Sinclair Centre Redevelopment

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Klazu

What you guys are describing is so minute, that it doesn't even qualify as a first world problem...

As opposed to the first world problem of not being able to walk straight to the plaza from the mall? Reconfigure part of the parkade into a staircase or ramp - problem solved.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

That was the link I found the images from. Some government employee working on the project mentioned mass timber for the redevelopment on their Linked in last year I believe. Their footprint is so large I don't think they really care about the floor heights.

If it's around 350 feet and with 30 storeys it's around 12 feet ceilings

That's only the case if they're not using wood-frame though.

Tallwood House has 3m stories, but that's meaning the 'actual' ceiling is pretty low for that project.

It might still be possible to go to 30 stories here, but still.
It's not as great in terms of comfort for the low office story heights inside if they do that.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The newest renderings of the wood frame tower

I appreciate that what has been shared is a very preliminary (unsourced) concept, but it's pretty gnarly in its current form with respect to overbearing massing and fussy tower expression. An extensive green wall feature seems inadvisable for mass-timber building, too, when one considers its voracious appetite for irrigation.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Klazu

The south side has plenty of space for everyone and is never busy.

Are you basing this off Google maps or actual experience?

The south side is never busy because it doesn't have plenty of space. Two people going in opposite directions on that sidewalk cannot pass each other without brushing against the building or streets signs that are in the middle of the sidewalk. I walked down that sidewalk with my wife and a stroller three weeks ago. Every time we encountered a pedestrian headed in the opposite direction, my wife and I had to go single-file and the other pedestrian had to stop and turn sideways to let us by.

Again, I challenge you to try to navigate that area with a stroller or suitcase or wheelchair.

We are getting off-topic so I will bring it back to the actual building. Since everyone here is so passionate about the beautiful Sinclair Centre facades, I don't think it is a hot take that removing an ugly concrete ramp that blocks part of the Federal Building and that makes the main entrance of the buildings for Waterfront commuters a dark and dingy place would make the area more attractive.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

That was the link I found the images from.

From the information available that document was created sometime between October 2022 and January 2023, likely in the later half of that range. The owner’s architect contract was awarded in September so IF these renders are from Adamson Associates’ work on the project they are very preliminary.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by madog222

From the information available that document was created sometime between October 2022 and January 2023, likely in the later half of that range. The owner’s architect contract was awarded in September so IF these renders are from Adamson Associates’ work on the project they are very preliminary.

Maybe someone with more knowledge about the process can chime in but is the schematic design pretty much locking in the functional/exterior design of the structure? Like when they award this to a P3 partner they aren't going to hire some other architect to redesign the overall look of the design?

Schematic design
Finalizing the schematic design supports the development of the contracting documentation and business case updates
Completion in 2024

Project agreement and procurement development
The project agreement is the contract with the private partner that outlines all the project requirements and is therefore the key document in the pre-procurement phase
Complete all of the procurement documents and templates needed during the procurement phase for tenders and bids
Completion expected in 2024

Phase 1: PrePlanning / Master Planning / Schematic Design Services: Years 1+2
Collecting / reviewing existing documentation
Project definition / Program direction
Conceptual Design Options / Technical studies
City of Vancouver early design engagement / support CofV shadow rezoning
Preparation of Government Agency and FHBRO submissions and approvals
Early project public and stakeholder engagement / presentations
Schematic Design (25%) with Class C cost estimate
Phase 2: DBFOM RFP Preparation Services: Year 2+3
Define standard of performance for design, construction and operation
Preparation of Design/Tech specifications for DBFOM procurement
DBFOM or Design,Build, Finance (DBF) - RFP preparation, management, review and award
assistance

Phase 3: Oversight Services: Year 3-10
Oversight of DBFOM design and construction from award to occupancy
Coordination FHBRO submissions / approvals during Proponent design phase
Reviewing the design documents and carrying out PSPC monitoring and oversight
responsibilities during construction and commissioning.
Document control and coordination / Project records / Quality assurance
Phase 4: Functional Programming / Design / Fit up / FFE Services: Year 5-10
Facility Design / Workplace policy design and implementation
Functional Program / User group mtgs / Room Data Sheets
Interior Architecture / Design and Construction Administration
Furniture / fixtures and equipment surveying, design and implementation
Phase 5: Post Occupancy Services: Year 8-11
Managing closeout documents, occupancy of the building and verification of the performance
of building design and systems
Leading facility management / BIM information handover
Occupancy satisfaction survey

[jollyburger]

The Sinclair Centre redevelopment project seems like it's been removed.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230521...r-cen-eng.html

Also some other page on the project said it was a 100,000m2 22 storey project

https://www.globaldata.com/store/rep...file-snapshot/

[trofirhen]

The Sinclair Centre is a rather (IMHO) elegant cluster of heritage buildings. Placing a 22-storey building smack dab on top of it will ruin the classy "heritage" effect. Why can't they leave it alone?

[csbvan]

Hope the weak office demand killed this project. If so, good riddance.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by csbvan

Hope the weak office demand killed this project. If so, good riddance.

Yes! Good riddance!! I just hope you're right about weak office demand killing it.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The Sinclair Centre redevelopment project seems like it's been removed.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230521...r-cen-eng.html

Also some other page on the project said it was a 100,000m2 22 storey project

https://www.globaldata.com/store/rep...file-snapshot/

We know the contract was awarded to Adamson Associates, and the next step would be procurement in 2025. We believe the project will be submitted to the City, but we know the Feds can build whatever they want to, if they choose to do so. Construction of the new replacement Passport Office is well underway now on Granville Street.

William Matthews Studio from London is apparently currently working with Adamson, so the project appears to be alive for now.

The list of firms who were interested in being involved, as part of the initial RFI, is here.

[madog222]

I think that's likely just a sloppy change to the webpage, there is no reason for them to cancel the project and just erase the project page. If they were delaying or cancelling they would announce than on the project page.

Originally Posted by csbvan

Hope the weak office demand killed this project. If so, good riddance.

They aren't exactly building this for tenants.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by madog222

They aren't exactly building this for tenants.

No, they're not. But if they have less workers in their offices each day they can consolidate space and put on the back burner a several hundred million dollar capital investment in additional office space. By weak office demand I am also referring to the reallocation of space within existing federal office space. The feds are not immune to the dynamics happening elsewhere in office culture.

Also, if you're a federal government looking to cut a few billion in costs in their budget (they are - see the new Treasury Secretary's announcement), new office space seems a pretty easy target.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by csbvan

No, they're not. But if they have less workers in their offices each day they can consolidate space and put on the back burner a several hundred million dollar capital investment in additional office space. By weak office demand I am also referring to the reallocation of space within existing federal office space. The feds are not immune to the dynamics happening elsewhere in office culture.

Also, if you're a federal government looking to cut a few billion in costs in their budget (they are - see the new Treasury Secretary's announcement), new office space seems a pretty easy target.

As an investment, it's in a different category than much of the federal spending. They are stuck with the old, seismically challenged buildings (unless they want to give them to the first nations), and most of their existing staff are in rented space scattered around the city.

It wouldn't be surprising if the review of how much space they now think they will need, means the proposed building has been reduced to 22 storeys, and around 100,000 sq m. That would seem to put the scale of the new building at comparable to The Post. If it's still CLT, that would still be an ambitious project.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by csbvan

No, they're not. But if they have less workers in their offices each day they can consolidate space and put on the back burner a several hundred million dollar capital investment in additional office space. By weak office demand I am also referring to the reallocation of space within existing federal office space. The feds are not immune to the dynamics happening elsewhere in office culture.

Also, if you're a federal government looking to cut a few billion in costs in their budget (they are - see the new Treasury Secretary's announcement), new office space seems a pretty easy target.

I wonder if a PP led government would sell this prime piece of real estate.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I wonder if a PP led government would sell this prime piece of real estate.

That was tried by a previous conservative government. The sale (and leaseback) was agreed to Larco, and then first nations claimed it. The sale of buildings in other places happened, but in Vancouver it didn't go ahead. That's why the Feds are trying to make it work as a consolidated federal services office.

[Klazu]

Turn the building into a hotel instead. So much more demand than office and a fantastic location.

[jollyburger]

Luckily they will have to disclose the status of the project in standing committees etc.

For anyone that didn't read it. From Jun 1, 2023

Optimizing Public Services and Procurement Canada’s Real Property Portfolio

Issue/Question:
Public Services and Procurement is the federal government’s administrator of real property and is responsible for approximately 6.9 million square metres (m²) of space across Canada. This includes the office portfolio, special purpose buildings, and assets for the Science and Parliamentary Infrastructure Branch. About 6.2 million square metres (m²) is considered office space.

Suggested Response:
Public Services and Procurement Canada is committed to ensuring sound stewardship of the Government of Canada’s real property portfolio
The post-pandemic environment represents an opportunity to incorporate new workplace arrangements and ensure more efficient use of the office portfolio while also increasing accessibility and reducing greenhouse gas emissions. A detailed review conducted prior to the pandemic found that 40% of our space was underutilized
My department is working with client departments and agencies to help them identify their future office needs as we continue our transition to a hybrid work model with greater use of unassigned office space and interdepartmental shared space
Our plans also include the disposal of surplus and underutilized lands and buildings ensuring that all surplus properties are assessed for suitability for affordable housing
Public Services and Procurement Canada is an active contributor to the Federal Lands Initiative, a program led by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, that converts surplus federal lands and buildings available for development into affordable housing units and communities
If pressed on specific actions:

Public Services and Procurement Canada is working to modernize and green the federal office portfolio over a 10 to 25 year planning horizon, which also includes the disposal of assets that are no longer required
My department’s approach is evolving in line with the new hybrid workplace. Planning assumptions and investment timelines are being updated to reflect current realities, ensure office space is optimized and improve the overall condition and performance of federal buildings
Pre-pandemic, my department had identified underutilization of 40% of our office space. Given the current reality of evolving patterns of work, we are confident in our ability to further reduce our portfolio by up to 50%

https://search.open.canada.ca/qpnote...-2023-QP-00021

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Turn the building into a hotel instead. So much more demand than office and a fantastic location.

Not the cheapest but certainly a rewarding project.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Turn the building into a hotel instead. So much more demand than office and a fantastic location.

As a hotel, would the existing complex of buildings remain more or less as is, necessitating a smaller "boutique" type of hotel, or would you add a tower of some sort. How large? Share your ideas on this, please.