BC Political Discussion: Election 2024 & 43rd Parliament

[mcj]

Originally Posted by VantageHD

The extreme policies of the far left NDP is ruining this province. I can't believe the ndp is polling so high! Honest question, what is working well under this government? What are people in the lower mainland seeing that others outside that population centre not seeing? This province could be a power house, but the incompetent government officials somehow keep getting the lower mainland vote. I don't understand

Curious what these *extreme* policies are?

As far as I've seen they've been very centrist in their policies, with some like the housing legislation that could be considered traditionally center-right wing due to how free-market oriented it is.

"This province could be a power house", bruh it's not like we were any more of a "powerhouse" in 2017 by any stretch of the definition. And let's face it, it's not like Kamloops knows how to elect competent government officials

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by mcj

Curious what these *extreme* policies are?

As far as I've seen they've been very centrist in their policies, with some like the housing legislation that could be considered traditionally center-right wing due to how free-market oriented it is.

"This province could be a power house", bruh it's not like we were any more of a "powerhouse" in 2017 by any stretch of the definition.

I wouldn't necessarily say the NDP are "very centrist."

The deregulation of SSMU and TOD developments is certainly not a contemporary left wing position, but their changes to the Residential Tenancy Act have been very left wing (for better or for worse.) Whether it's tightening up rent control, increasing taxes and fees on "incorrect" housing usage, or increasing regulations on landlord-tenant relations.

The NDP has been very interested in implementing UNDRIP.

The NDP has worked to block Albertan pipeline expansion in BC.

The NDP has raised taxes on higher incomes while reducing taxes/fees on lower incomes.

The NDP experimented with near complete drug decriminalisation.

They're very certainly a left wing party in general.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I wouldn't necessarily say the NDP are "very centrist."

The deregulation of SSMU and TOD developments is certainly not a contemporary left wing position, but their changes to the Residential Tenancy Act have been very left wing (for better or for worse.) Whether it's tightening up rent control, increasing taxes and fees on "incorrect" housing usage, or increasing regulations on landlord-tenant relations.

The NDP has been very interested in implementing UNDRIP.

The NDP has worked to block Albertan pipeline expansion in BC.

The NDP has raised taxes on higher incomes while reducing taxes/fees on lower incomes.

The NDP experimented with near complete drug decriminalisation.

They're very certainly a left wing party in general.

Those are all centrist, or center-left positions. There's been no seizure of property from landlords.

UNDRIP hasn't been implemented.

TMX, Coastal Gaslink, Eagle Mountain, among other pipelines are all being built, not to mention all the LNG facilities, if they're "blocking" these then they're not really trying that hard.

I'm not aware of any income tax changes? If anything these have been moderate and could easily be described as centerist. It's not like they're seizing assets from the wealthy to redistribute.

They're walking back drug decriminalization as we speak.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by mcj

Those are all centrist, or center-left positions. There's been no seizure of property from landlords.

UNDRIP hasn't been implemented.

TMX, Coastal Gaslink, Eagle Mountain, among other pipelines are all being built, not to mention all the LNG facilities, if they're "blocking" these then they're not really trying that hard.

I'm not aware of any income tax changes? If anything these have been moderate and could easily be described as centerist. It's not like they're seizing assets from the wealthy to redistribute.

They're walking back drug decriminalization as we speak.

Have you been living under a rock these past few years? You don't have to be communist to be left wing.

Rents have been close to frozen for the past 3 years (below inflation rent increases are a rent reduction, really).

UNDRIP is legislated.

Horgan's cabinet fought for three years from 2017-2020 to unconstitutionally block interprovincial trade, which was eventually struck down by the supreme court.

The BC NDP implemented a whole slew of new taxes while removing others meaning the top 1% pays more tax than in 2016, while everyone else pays less. This includes the two new highest provincial tax bracket introduced in 2020 along with the elimination of MSP premiums.

And the drug decriminalization happened. Whether they walk it back or not doesn't change the fact that they experimented with it.

Bear in mind, this is all coming from someone planning on voting orange in October!

[mcj]

Originally Posted by chowhou

You don't have to be communist to be left wing.

Those are all clear center-left/centrist policies though. To describe those are "very left" or "far left" isn't giving much wiggle room for actual far left policies (which would either be communism or closely resemble it).

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by mcj

Those are all clear center-left/centrist policies though. To describe those are "very left" or "far left" isn't giving much wiggle room for actual far left policies (which would either be communism or closely resemble it).

Did I ever call the BCNDP far/very left? I said they're very clearly a left wing party, and those are certainly not centrist policies in my honest and humble opinion.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by chowhou

They're very certainly a left wing party in general.

^

Originally Posted by chowhou

Did I ever call the BCNDP far/very left? I said they're very clearly a left wing party, and those are certainly not centrist policies in my honest and humble opinion.

And the original comment in this chain described them as "far left"

Originally Posted by VantageHD

The extreme policies of the far left NDP is ruining this province. I can't believe the ndp is polling so high! Honest question, what is working well under this government? What are people in the lower mainland seeing that others outside that population centre not seeing? This province could be a power house, but the incompetent government officials somehow keep getting the lower mainland vote. I don't understand

It's just insane to me how far right the overton window seems to have shifted that we're describing this government as "left wing".

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by mcj

It's just insane to me how far right the overton window seems to have shifted that we're describing this government as "left wing".

So you read my comment wrong? "They're very certainly a left wing party in general." Left wing isn't a pejorative. A lot of policies considered "left wing" are good policies.

Seems just as insane to me that you'd describe the traditionally "left wing" party in this province as "very centrist/centre-right." Maybe in the Twitter overton window they are...?

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Have you been living under a rock these past few years? You don't have to be communist to be left wing.

Rents have been close to frozen for the past 3 years (below inflation rent increases are a rent reduction, really).

UNDRIP is legislated.

Horgan's cabinet fought for three years from 2017-2020 to unconstitutionally block interprovincial trade, which was eventually struck down by the supreme court.

The BC NDP implemented a whole slew of new taxes while removing others meaning the top 1% pays more tax than in 2016, while everyone else pays less. This includes the two new highest provincial tax bracket introduced in 2020 along with the elimination of MSP premiums.

And the drug decriminalization happened. Whether they walk it back or not doesn't change the fact that they experimented with it.

Bear in mind, this is all coming from someone planning on voting orange in October!

I think some of this depends on what you see as left/right cause most of those don't strike me as lefty things within the context. Like BC's tax rates are no higher than Ontario's and marginally higher than Quebec so it seems like fairly reasonable taxation to me and not a lefty tax policy.

Drug decriminalisation? Well, that's a left-ish thing to me but not a LEFT thing. Maybe compared to the US but definitely not compared to Europe.

I like Horgan and Eby because they're not your typical left wing folks - they're not like the Federal NDP, they're more like a mix between Federal NDP and Federal Liberals. They are a far cry from the Glen Clark era NDP (Glen notably works for Jim Pattison now so he really wasn't THAT left).

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by ecbin

I think some of this depends on what you see as left/right cause most of those don't strike me as lefty things within the context.

"Reining in" landlords and "using every tool in the tool box" to prevent O&G expansion aren't left wing causes to you? (quotes accurate)

Like BC's tax rates are no higher than Ontario's and marginally higher than Quebec so it seems like fairly reasonable taxation to me and not a lefty tax policy.

Err are you sure about that? BC's top marginal rate is 20.5% at $240,716 while Ontario's is 13.16% at $220,000. Raising taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth a bit more is kind of "the" left thing to do.

Drug decriminalisation? Well, that's a left-ish thing to me but not a LEFT thing. Maybe compared to the US but definitely not compared to Europe.

I feel like this is a very North American viewpoint... There's more to Europe than the Netherlands. The image below is just marijuana. Decriminalization of harder drugs in Europe is most certainly not a mainstream position.

I like Horgan and Eby because they're not your typical left wing folks - they're not like the Federal NDP, they're more like a mix between Federal NDP and Federal Liberals. They are a far cry from the Glen Clark era NDP (Glen notably works for Jim Pattison now so he really wasn't THAT left).

What exactly made the Glen Clark era BCNDP further left than the current BCNDP?

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by chowhou

"Reining in" landlords and "using every tool in the tool box" to prevent O&G expansion aren't left wing causes to you? (quotes accurate)

Again, like I said before, "I think some of this depends on what you see as left/right cause most of those don't strike me as lefty things within the context" - some of this is a matter of perspective.

This particular example though is a left thing (though it doesn't bother me even though I'm a landlord).

Originally Posted by chowhou

Err are you sure about that? BC's top marginal rate is 20.5% at $240,716 while Ontario's is 13.16% at $220,000. Raising taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth a bit more is kind of "the" left thing to do.

In isolation yes - higher taxes is a left thing but it's relative to overall and comparable tax rates. I was getting my data from TaxTips.ca which lists how much income tax you pay at different income levels: https://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/taxc...ent-income.htm

It says at $600k of income a BC resident pays less in taxes than someone in Ontario or Quebec. Your numbers (which I confirmed) would seem to suggest that this site is either out of date or inaccurate though it has so much tax information I've never doubted its accuracy.

Originally Posted by chowhou

I feel like this is a very North American viewpoint... There's more to Europe than the Netherlands. The image below is just marijuana. Decriminalization of harder drugs in Europe is most certainly not a mainstream position.

See I look that image and see a pretty liberal view on drugs - I see the majority of Western Europe with fairly lax takes on drugs. Admittedly when I think Europe I don't think of Eastern Europe and I most definitely don't consider Russia part of Europe (Russia is Asia).

Originally Posted by chowhou

What exactly made the Glen Clark era BCNDP further left than the current BCNDP?

My memories are fuzzy (and I was much more Conservative back then) but I recall a much harder stance around worker's rights and build local (fast ferries) than today's era. I couldn't fathom that era of the NDP liberalising zoning like they have to deal with the housing crisis either - that's a pure free market solution to the problem.

[logicbomb]

Cannot comprehend why anyone would criticize the NDP when they are the lone party in this country actively trying to do things to address the housing crisis and this is coming from someone who liked Gordon Campbell and voted for Harper.

You look at other provinces, particularly in Ontario and these aristocrats are actively working with the federal government to achieve their stupid shortsighted century initiative agenda. Doug Ford and Danielle Smith have abandoned our interests and are fully onboard with stuffing many people into their provinces to prop up housing while creating a crazy surplus of people looking for work.

The Conservative platforms used to involve pragmatic and long-term economic ambitions (Harper).... Now it seems like all the parties are concerned with artificially propping up the GDP by relying on newcomers while also being influenced by foreign interests. Federally, my vote is going more towards the PPC.

[whatnext]

I guess the NDP shouldn't count their chickens, though I still doubt Rustad's ability to put out the fires once his candidates and positions get a closer look during a campaign:

It's no longer looking like an easy election win for the B.C. NDP, says pollster
Vaughn Palmer: A lot will depend on the last month of the campaign as voters learn more about Conservative Leader John Rustad
Author of the article: Vaughn Palmer
Published Aug 08, 2024

VICTORIA — The biggest development in provincial politics this year is the way the B.C. Conservatives have steadily closed ground on the B.C. NDP, a trend documented in a succession of opinion polls from Research Co.

Back in January, the Conservatives were already in second place in a Research poll, but 21 points behind the NDP. By April, the gap was reduced to 18 points, then 10 in May and seven in June.

...Wait for the next poll. But the trend has already transformed this year’s election, according Research president Mario Canseco.

“The illusions of an easy victory by the governing B.C. NDP — assisted by a split of the centre right vote between the rebranded B.C. United and the upstart Conservative Party of B.C. — are effectively gone,” he wrote recently in Business in Vancouver....

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/col...source=twitter

[GenWhy?]

Seat projections I think mostly show a BC-NDP loss of 2-3 seats, or status quo.

While there was a temporary boost to NDP polling numbers due to the BC United re-brand, the NDP seem to be right back where they were in 2023.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Author: Vaughn Palmer, SoCred attack dog. As long as the Cons run on being pro-MAGA social issues, pro-privatization and anti-transit, they're locked out of Vancouver... and if they can't win the metro, they can't win period.

[GMD]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Author: Vaughn Palmer, SoCred attack dog. As long as the Cons run on being pro-MAGA social issues, pro-privatization and anti-transit, they're locked out of Vancouver... and if they can't win the metro, they can't win period.

Tough times for the SoCred media folks like Palmer. By nature, they always attack the NDP, but right now, that means making it more likely for Rustad to win, and the SoCred media folks know (better than anyone) that while the NDP
is their lifelong opponent, the current iteration of the NDP has governed reasonably even if not always to their liking, while the Conservatives under Rustad are loony tunes - so what do they do now?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Author: Vaughn Palmer, SoCred attack dog. As long as the Cons run on being pro-MAGA social issues, pro-privatization and anti-transit, they're locked out of Vancouver... and if they can't win the metro, they can't win period.

They just need to lose some suburban seats. The NDP's disastrous handling on the economy outside of Vancouver and Victoria will cost them the votes everywhere else.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by whatnext

They just need to lose some suburban seats. The NDP's disastrous handling on the economy outside of Vancouver and Victoria will cost them the votes everywhere else.

A brief check shows that most of mainland BC outside Metro Van has voted SoCred / Conservative / Liberal (now United) for many years. The NDP doesn't have many votes to lose there.

It's Metro Van and Van Island that's been heavily voting NDP - and Metro Van has basically half of the population of BC. So whoever appeals to those two areas wins the election. I think you overestimate how much appeal the Conservatives have in Metro Van suburbs.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by whatnext

They just need to lose some suburban seats. The NDP's disastrous handling on the economy outside of Vancouver and Victoria will cost them the votes everywhere else.

I admit I live in a bubble - what are they doing to the provincial economy?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I admit I live in a bubble - what are they doing to the provincial economy?

Forestry-dying
Tree fruit industry: dying
Jade Mining: dead

And the megaprojects that kept employment numbers looking good for the NDP are ended or ending:

MEGABUST: Northern B.C.’s megaproject boom coming to an end
Completion of four megaprojects over the next two years will end thousands of jobs and billions in economic activity.
Arthur Williams
Jan 23, 2023

The completion of four northern B.C. megaprojects, worth a combined $88.6 billion, will mean the end of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in economic activity in the region.

Construction of the Coastal GasLink pipeline from Dawson Creek to Kitimat, the LNG Canada liquified natural gas export terminal in Kitimat, the BC Hydro Site C hydroelectric dam near Fort St. John and the Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion project from Edmonton to Burnaby are all expected to be substantially complete over the next two years.

According to publicly-reported data, those four projects employed an average of 18,632 people in northern B.C. throughout 2022 – a labour force equal to almost seven per cent of the entire working-age population (15 and older) of the province’s three northern economic development regions: Cariboo, Northeast, and North Coast and Nechako.

“That's a lot of jobs,” Northern Development Initiative Trust (NDIT) CEO Joel McKay said. "These major projects have had an absolutely significant impact... not just on northern B.C., but across the province."....

https://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/...an-end-6414417