcel? To the east or to the west (or both)?

That's an excellent question! I would like to see an updated site plan; I'm sure it will be made public soon enough.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Look at what people do in Montreal to get to the University stadium for football games or in Toronto to get to the AC. Very few are parking on site!

I can't speak about Montreal, but in Toronto, the arena is connected indoors to a massive transit hub with trains from Via Rail, Toronto subway, Go Trains and my personal favourite, the Union Pearson Express, never mind countless city buses outside. And not nearly as cold and blustery as Ottawa can be. I mean, Ottawa is getting there with the LRT but it's not even a remotely fair comparison. I hate not taking my car places and even I go park it somewhere and take the train into downtown TO, because it's just so easy.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Don't get me wrong, I'm terrified that Sutcliffe will somehow screw this up, but, knowing the Sens have no intention of asking for an actual monetary contribution and seeing Andlauer's enthusiasm, I'm feeling good about this one.

Well if they aren't asking for money unless they are BSing and what they want is some kind of huge exemption in DCs and property tax for a bunch of towers they are building on the site I don't see how he could screw it up. Even if they want that frankly they should get it considering how much we are proposing to give a junior hockey team.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I can't speak about Montreal, but in Toronto, the arena is connected indoors to a massive transit hub with trains from Via Rail, Toronto subway, Go Trains and my personal favourite, the Union Pearson Express, never mind countless city buses outside. And not nearly as cold and blustery as Ottawa can be. I mean, Ottawa is getting there with the LRT but it's not even a remotely fair comparison. I hate not taking my car places and even I go park it somewhere and take the train into downtown TO, because it's just so easy.

Molson Stadium has basically none of that infrastructure, so it is an example of the other extreme working fine. The nearest metro is about a kilometre away and down a big hill.

[rocketphish]

Arena at LeBreton Flats a ‘major’ opportunity for Gatineau, official says
Sens owner Andlauer admits he was unsure if a deal could be done

Mia Jensen, OBJ
September 23, 2024 3:37 PM ET

The head of the Gatineau Chamber of Commerce said the new deal between the Ottawa Senators and the National Capital Commission that could see an arena built at LeBreton Flats could present major opportunities for the city. “This is a major economic and tourism opportunity for Gatineau,” said CEO Etienne Fredette in an email to OBJ. “This project will increase traffic to our businesses, restaurants and hotels, while strengthening ties between both sides of the river. We are confident that this investment will benefit our business community.” On Saturday, Senators owner Michael Andlauer celebrated his one-year anniversary with the organization, saying that he’s thrilled to mark the occasion with a deal that could pave the way to building a new arena in downtown Ottawa.

On Friday, it was announced that the hockey club had reached an agreement in principle to purchase 10 acres of land from the NCC at LeBreton Flats.

It wasn’t an easy process, according to Andlauer, who spoke to the media in Gatineau, where the team hosted an open practice and intrasquad game ahead of the start of the season.

“Obviously, it took a whole year to do it,” he said. “The potential was there. I’ve heard it everywhere, even here in Gatineau, of the desire to have an arena downtown.” The original plan was for the Senators to lease six or seven acres of land from the NCC for the project, but Andlauer said the Crown corporation’s aspirations were too high for what the team needed.

“The originally agreed deal really didn’t work, as far as I was concerned, whether it be access to parking or the size of the land, in order to have activation,” he said. “And also in terms of the rest of the property. It’s been empty for six-plus years. I didn’t want us to have an arena and still have the rest stay empty.” In fact, Andlauer said he had been concerned that a deal wouldn’t be reached at all. During the initial meeting, Andlauer said the NCC wanted a potential arena to have no parking and to meet zero-carbon standards.

“I think the NCC sometimes can be a bit too ideological in their approach,” he said. “They mean well, but I’m trying to think through the lens of the fans, and it wouldn’t make sense.” The new deal will see the Senators purchase the land at what the NCC called “fair market value.” The extra space will afford the team more flexibility and allow for other developments in the surrounding area, like hotels and housing.

Andlauer said, “In the NCC’s defence, they recognized that it wasn’t supposed to be a financial play of any sort. I’m here to take care of the Senators and be part of this community. I’m not in the development business, but I know what our fans want. It was to create an understanding and I think the NCC got it.” While Andlauer said he’s excited to see what an arena can do to activate Ottawa’s downtown core, he added that there’s also potential to further the relationship between the Senators organization and the city of Gatineau, including its fans and its economy.

“Shame on me for not realizing how connected Gatineau and Ottawa are,” he said. “It took me 15 minutes to get here. I couldn’t believe, as I came in here and talked to the fans on the concourse, how excited they are. They’re excited about LeBreton Flats and how close it is.”

https://obj.ca/arena-lebreton-flats-...neau-official/

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by hwy418

That's an excellent question! I would like to see an updated site plan; I'm sure it will be made public soon enough.

I'm guessing two blocks east to make the math work, but no confirmation yet. I was hoping we'd get the map last Friday, but I expect we'll get it October 1 at the Board meeting.

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I can't speak about Montreal, but in Toronto, the arena is connected indoors to a massive transit hub with trains from Via Rail, Toronto subway, Go Trains and my personal favourite, the Union Pearson Express, never mind countless city buses outside. And not nearly as cold and blustery as Ottawa can be. I mean, Ottawa is getting there with the LRT but it's not even a remotely fair comparison. I hate not taking my car places and even I go park it somewhere and take the train into downtown TO, because it's just so easy.

I was hoping for a corridor connecting the two stations and arena, but I don't see that happening if the Sens don't get the entire Albert frontage.

There are places with similar or colder climates in similar situations such as Winnipeg (no rapid transit), Edmonton (low capacity transit at the door and higher capacity station 800 meters away) and I'm sure many American cities, though they have a higher driving modal share.

[wingman]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

[B][SIZE="4"]“Shame on me for not realizing how connected Gatineau and Ottawa are,” he said. “It took me 15 minutes to get here. I couldn’t believe, as I came in here and talked to the fans on the concourse, how excited they are. They’re excited about LeBreton Flats and how close it is.”

https://obj.ca/arena-lebreton-flats-...neau-official/

I am not a Sens fan, live in Gatineau and I am excited for this. This goes way beyond hockey! I know many others "over here" that are also excited about this news. Hopefully it has a positive impact on the old Hull area. The former Crown Plaza hotel location will have a lot more value with this new facility a hop, skip and a jump away. Plus the value of whatever Zibi will be will also be enhanced by this.

I think it's long overdue, but very welcome.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Don't get me wrong, I'm terrified that Sutcliffe will somehow screw this up, but, knowing the Sens have no intention of asking for an actual monetary contribution and seeing Andlauer's enthusiasm, I'm feeling good about this one.

They may not ask for a cheque, but no intention of asking for a monetary contribution may be overly optimistic. In any event, it will need to go through the usual Ottawa grind of committees, community opposition/alternative groups, yaddah yaddah. That could go on for years if this town is true to form.

I hope I'm wrong, but this town does have a track record.

[DTcrawler]

I suspect they're going to ask for a P3 or similar type model. Something that doesn't require a huge sum of tax $ up front but provides support in the long run. Frankly, considering it's inevitable that the City is licking its chops right now to get a piece of this pie from the Sens/NCC, it'd be almost unreasonable to expect the Sens to not ask for anything in return.

[rdaner]

The owners of Zibi must be happy!

[rocketphish]

Ottawa Senators' LeBreton plan is nothing like Lansdowne 2.0
The president of the Ottawa Senators, Cyril Leeder, is right when he says the team shouldn’t expect taxpayers to pay for a new NHL arena.

Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
Published Sep 24, 2024 • 3 minute read

The tentative land purchase agreement between the National Capital Commission and the Ottawa Senators offered a moment of euphoria for the team and those who believe the city needs a new arena on LeBreton Flats. Now comes the big question: who’s going to pay for it?

The Senators have had conflicting communications on that critical point. Earlier this month, team owner Michael Andlauer said he would do his share, but the arena “cannot happen without public support.” Senators president Cyril Leeder took a different tack after the purchase deal was announced, saying that he didn’t expect Ottawa taxpayers to cover the cost of the arena and it’s not typically the approach taken in this country.

That’s not always the case. Edmonton and Calgary are the two most recent cities to build arenas and not only did the taxpayers contribute money, the cities own the arenas. The most recent deal, in Calgary, will cost $926 million. The arena itself will cost $800 million, but the project also includes a community rink, a parking garage and indoor and outdoor event plazas.

Calgary will pay 56 per cent of the cost, the company that owns the Calgary Flames will cover 38 per cent and the remainder will come from the Alberta government. The province’s $55-million arena share is part of a broader $330-million deal for infrastructure improvements related to the project.

Edmonton’s 2016 arena was more modestly priced at $614 million, with city taxpayers covering just over half and most of the Edmonton Oilers’ share coming in the form of rent payments.

There has been some talk of the new rink here being a public-private partnership, but the timing couldn’t be much worse. The city is facing what Mayor Mark Sutcliffe calls a $120-million structural deficit and the mayor is pressuring the federal and provincial governments for more money. Support for a new arena won’t make the list.

The city already has its hands full managing the replacement of the north-side stands at TD Place and the construction of a new arena that will serve women’s professional and junior hockey teams and provide a venue for other entertainment.

Even though this is a case of the city replacing aged assets it already owns, Lansdowne 2.0 has been controversial. Opponents of the project believe its $419-million cost could be better spent on just about anything. Some also argue that there’s really nothing wrong with the buildings and they could be fixed up for a modest cost. It’s even claimed that there could be a tax increase or a special tax to pay for it all.

The facts tell a different story. An engineering study in 2019 found multiple deficiencies in the north-side stands and the Civic Centre arena. It concluded “the existing north stands and the arena at TD Place currently function at levels well below contemporary standards and will continue to decline in performance.”

The city has determined that required repairs for the building over the next 50 years will cost $625 million. By contrast, the city estimates building new stands and a new arena would cost $419 million. Doing nothing would cost an estimated $12.5 million a year. Debt servicing for the new stadium and parking would be $6.9 million a year. That’s hardly a substantial burden for the city, which has a $4.5-billion operating budget.

The city spending at Lansdowne is long overdue. The Senators think their arena requires replacement. It was built in 1994. The Lansdowne buildings date back to 1967. We should be pleased that the cost of Lansdowne is significantly smaller than what Calgary and Edmonton spent to replace their municipal sports buildings.

Ottawa got lucky when the original owners of the Senators built an NHL arena without public money. It will be a huge challenge for Andlauer and his partners to replicate that feat at today’s costs, but Leeder is right when he says the team shouldn’t expect taxpayers to foot the bill. There is neither the money nor the political will to make that happen.

Randall Denley is an Ottawa journalist and author. Contact him at [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/de...-lansdowne-2-0

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

They may not ask for a cheque, but no intention of asking for a monetary contribution may be overly optimistic. In any event, it will need to go through the usual Ottawa grind of committees, community opposition/alternative groups, yaddah yaddah. That could go on for years if this town is true to form.

I hope I'm wrong, but this town does have a track record.

Honestly given Andlauer has located downtown and is from Montreal/Toronto it seems he decided that a downtown location was critical and probably calculated getting city money isn't worth the extra years wait and endless discussion. The city could still delay him but if he doesn't ask them for money it is possible to work with the NCC to get this built in 5 years. He can probably survive without the waterfall funds. I bet he asks for a property tax break which we should provide and be happy we don't need to pony up actual cash.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by phil235

Molson Stadium has basically none of that infrastructure, so it is an example of the other extreme working fine. The nearest metro is about a kilometre away and down a big hill.

That's true, but it's also a 9 game season compared to 41, and not in the heart of winter. But as said somewhere upthread, people find a way.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Honestly given Andlauer has located downtown and is from Montreal/Toronto it seems he decided that a downtown location was critical and probably calculated getting city money isn't worth the extra years wait and endless discussion. The city could still delay him but if he doesn't ask them for money it is possible to work with the NCC to get this built in 5 years. He can probably survive without the waterfall funds. I bet he asks for a property tax break which we should provide and be happy we don't need to pony up actual cash.

Can he afford to go it alone?

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Can he afford to go it alone?

Doubt it. Even as a billionaire with partners such as fellow billionaire Bill Malhotra and numerous other millionaires, acting like they can casually drop a similar sum to what they paid for the franchise itself (approx. USD $950M) on a new arena seems like a stretch.

I still believe that they will not ask for an outright cash contribution from taxpayers especially now that Leeder is on record saying as much. However, I think they will almost certainly, at least to begin with, ask for a financing structure that involves some give and take between the various parties (i.e. the Sens, the City, Queen's Park and the NCC / feds as a whole). What exactly that looks like remains to be seen. On the other hand, Leeder has said that part of the reason he wished to return to the Sens was to see the arena project through once and for all, and I have a feeling that part of the planning process involved ensuring they had a plan in place to "control their own fate" so to speak, instead of allowing their fortunes to hinge on the political reality du jour.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Can he afford to go it alone?

If the NCC would go back to the Rendez-vous Lebreton concept, yes he could.
If the "Senators" would own the development rights to the entire parcel, then the "build it and they will come" scenario would play out. I think in the Rendez-vous Lebreton proposal, they were looking at $5Billion in condo, retail, restaurant etc... , the Senators could draw a development levy from the developers and ongoing events charge to restaurants in the area and use this to finance the construction & operation of the arena. The development does not have any value without the arena. This was a real win-win

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

If the NCC would go back to the Rendez-vous Lebreton concept, yes he could.
If the "Senators" would own the development rights to the entire parcel, then the "build it and they will come" scenario would play out. I think in the Rendez-vous Lebreton proposal, they were looking at $5Billion in condo, retail, restaurant etc... , the Senators could draw a development levy from the developers and ongoing events charge to restaurants in the area and use this to finance the construction & operation of the arena. The development does not have any value without the arena. This was a real win-win

I am not sure there is a reason to predict that sort of massive demand for condos and commercial projects. That is a big part of the reason RVL fell apart. This is a city where developers build projects one building at a time, usually with multiple years between each new building. This is also a city where demand for commercial office and retail space has been lacklustre for several years.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

That's true, but it's also a 9 game season compared to 41, and not in the heart of winter. But as said somewhere upthread, people find a way.

Molson Stadium is unique in that it is owned by McGill University and primarily used by them.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

If the NCC would go back to the Rendez-vous Lebreton concept, yes he could.
If the "Senators" would own the development rights to the entire parcel, then the "build it and they will come" scenario would play out. I think in the Rendez-vous Lebreton proposal, they were looking at $5Billion in condo, retail, restaurant etc... , the Senators could draw a development levy from the developers and ongoing events charge to restaurants in the area and use this to finance the construction & operation of the arena. The development does not have any value without the arena. This was a real win-win

I think the development has value with our without the Arena. Certainly commerical is more valuable but in the current Ottawa market the most valuable use of this 10 acres is probably housing. I know they say this isn't a real estate play but I assume they will have at least on attached rental tower involved. I guess this only works if the NCC is selling them the land at a rate that reflects institutional use and they are able to capture increased value from housing. Malhotra's involvement suggest that might be part of the plan.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

Molson Stadium is unique in that it is owned by McGill University and primarily used by them.

I know, but McGill events aren't drawing CFL crowds and those that go to USports games are for the most part right in the area already. I don't have the numbers handy but I bet the Als draw in one game what the university team draws in a season.