Should we be renaming places and things in Ottawa-Gatineau?

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

As we remove commemorations relating to important historic figures, the publicity surrounding these removals encourages a predominant one dimensional view of history. So, Sir John A. MacDonald's main achievement becomes the creation of Residential Schools. That has already been achieved with Sir Hector Langevin, and we are well on our way to having a similar view of Egerton Ryerson. Has this really encouraged a deeper view of these people's lives? I don't think so.

We can argue to the contrary, but highly publicized removal of commemorations discourages people from examining history themselves. These people have been discredited. There is nothing more worth knowing.

I don't think that people will forget that Sir John A MacDonald was also responsible to a large extent for achieving Confederation and building the CPR. Everybody is tarnished in one way or another.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

I don't think that people will forget that Sir John A MacDonald was also responsible to a large extent for achieving Confederation and building the CPR. Everybody is tarnished in one way or another.

Strongly disagree with this. Regardless of what impact renaming the parkway will have, SJA's legacy is already completely dominated by the image of a racist, genocidal figure.

You can't name anything for him or honour him anymore.

As a francophone I am actually not a big fan of SJA personally but these facts cannot be denied.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Strongly disagree with this. Regardless of what impact renaming the parkway will have, SJA's legacy is already completely dominated by the image of a racist, genocidal figure.

Not a fan either, and think that he was quite likely a bad and corrupt person. But isn't this kind of indicative of the problem? Regardless of anything else he did, doesn't founding the country have to rank as far and away the biggest and most important part of his legacy? Most public figures have complex legacies, and I see it as distorting history to focus only on terrible policies. Whatever he was as a person (and let's be honest, we'll never know for sure), he did accomplish some incredibly important things that should be recognized.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by phil235

Not a fan either, and think that he was quite likely a bad and corrupt person. But isn't this kind of indicative of the problem? Regardless of anything else he did, doesn't founding the country have to rank as far and away the biggest and most important part of his legacy? Most public figures have complex legacies, and I see it as distorting history to focus only on terrible policies. Whatever he was as a person (and let's be honest, we'll never know for sure), he did accomplish some incredibly important things that should be recognized.

We are on the same page, but his name is still mud.

There is still for the moment stuff named for him like a court(?) building but we'll see how that goes.

The idea of a capital with nothing named for the founder of the country seems weird to me.

Unless you go through a radical transformation like South Africa did.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Strongly disagree with this. Regardless of what impact renaming the parkway will have, SJA's legacy is already completely dominated by the image of a racist, genocidal figure.

You can't name anything for him or honour him anymore.

As a francophone I am actually not a big fan of SJA personally but these facts cannot be denied.

The funny thing is that SJA's record regarding indigenous peoples was not entirely negative.

The North West Mounted Police was founded not just to protect Canadian sovereignty in the west but also to protect indigenous peoples from American attacks.

SJA's government also gave millions of acres of land to the Metis when Manitoba was founded. It was not SJA's fault that they sold most of the land.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The funny thing is that SJA's record regarding indigenous peoples was not entirely negative.

The North West Mounted Police was founded not just to protect Canadian sovereignty in the west but also to protect indigenous peoples from American attacks.

Are people even allowed to say this type of thing in 2022, without say a lightning bolt coming down from the sky to strike them dead?

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The funny thing is that SJA's record regarding indigenous peoples was not entirely negative.

The North West Mounted Police was founded not just to protect Canadian sovereignty in the west but also to protect indigenous peoples from American attacks.

SJA's government also gave millions of acres of land to the Metis when Manitoba was founded. It was not SJA's fault that they sold most of the land.

I also find it humorous/maddening that SJA gets all the grief for indigenous treatment since 1867, but subsequent (and mainly Liberal Party of Canada) PMs and Ministers directly responsible for Indigenous/Crown relations are given a pass. Shouldn't the folks who had mountains of paperwork describing the conditions on FN reserves and residential schools and did little to correct the wrongs be held to a higher standard than SJAM?

[Tesladom]

While I don't necessarily agree that we should rename everything, many places, sites, mountains rivers etc were named after people who didn't really play much of a role in shaping our country or that place (good or bad). References to Champlain are merited IMO, but naming Mount Logan to honour a geologist is dumb (or even worse calling it Mount Trudeau). The US renamed McKinley to Denali, that was a good move
Likewise Queen Charlotte Islands changed name to their ancestral name of Haida Gwaii, Frobisher Bay (city) renamed Iqaluit etc...
Places are named after British Royalty that do not belong, I support getting rid of that.

On the flip side, history doesn't see Colonel By in a positive light, but he was still very instrumental in the creation and shaping of our city

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

While I don't necessarily agree that we should rename everything, many places, sites, mountains rivers etc were named after people who didn't really play much of a role in shaping our country or that place (good or bad). References to Champlain are merited IMO, but naming Mount Logan to honour a geologist is dumb (or even worse calling it Mount Trudeau). The US renamed McKinley to Denali, that was a good move
Likewise Queen Charlotte Islands changed name to their ancestral name of Haida Gwaii, Frobisher Bay (city) renamed Iqaluit etc...
Places are named after British Royalty that do not belong, I support getting rid of that.

On the flip side, history doesn't see Colonel By in a positive light, but he was still very instrumental in the creation and shaping of our city

This also seems sensible to me.

[Truenorth00]

Can we get the Ottawa River and Rockcliffe Parkways back?


I always thought SJAM was dumb especially when most other parkways after named for geographic location or landmarks in this city.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Can we get the Ottawa River and Rockcliffe Parkways back?


I always thought SJAM was dumb especially when most other parkways after named for geographic location or landmarks in this city.

I agree, I thought it was dumb idea to rename them in the first place. Although I wouldn't mind renaming Aviation Parkway since there is already an Airport Parkway.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

I agree, I thought it was dumb idea to rename them in the first place. Although I wouldn't mind renaming Aviation Parkway since there is already an Airport Parkway.

Definitely, the Aviation Parkway should be returned to its original name, the Eastern Parkway.

Streets should not be renamed except when we want them renamed.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Definitely, the Aviation Parkway should be returned to its original name, the Eastern Parkway.

Streets should not be renamed except when we want them renamed.

Yes of course. Since "Eastern" is a name of great historic significance for Ottawa and Canada.

Remember, Peter Lougheed once said "Let those eastern bastards freeze in the dark!"

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Definitely, the Aviation Parkway should be returned to its original name, the Eastern Parkway.

TIL it was originally called the Eastern Parkway. I had no idea, probably because I didn't have any reason to go east of the Rideau River (except to take the Queensway to the St. Laurent Shopping Centre or to go to the Science Museum) while it was called that.

I was going to say the SJAM should become the Western River Parkway with the GEC being the Eastern River Parkway but your piece of history now nixes that idea.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

TIL it was originally called the Eastern Parkway. I had no idea, probably because I didn't have any reason to go east of the Rideau River (except to take the Queensway to the St. Laurent Shopping Centre or to go to the Science Museum) while it was called that.

I was going to say the SJAM should become the Western River Parkway with the GEC being the Eastern River Parkway but your piece of history now nixes that idea.

Originally, the Aviation parkway only ran from Ogilvie Road to Montreal Road. This was before even the first version of the Aviation museum was built at the Rockcliffe airport. The parkway was renamed when the new museum opened and the parkway was extended north of Montreal Road.

The 'Eastern Parkway' was the first phase of an ambitious project to build a ring road across the south tier of the city and connecting to the west end of the SJAM parkway at Carling. Parts of that corridor still exist undeveloped while other parts have been sold for housing. The transitway running south from Carling is the west end of this corridor. My family was expropriated in 1949 for this project at Bank Street where the railway overpass is today. Ledbury Park is where my family lived up to 1949 and an extension of the Eastern Parkway was to run through that park.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Can we get the Ottawa River and Rockcliffe Parkways back?


I always thought SJAM was dumb especially when most other parkways after named for geographic location or landmarks in this city.

No, not Ottawa River. Rockcliffe would be fine though.

Not sure about your claim though. Think of Queen Elizabeth and Colonel By.

[DEWLine]

And now we have the impending Haiku Street.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...!4d-75.7492088

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

And now we have the impending Haiku Street.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...!4d-75.7492088

?

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

And now we have the impending Haiku Street.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...!4d-75.7492088

Haiku Street spreads a
suburb littered with townhomes.
Welcome to the hood.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Arcologist

For starters, I don't know why we have to rename absolutely everything with an Algonquin name!?! I understand and appreciate and wholeheartedly support measures for reconciliation, but renaming everything to me is not the solution. There are other ways to honour indigenous history and culture. I liked Nepean Point, but oh well.

Yeah, I have to agree. I feel there's been an over compensation on certain aspects such as renamings for Algonquin elders or words, along with consultations that seem heavily based on the Indigenous perspective, while other, more important things like access to clean water is still dragging, with no final resolution in sight.

Renaming the SJAM to honour the Algonquins made sense as the timing for the first renaming was puzzling (during the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and after Harper apologized for the residential school system), and it was to be re-named due to SJAM's role in the residential school system. I'd argue the same for the PoW Bridge (we already have a PoW Drive, though named for a different PoW + link between French/English/Indigenous), but this one seemed unnecessary. That said, I won't lose any sleep over it.