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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 4:51 PM
nickbeaulieu nickbeaulieu is offline
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Ya, I'm betting it's vastly different when it's built.
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2017, 2:28 AM
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UDP - Approved with recommendations / By the skin of it's teeth

So, I went down to the UDP meeting again this week; I think the members are starting to wonder if I'm a sucker for punishment. The discussion on this proposal lasted almost an hour and half, and included a 10 minute-ish slide show from Westbank. The UDP's unexpected reaction to this project alone made it worth attending the meeting.

I learned that Westbank is apparently willing to start construction without having contracts for the lease space, that they want to build the project on spec, and will be taking responsibility for the upkeep of the green walls. The green walls will be vines growing out of planter boxes attached to the bottom of each green wall metal screen. There will also be punched windows behind the metal screens, rather than a whole glass panel.

When the panel took over, that's where the good day ended for the applicant team. Aside from the use, height, density, and form, I'm not sure if there was one prevailing aspect that the panel liked. The rooftop space was felt to be in a different language from the rest of the building (funny to note, one of panelists commented that the roof area looked like a Star Destroyer). Both the Georgia and Homer streetscape received criticism. The Georgia frontage, particularly with it's sharp corner, pushed pedestrians away from the building. However, it was the Homer face that received the brunt of the criticism, with the consensus being that the sunken patio related horribly to the public realm. Also critiqued was how the project related to Library Square. It was felt that continuing the terracotta bricks from the Square was more tokenism and was very unpopular.

The criticism did not stop there, but continued to the rest of the building. The panel felt the project was too busy and needed to be calmed down. This should be accomplished while paying more attention to solar gain and form (which was also lacking).
The glazing received criticism for not responding to an office environment; implementing fritting was recommended to hide the clutter (boxes, wires, desks, etc) associated with office space.

Lastly, it seemed to me that the panel had no faith in the green "living" wall. There were concerns about sustainability and maintenance; would the green space be taken care of for the next 20, 40 ,or 60 years? While there was a mention of the Evergreen Building, it was to contrast the difference between the successful greenery of that building vs the 50 ft vine walls proposed here. The panel highly suggested scrapping the feature, and implementing a metal paneling or some other high quality material instead.

Finally when the barrage was over and it was the applicant team's tun to respond, it was clear that they were slightly shell shocked. I don't believe anyone saw this building coming under this much fire. The applicant team must have been very aware they were on the verge of being instructed to resubmit, as there was an impassioned plea to save it from this fate. A commitment was made that, if the proposal was allowed to move forward, all of the issues that were raised would be addressed before it came back to the UDP for the Development Application.

Perhaps it's because of the huge demand for office space, but applicants were ultimately successful in convincing the majority of the members in attendance to Approve the project, albeit with a large list of recommendations. The city doesn't track the vote count anymore, and out of respect I won't either, but I will say that the project had a very close shave with resubmission. I was later given the impression that someone who voted in favor of the project would, after more thought, like to have recast their vote. It's important to note that I'm simply an amateur, and sitting a distance away from the speakers, so I might have unintentionally missed details or misheard at times. In short, don't take this as gospel, or that I'm implying direct quotes to any specific members of the UDP.
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  #83  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2017, 3:06 AM
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logan5 logan5 is offline
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Hey. Thanks for all the thorough info.

My guess is that the UDP is a little confused by this building. Not sure what to make of it so they go to their default mode, but still pass it.
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  #84  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2017, 3:52 AM
red-paladin red-paladin is offline
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Thanks for the post!
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  #85  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2017, 7:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feathered Friend View Post
Lastly, it seemed to me that the panel had no faith in the green "living" wall. There were concerns about sustainability and maintenance; would the green space be taken care of for the next 20, 40 ,or 60 years? While there was a mention of the Evergreen Building, it was to contrast the difference between the successful greenery of that building vs the 50 ft vine walls proposed here. The panel highly suggested scrapping the feature, and implementing a metal paneling or some other high quality material instead.

Finally when the barrage was over and it was the applicant team's tun to respond, it was clear that they were slightly shell shocked. I don't believe anyone saw this building coming under this much fire. The applicant team must have been very aware they were on the verge of being instructed to resubmit, as there was an impassioned plea to save it from this fate.
Shell shocked? Only if because the developer thought their green-washing would translate into Vision's vision of the future.

I'm glad to hear some common sense coming from the UDP, considering how much design-speak gibberish they can spout sometimes.
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  #86  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2017, 8:42 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Thanks for the info!

For the green walls, they should consider vines hanging DOWN instead of climbing UP.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2018, 4:32 AM
Feathered Friend Feathered Friend is offline
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Coming soon to a city council near you

I've heard from a very reliable source that this project is expected to be at a public hearing sometime in February. I would like to think this project will sail through, but given the UDP's response, and how iconic it is, anything is possible.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2018, 5:48 PM
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I think it would be more appropriate to say that because Westbank is heading the project, it will be guaranteed smooth sailing. They're kind of like Vision's "court developer".
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  #89  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2018, 6:36 PM
EastVanMark EastVanMark is offline
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Quote:
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The panel felt the project was too busy and needed to be calmed down.
Good ole UDP. Ensuring architecture is "calmed down" in this city.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2018, 7:16 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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How is this beautiful building "busy" and needs "calming down" when the very ugly neighbouring art gallery with multiple boxes get approved so easily?

I don't know how this tower can be simplified further. Perhaps give them a rectangular block for resubmission? I'm pretty sure UDP will then give it high praise.
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2018, 4:23 AM
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mcminsen mcminsen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feathered Friend View Post
I've heard from a very reliable source that this project is expected to be at a public hearing sometime in February. I would like to think this project will sail through, but given the UDP's response, and how iconic it is, anything is possible.


I got this in the mail today.



my pic

Last edited by mcminsen; Feb 9, 2018 at 6:56 AM.
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2018, 6:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
How is this beautiful building "busy" and needs "calming down" when the very ugly neighbouring art gallery with multiple boxes get approved so easily?

I don't know how this tower can be simplified further. Perhaps give them a rectangular block for resubmission? I'm pretty sure UDP will then give it high praise.
I agree. This looks like a fantastic building.

The only complaint I could see if the floor plans don't allow for maximizing the number of cubicles that go into the space. That said, that should be the problem of the owner not the city design police. This building is likely going to be filled with SME type, that is a positive.
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2018, 7:45 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Agreed.
Commercial viability of the layout is the developer's problem, not the City's to nose into.
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2018, 4:54 PM
rofina rofina is offline
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Too busy?

I need to educate myself on why the UDP exists and who they are.

Some of the comments coming out of these people are ridiculous.

I guess being sandwiched between two hideous monstrosities that are Telus and VPL make this too busy?
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2018, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rofina View Post

I need to educate myself on why the UDP exists and who they are.
http://vancouver.ca/your-government/...ign-panel.aspx
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2018, 6:23 PM
rofina rofina is offline
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So currently its 3 architects, 2 landscape architects, and a couple engineers commenting on build form throughout Vancouver. The only artist spot remains vacant.

I don't know how I feel about this.

I suppose its a lot like a peer review for a paper, but architecture is very subjective, I'm not sure its appropriate for a bunch of presumably competing firms to be commenting on projects.

I would suggest a panel of this type, if even required, should include more of the arts community and local business community.

These buildings, after all, should be designed to please you and I.
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2018, 7:22 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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They, and City policies, are single-handedly responsible for the dumbing down of so many of our buildings it's just way too absurd and ridiculous.

Perhaps we should have more worldly architects who have been involved with great international projects rather than a couple of local ones who have "Vancouver Special" mentalities sitting on the panel of the UDP.
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  #98  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2018, 9:28 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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From Heritage Vancouver twitter today:


LAST CHANCE TO SEE what was once “the largest cigar factory west of the great lakes”
and a long line of automobile-related businesses, the former Stettler Cigar Factory at
418 W Georgia St, designed in 1913 by Sharp & Thompson, is being prepped for #DEMOLITION
https://twitter.com/HeritageVan


https://twitter.com/HeritageVan


https://twitter.com/HeritageVan
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  #99  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2018, 1:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
They, and City policies, are single-handedly responsible for the dumbing down of so many of our buildings it's just way too absurd and ridiculous.

Perhaps we should have more worldly architects who have been involved with great international projects rather than a couple of local ones who have "Vancouver Special" mentalities sitting on the panel of the UDP.
Alternatively.... Abolish this board and replace it with nothing...

This would save the tax payers money, remove an extra step in getting a building approved, remove uncertainty, rework and holding costs for a developer that has to delay a project because of these people.
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  #100  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 4:58 AM
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