The Rideau Canal

[Richard Eade]

I’m not sure where that “ice pathway” is, but it looks as if it is in an area that doesn’t get a lot of frost-heave. The picture shows the refrigerant tubes and re-bar before the concrete is poured. There does not appear to be any segmentation of the tubes to create individual, isolated, ‘cold pads’, in case of a break.

In Ottawa, there is a reason that we no longer use concrete roads. They crack, and the slabs then tip differentially. This is a main cause for Carling annually making the top of Ottawa’s worst road list. Carling still has crooked, moving, concrete slabs under the asphalt.

What you seem to be suggesting is an 8 km long concrete pathway running along the bottom of the canal – adding a floor to the canal. This would need a substantial base, likely involving driven piles and a full substructure. Remember, any material under the concrete pad will be saturated. Show me a concrete sidewalk in Ottawa that hasn’t cracked within the first few years – even though they are constructed in relatively short segments.

You might have noticed that the chilled ice surfaces in Ottawa tend to be inside. This allows the base under the pad to be kept dry and free from frost-heave. An exception is the Rink of Dreams. It is outdoors, but it is built on the roof of a below-grade parking structure – which means that there will be no frost-heave under the pad of the Rink of Dreams.

Basically, what that picture is showing would not be suitable for Ottawa. Here, we can’t even get heating elements embedded in concrete LRT platforms to be reliable.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I’m not sure where that “ice pathway” is, but it looks as if it is in an area that doesn’t get a lot of frost-heave. The picture shows the refrigerant tubes and re-bar before the concrete is poured. There does not appear to be any segmentation of the tubes to create individual, isolated, ‘cold pads’, in case of a break.

In Ottawa, there is a reason that we no longer use concrete roads. They crack, and the slabs then tip differentially. This is a main cause for Carling annually making the top of Ottawa’s worst road list. Carling still has crooked, moving, concrete slabs under the asphalt.

What you seem to be suggesting is an 8 km long concrete pathway running along the bottom of the canal – adding a floor to the canal. This would need a substantial base, likely involving driven piles and a full substructure. Remember, any material under the concrete pad will be saturated. Show me a concrete sidewalk in Ottawa that hasn’t cracked within the first few years – even though they are constructed in relatively short segments.

You might have noticed that the chilled ice surfaces in Ottawa tend to be inside. This allows the base under the pad to be kept dry and free from frost-heave. An exception is the Rink of Dreams. It is outdoors, but it is built on the roof of a below-grade parking structure – which means that there will be no frost-heave under the pad of the Rink of Dreams.

Basically, what that picture is showing would not be suitable for Ottawa. Here, we can’t even get heating elements embedded in concrete LRT platforms to be reliable.

'I know this is all very dreamy and pie in the sky....'

I like the thought exercise even though I know it's not possible

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Civic Hospital, uOttawa, City Hall, Convention Centre.

This could be an investment in a Green future, not just a way to preserve a heritage and tourism asset.

This would use a massive amount of energy and other resources. It is a Dubai level of waste; there is nothing green about it.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by acottawa

This would use a massive amount of energy and other resources. It is a Dubai level of waste; there is nothing green about it.

Wrong. Water source heat pumping from waterways can be very green and efficient and reduce carbon emissions on an enormous scale. Sweden and Austria are leaders in this area.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Wrong. Water source heat pumping from waterways can be very green and efficient and reduce carbon emissions on an enormous scale. Sweden and Austria are leaders in this area.

They don’t do it in stagnant water 50 cm deep and they don’t freeze the body of water.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by acottawa

They don’t do it in stagnant water 50 cm deep and they don’t freeze the body of water.

True, but we have a few more waterways in this city to draw from ������ I wonder if the canal could be fortified to be a couple of feet deeper in the winter and have more running water under the ice.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

True, but we have a few more waterways in this city to draw from ������ I wonder if the canal could be fortified to be a couple of feet deeper in the winter and have more running water under the ice.

I think running water is harder to freeze than stagnant water, which is one of the reasons they drain the canal.

To me the lowest hanging fruit is disconnecting the storm drains from the canal. A salt free canal would freeze a lot easier.

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by acottawa

They don’t do it in stagnant water 50 cm deep and they don’t freeze the body of water.

Exactly, the whole point of using water is that it stays above freezing point even in the Winter, so it has more heat to move around.

This proposal is just a much more expensive and energy intensive alternative to air heat pumps.

[Harley613]

Good points folks. I'm still enjoying the back and forth on this, even if we keep uncovering obstacles. One day if we keep this going we will get that canal frozen again

[roger1818]

You wouldn’t freeze the canal as a green way to heat buildings but if we were to decide to freeze the canal (and it’s feasible to do so), using the waste heat to help heat buildings is greener than letting it escape into the atmosphere directly.

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by roger1818

You wouldn’t freeze the canal as a green way to heat buildings but if we were to decide to freeze the canal (and it’s feasible to do so), using the waste heat to help heat buildings is greener than letting it escape into the atmosphere directly.

Yeah for sure, I'd be curious what the energy cost of freezing the canal would be. Water holds a ton of energy, so it'd be a lot of heat to move out at once, but at the same time it is freezing naturally... just not fast and deeply enough.

It's a shame it would be such an expensive infrastructure to install, since I imagine that just helping along the ice formation a little bit would go a long way.

[Horus]

I'm still trying to reconcile having an extensive chilling pipe network installed in the canal and its use for summer boating. One accidentally dropped anchor could be catastrophic.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Horus

I'm still trying to reconcile having an extensive chilling pipe network installed in the canal and its use for summer boating. One accidentally dropped anchor could be catastrophic.

How would the chilling pipes get damaged when they would be encased in concrete like an arena?

[OTownandDown]

I think Ecology Ottawa would probably have an issue with you first killing and then freezing solid any survivors in the mud in the bottom of the Canal with your overlaid concrete pad.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I think Ecology Ottawa would probably have an issue with you first killing and then freezing solid any survivors in the mud in the bottom of the Canal with your overlaid concrete pad.

Hey this is a dream thread, get out of here with your realism and worries!

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Harley613

How would the chilling pipes get damaged when they would be encased in concrete like an arena?

Arenas freeze an inch on top of the concrete. That might be a good way to get a base but assume a full blown heatpump would have to be more elaborate.

Was the temperature even the problem this year? Seems to me it was snow and the NCC's typical fatalist attitude as we ended up with a cold March..

[LRTeverywhere]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Was the temperature even the problem this year? Seems to me it was snow and the NCC's typical fatalist attitude as we ended up with a cold March..

I think the snow was definitely a part of it, but they typically want several days of -10 to get good quality ice before they open it, and we didn't get much of that this year, and when we did, we did end up getting snow storms.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Arenas freeze an inch on top of the concrete. That might be a good way to get a base but assume a full blown heatpump would have to be more elaborate.

Was the temperature even the problem this year? Seems to me it was snow and the NCC's typical fatalist attitude as we ended up with a cold March..

The ice that formed on the canal was garbage ice with bad structural integrity, because of the sloppier conditions in January.

[J.OT13]

National Capital Commission
@NCC_CCN

Update | Rideau Canal Lighting System Rehabilitation💡

The lighting systems within the #RideauCanal corridor have deteriorated beyond their lifecycle. In collaboration with
@OttawaCity
, we’ll begin work to replace and repair them. The work is expected to be completed in 2025.

https://twitter.com/NCC_CCN/status/1...C8md3k0uItAAAA

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

https://twitter.com/NCC_CCN/status/1...C8md3k0uItAAAA

Maybe they'll use a better fixture than the stupid globes which send most of the light up as light pollution and actively blind pathway users in the darker areas.