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  #81  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2025, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Then maybe overly inflated land prices will have to give.
How much land do you think developers already own that has yet to see development? I'd estimate 15 years+ of construction at the recent regional rate of 25,000 a year - and that's just identified projects. Many developers no doubt have land acquired that hasn't been made public yet.

Obviously it would be more than 15 years of capacity, if economic circumstances cause development to slow down for a while. The prices they've already paid for land will slow development, if home prices can't cover the cost of development, + profit. Developers don't need to buy anything for many years, if land prices in the near furture seem 'overly inflated'.
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  #82  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2025, 11:07 PM
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How much land do you think developers already own that has yet to see development? I'd estimate 15 years+ of construction at the recent regional rate of 25,000 a year - and that's just identified projects. Many developers no doubt have land acquired that hasn't been made public yet.

Obviously it would be more than 15 years of capacity, if economic circumstances cause development to slow down for a while. The prices they've already paid for land will slow development, if home prices can't cover the cost of development, + profit. Developers don't need to buy anything for many years, if land prices in the near furture seem 'overly inflated'.
Gee, that's too bad. I feel terrible for them. Maybe they shouldn't have bought up all that property when they thought the Mainland China Money Train would last forever.

Time to tighten the tax screws and get rid of landbanking idiocy like "community gardens". Nothing will lower land prices faster than desperation sales.
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  #83  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2025, 11:12 PM
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Gee, that's too bad. I feel terrible for them. Maybe they shouldn't have bought up all that property when they thought the Mainland China Money Train would last forever.

Time to tighten the tax screws and get rid of landbanking idiocy like "community gardens". Nothing will lower land prices faster than desperation sales.
Leave it to whatnext to force Mainland China into any and every conversation no matter what.
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  #84  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2025, 11:21 PM
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Gee, that's too bad. I feel terrible for them. Maybe they shouldn't have bought up all that property when they thought the Mainland China Money Train would last forever.

Time to tighten the tax screws and get rid of landbanking idiocy like "community gardens". Nothing will lower land prices faster than desperation sales.
All those years wasted reading and posting here, and you still seem to have so little understanding of the development market. Mainland China money is only a part of the market, and is even less today. "Community gardens" occupy a fraction of the future development sites.

Meanwhile developers are still buying sites. For example, Sightline just acquired 24 houses near Broadway and Renfrew, for $91.7m, thanks to the new Renfrew & Rupert planning programs.
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  #85  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2025, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Gee, that's too bad. I feel terrible for them. Maybe they shouldn't have bought up all that property when they thought the Mainland China Money Train would last forever.

Time to tighten the tax screws and get rid of landbanking idiocy like "community gardens". Nothing will lower land prices faster than desperation sales.
Punishing companies for not developing their land because it's currently unprofitable to develop their land is...
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  #86  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2025, 4:32 PM
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Leave it to whatnext to force Mainland China into any and every conversation no matter what.
Speaking of Mainland China and Canadian real estate I'm totally not surprised there was no mention of this recently released academic paper on SSP.

Study challenges claims foreign buyer taxes are racist
-Three housing analysts who raised alarms of foreign capital in Vancouver's housing market are now signalling caution against an apparent neoliberal "growth machine" that wants to label such concerns as racist
Graeme Wood
Mar 31, 2025 4:00 PM

Three Vancouver housing experts who have long cautioned policy makers of the perils of foreign capital in residential real estate markets are now warning of revisionist attitudes unfolding within a neoliberal, developer-led “growth machine” that's attempting to capture Canadian discourse on housing affordability.

Study authors Josh Gordon, Andy Yan and David Ley are cracking back at peers who have characterized policies that limit foreign capital in residential real estate — such as the federal foreign buyers’ ban, and provincial speculation and vacancy tax — as xenophobic “housing nationalism.”

In their peer-reviewed paper, Crafting the narrative: wealth migration, growth machines and the politics of housing affordability in Vancouver, Canada, the authors contend there has been an effort to negatively mischaracterize such policies as racist since the mid-2010s, following a massive flight of capital from China to B.C.

In the March 2025 edition of Journal of Ethnic and Migration Studies, the authors contend this misinformation is spun from the “growth coalition” or “growth machine,” which is broadly defined as those individuals and organizations who foster more housing demand resulting in higher house prices. They may include homeowners hoping for more equity, developers whose profits increase with ever-increasing land prices, and the real estate services industry—such as Realtors and mortgage brokers who benefit from higher sales volume...


https://www.biv.com/news/real-estate...acist-10454981
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  #87  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2025, 12:48 AM
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Oops, I guess that's why Bob Rennie and Michael Audain have been pimping for the return of foreign buyers to drive up prices:

Metro Vancouver's unsold condo inventory could soar by 60% in 2025: forecast
Kenneth Chan
Apr 16 2025,

...According to a new forecast released today by local real estate marketing firm Rennie, the number of unsold condominium inventory is projected to jump by 60 per cent in 2025 — from 2,179 units in completed projects to 3,493 units by the end of 2025.

It is anticipated that roughly 1,500 sales will be made for completed or completing homes, based on the current absorption rates, and the number of projects that have already completed construction or will complete this year. Generally, “housing starts” are defined as the beginning of construction work on the building...


https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/metr...st-2025-rennie
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  #88  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2025, 8:29 PM
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I don't believe this was posted elsewhere:

Vancouver swamped by unsold condos as supply outpaces demand

Kerry Gold
Vancouver
Special to The Globe and Mail
Published April 25, 2025
Updated April 26, 2025

In Metro Vancouver, supply has most definitely outpaced demand. The number of newly built, unsold condo units in the Vancouver region is expected to increase by 60 per cent by year’s end.

That will bring the total of new units sitting empty to 3,493 – a 60 per cent increase from the 2,179 homes that sat empty and unsold by the end of 2024. These are multifamily units that have an occupancy permit and are move-in ready.

Ryan Berlin, head economist and vice-president of Rennie Intelligence, part of Rennie Marketing, a Vancouver-based real estate marketing firm that represents some of the country’s largest developers, said 2025 will close with the “highest level of unsold condo inventory” that the region has seen in many years.

It’s a bleak situation for developers, hampered by trade wars, an uncertain interest rate, rising costs and regulations designed to thwart a previous market that was driven by speculation and investment. Those days are over.

“Right now, the market is out of gas. Nothing is working for developers. It’s not really working for buyers. So, we’re just kind of stagnating right now,” said Mr. Berlin.

The story is all about the missing investor – a key player in the housing market. And they’ve run for the exits....

....Developer Tony Hepworth, president of Pennyfarthing Development, said six-storey wood-frame buildings are far more realistic than concrete towers. And the requirement to provide 20 per cent social housing in residential towers isn’t viable for most developers in this market.

“We haven’t seen it yet, and not in Vancouver, but other municipalities have started dropping their requirement for affordable housing, from 20 to 10 per cent.

I think they are going to have to drop it,” he said of Vancouver. “Talking to my colleagues, and some of them are bigger developers than we are, and we are saying that we can’t see how these big towers can go ahead, whether condo or rental at the moment.”...(bold mine)


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...tpaces-demand/
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  #89  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2025, 10:15 PM
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Meanwhile development cost charges are all going up... very nice.
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  #90  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2025, 10:46 PM
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I saw it but I was ignoring it because unless condo sales were being separate from all other types of residential builds it was contrastingly different than the notion there's not enough new housing being built.
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  #91  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2025, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
Meanwhile development cost charges are all going up... very nice.
You're right, they should come down. So should land prices. Time for Rennie, Audain & Co to realize pimping out BC homes to offshore money isn't part of the answer, it is part of the problem.
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  #92  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2025, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
You're right, they should come down. So should land prices. Time for Rennie, Audain & Co to realize pimping out BC homes to offshore money isn't part of the answer, it is part of the problem.
Wait, land prices should go down? That's genius; why has no one thought of this yet?
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  #93  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2025, 11:39 PM
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You're right, they should come down. So should land prices. Time for Rennie, Audain & Co to realize pimping out BC homes to offshore money isn't part of the answer, it is part of the problem.
It's a bit two fold here. Less new condos under the status quo price / buyers, less CACs for cities.

As well as buyer expectations of concrete buildings will have to change. They're just too expensive for everyone.
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  #94  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2025, 11:50 PM
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As well as buyer expectations of concrete buildings will have to change. They're just too expensive for everyone.
This is a classic "No one goes downtown anymore, it's too busy" statement. The price of housing is the market price. It's only the price because that's the price that people are willing to pay.
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  #95  
Old Posted May 5, 2025, 10:13 PM
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This is a classic "No one goes downtown anymore, it's too busy" statement. The price of housing is the market price. It's only the price because that's the price that people are willing to pay.
The problem is when people bring money from out of the country and drive those "market prices" out of reach of locals.
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  #96  
Old Posted May 9, 2025, 7:40 PM
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I guess we now know why he was pushing the idea to start pimping Canadian homes to offshore money again:

Rennie lays off 31 employees from real estate firm, cites ‘changing market’
Vancouver real estate firm says industry shifts structural, not temporary
Jami Makan
about 3 hours ago

A prominent Vancouver real estate company is laying off 31 employees, citing geopolitics, artificial intelligence and other industry upheavals.

Greg Zayadi, president of Rennie & Associates Realty Ltd., said the size of the company’s home office team is being reduced by 25 per cent from 123 to 92 people. The company has a total staff of over 400, according to its website.

Zayadi said in a May 8 post on LinkedIn that it “was a necessary step in response to a changing market, but that doesn’t make it any less painful. The individuals leaving us are thoughtful, talented contributors who have helped shape our culture and our business.”

He cited a “geopolitical, economic, urban affordability and AI-driven hypercycle" and said the firm is responding by becoming “leaner and more focused, and embracing AI and the tools that help us serve better.”....

....The Rennie team was "heavily involved in pre-construction selling ... and also marketing the pre-construction industry," he said. "The biggest reason is the pre-construction industry has suffered."


https://www.biv.com/news/real-estate...arket-10638262
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  #97  
Old Posted May 13, 2025, 10:50 PM
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In a first amid what real estate experts say is a Vancouver-area condo market meltdown, a long-established development company has terminated its presales efforts for a major project and returned purchasers’ deposits.

Karen West, vice-president for marketing and sales with Boffo Developments Ltd., said the company launched the first of what is meant to be a four-tower, 1,200-unit development last July in the hopes that the market was starting to improve as interest rates were slowly coming down.

Only 44 units of the 318 in the first tower sold between July and December and then sales just dropped off completely in the new year, so the company reluctantly decided to pause the project, return deposits with interest, and wait for better conditions, said Ms. West.

Normally, Boffo, in business for more than 50 years, would see about 90 sales in the first three months of marketing, she said.

“We knew we were taking a risk when we decided to proceed last summer. We build for the end user; we don’t rely on investors. It’s always worked well, but I don’t think we could have anticipated the market being as difficult as it has been,” Ms. West said.

Industry experts say this kind of presales withdrawal in this challenging cycle is a significant red flag, as the industry struggles with the after-effects of COVID, climbing interest rates and uncertainty emanating from the U.S.

“It’s like this cascading waterfall of bad news,” said Ryan Berlin, chief intelligence officer at Rennie Marketing, one of Greater Vancouver’s major presale marketing companies.

Rennie laid of 25 per cent of its staff late last week and Mr. Berlin said many people are not expecting the market to start functioning anywhere near normal for two years.

Central 1 Credit Union economist Brian Yu said Monday the industry is in recession.

In metropolitan Vancouver, there are currently 2,500 condo units completed and unsold and that number could climb to 3,700 by the end of the year, said Mr. Berlin.

There is no agency that collects statistics about how many presale buyers are not completing their purchases. But Mr. Berlin said his company is seeing a lot of presale buyers adding family members to their contracts as a way of qualifying for mortgages.

One problem many buyers are having is that their units are being assessed at less than what they paid for them, which means banks are reducing the amount they will lend and buyers are having to make up the difference with additional cash of their own, said Mr. Berlin.

As developers reluctantly contemplate lowering prices, that will add to the pain, since those lowered prices will lead to lower assessments overall for everyone with similar units.

The situation is bad enough that the B.C. government agency that monitors presale condo contracts now says that it is starting to collect new data to get a better picture of what is going on.

The BC Financial Services Authority “does not have sales-related data for presale developments but is monitoring the challenging environment impacting the development industry as a consequence of economic uncertainty and rising construction costs,” said an e-mailed statement provided to The Globe and Mail.

The authority recently changed the rules to allow developers of larger projects to have an extended marketing period of 18 months, rather than the current year that was the limit before, because of the escalating bad conditions in the residential-construction industry.

Boffo chose not to apply for that, saying the trend line didn’t make it seem like more time was going to improve things.

“We’re one of the more fortunate groups that haven’t started construction,” said Ms. West. “To protect the master plan, we are going to wait and see what things look like later this year.”

That was bittersweet news for buyers, each of whom Ms. West contacted personally.

“Of course I was disappointed,” said Nicole Robson, a 51-year-old Burnaby single-detached homeowner who was counting on being able to move in sometime in 2028. “But it was handled in the best way, with a lot of integrity.”

She got the call from Boffo Wednesday almost two weeks ago and had her deposit with interest back that Saturday – a relief since she had borrowed money for the more than six-figure deposits she had paid out to that date.

Ms. Robson said she’s planning to wait for Boffo to restart the project, where she’s been promised the same two-bedroom, 1,300-square-foot unit at the same price – or lower, if that’s what the state of real estate is when the first Bassano tower goes ahead.

That puts her in a better place than many other presale condo buyers in Vancouver and Toronto who are struggling to figure out how to come up with larger down payments on their lower-value condos as completion nears.

Some are simply walking away from very large initial deposits.

That is prompting some pushback from developers. In Toronto, developers have initiated more than a hundred lawsuits in efforts to get their full purchase price from presale buyers.

According to statistics available in Toronto, there were 23,918 in the pipeline or completed in the first quarter of 2025 for the Toronto-Hamilton area. Of those, about 1,900 were completed and ready to be moved into. It’s expected that number will rise to 2,400 by the end of the year.

Prices have declined 10 per cent to $1,524 a square foot compared to the peak in 2022, according to Bullpen Research and Consulting.

Vancouver prices have also come down. Nothing in downtown Vancouver, currently the most expensive part of the region, can get more than $1,800 a square foot, said Mr. Berlin.

At the pre-COVID peak, developers were sometimes asking up to $3,000 a square foot for luxury condos downtown.

For more than a year, many developers had been trying to entice buyers by giving them all kinds of perks – from free beer for months to lower mortgage rates from a third-party financial institution to $20,000 decorating budgets.

One of the province’s largest developers, Anthem Properties Group, just announced a new “homeownership accelerator” initiative to have its team members work with any buyer to figure out any possible strategy to enable them to purchase: rent-to-own agreements for both existing tenants and new buyers, lower down payments, flexibility in the deposit timing, whatever it takes.

“People are sitting on the sidelines. … So we came up with a program that offers the most flexibility to the buyer,” said Anthem’s vice-president for marketing, Dennis Kim.

Editor’s note: A previous version of this article incorrectly referred to Central Credit Union. The company's name is Central 1 Credit Union.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...in-dire-shape/
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  #98  
Old Posted May 13, 2025, 11:05 PM
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Thanks for posting this. I was actually just thinking about that Boffo project, Bassano I believe it was called. It had one of the nicest interiors I've ever seen.

Can't say I'm too surprised though. Prices started at like $900k for a 1 bed and $1400+ a square foot.
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  #99  
Old Posted May 13, 2025, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kja384 View Post
Thanks for posting this. I was actually just thinking about that Boffo project, Bassano I believe it was called. It had one of the nicest interiors I've ever seen.

Can't say I'm too surprised though. Prices started at like $900k for a 1 bed and $1400+ a square foot.
Hopefully this is the start of a correction that will put an end to prices that high for units like that. Corrections are painful but something as to give to bring prices back in line with local incomes.

Let's hope that government does not step in to prop up this kind of development. If they want to step in, offer to purchase the property at a fair rate and develop social/subsidized housing on it. And local gov't should get real with their development fees.
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  #100  
Old Posted May 16, 2025, 4:08 PM
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What's behind Vancouver's condo market slowdown?
18 hours agoNewsDuration3:01
Hasan Juma, a Realtor with Oakwyn Realty, says many condo sellers are struggling with what to do with newly-built units sitting empty in Vancouver. He tells BC Today host Michelle Eliot it started with a surge of investor purchases of presale condos circa 2021 that were eventually affected by increased rates and changes to short-term rental legislation.


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