[Halifax] Skye Halifax (1565 Granville) | 66 m | 2 x 21 fl | U/C

[someone123]

They started adding deadlines to the development agreements a few years ago because some were left orphaned for decades. That being said, many extensions to more recent development agreements seem very perfunctory.

This project is not "dead", but I am not sure how the process works if it is voted down at council. Either way the land is still owned by UG.

[fenwick16]

I just went back and checked the facts on this one. The HRM council actually approved this one 15-5 back in 2006. It makes me wonder how projects that are overwhelming approved can get bogged down in appeals. ( http://dcnonl.com/article/id24399 ).

[someone123]

Yeah, I wasn't sure if the deadline was set before or after URB. It's pretty unfair to set deadlines and then have an appeals process of random length. The real "approval" date for UG was when the URB decision came out, which was released in September 2007. I wonder if council even can enforce these deadlines given what happened. I wonder if the HRM even can enforce the deadline in this case..?

Here is the PDF: http://www.canlii.org/en/ns/nsuarb/d...7nsuarb122.pdf

It's crazy that it took 1.5 years for the appeal alone in this case. Had the development proceeded after council approval it's very possible that it would have gotten built in a timely manner.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

Yeah, I wasn't sure if the deadline was set before or after URB. It's pretty unfair to set deadlines and then have an appeals process of random length. The real "approval" date for UG was when the URB decision came out, which was released in September 2007. I wonder if council even can enforce these deadlines given what happened. I wonder if the HRM even can enforce the deadline in this case..?

Here is the PDF: http://www.canlii.org/en/ns/nsuarb/d...7nsuarb122.pdf

It's crazy that it took 1.5 years for the appeal alone in this case. Had the development proceeded after council approval it's very possible that it would have gotten built in a timely manner.

I read somewhere that the new Downtown Halifax Land Use By-Law has simplified the development process. Is it still possible for the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia to appeal any decision of the HRM council? If it is, then the appeal process should be expedited - for example any appeal should be determined within 3 months of the appeal. I keep hoping that these constant appeals will come to an end.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I read somewhere that the new Downtown Halifax Land Use By-Law has simplified the development process. Is it still possible for the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia to appeal any decision of the HRM council? If it is, then the appeal process should be expedited - for example any appeal should be determined within 3 months of the appeal. I keep hoping that these constant appeals will come to an end.

I believe appeals of the Downtown Land Use By-law go to Council. Can anyone confirm this?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

I believe appeals of the Downtown Land Use By-law go to Council. Can anyone confirm this?

I looked it up and found this ( http://www.halifax.ca/capitaldistric...signManual.pdf ):

(15) A decision by the Committee to approve, approve with conditions, or deny a substantive site plan approval may be appealed to Council in accordance with the Halifax Regional Municipality Charter.

I guess what has changed with the new By-Laws, is that it is much clearer in terms of what structure and height can be built in each downtown section. In the past the Municipal By-Laws were quite vague and could therefore be easily appealed on just about any grounds by the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia to the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board. However, since the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board is a provincial organization their rules likely haven't changed. So, if their rules haven't changed then the Heritage Trust, or vice versa a developer, will likely still be able to appeal just about any decision (they might not have much success though if council's decision follows the rules in the new By-Laws, other than to delay developments). Hopefully the appeals process will be sped up by the clarity provided in the new By-Laws. (This is all conjecture on my part - if I am wrong then please let me know).

[someone123]

I'm not sure what the overall process is but I think that staff handle quantitative aspects of the site plan approval process while the rest is supposed to be handled by design review committee. It seems like it's no longer possible to appeal on the basis of things like height, which makes way more sense and was a big reason for having all of this in the first place, but I've never really seen a clear description of the full process.

[fenwick16]

I am not sure if this applies or not:

In as-of-right situations, completed permit and subdivision applications made prior to Council's first notice of it's intention to adopt new or amended planning strategies and bylaws are entitled to be reviewed for approval based on the requirements in effect on the day their applications were filed with the Municipality. Staff cannot withhold approval if the application meets all relevant regulations in effect at the time of the application. on page 10 of 21 of this pdf file: http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...0112ca1113.pdf .

The statement above came from a document on grandfathering of projects, however, the UG project was not grandfathered; it was already approved.

I am not sure if the United Golf development is considered to be as-of-right, however, if it is judged based on the By-Laws in effect at the time it was approved, then I think that it should be ok, if it gets an extension. There are all sorts of conflicting statements, so it would take a lawyer to figure it out.

[someone123]

There were some details about this today on Allnovascotia.

The developer plans to start by 2012, which is the end of the original 5-year period granted by the 2007 development agreement.

Apparently he wants to finish up the second Waterton tower. The first tower was complete a couple of years ago but the second was delayed due to legal issues.

Slightly disappointing to see more delays but it's good to see that this project is still alive. Needless to say, if it's built it will be a huge benefit for the downtown.

[halifaxboyns]

My understanding of the process is that with an appeal - the whole thing goes on pause. So the approval date changes if the URB appeal leaves the decision to approve the project and thus would reflect the date of the decision of the URB - that's how I understand it. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

So that should give them more time too get started and they can certainly apply to extend. I don't see any reason why council wouldn't allow an extension; although I'm sure that the same people who voted against the project will do so with an extension (the principle of the matter).

I suspect that UG would rather apply for an extension versus going through the whole thing again. I'm not surprised that they've delayed the project though. With office demand in Halifax being rather soft, it's probably in their best interest to let the economy stabilize and show some signs of life. Plus it may be more difficult for them to obtain financing in light of the economy (although they may have already secured it).

[someone123]

The state reason for the delay is that they are working on other projects and can only take on so much at once.

I would also imagine that financing is an issue for this project. It's not really an office project, however. It's split residential/hotel with 100,000 sq. ft. of combined commercial space in the "mixed use podium" (office + retail).

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Can the Halifax market support all the proposed hotels? UG, Salter, convention centre - that's a lot of new rooms, plus the four points Sheraton and the hotel on Salter next to the Brewery Market are also quite new.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

Can the Halifax market support all the proposed hotels? UG, Salter, convention centre - that's a lot of new rooms, plus the four points Sheraton and the hotel on Salter next to the Brewery Market are also quite new.

I wonder this also. I wonder if the hotel tower could be another residential tower. Maybe one tower could be rental and the other condo. The more residential development downtown the better.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

Can the Halifax market support all the proposed hotels? UG, Salter, convention centre - that's a lot of new rooms, plus the four points Sheraton and the hotel on Salter next to the Brewery Market are also quite new.

Short answer No. Long answer No.

There is close 1,400 hotel rooms proposed for downtown.

The first few floors of International Place are rumoured to be hotel. Trade centre will feature 400, Salter 100, Queenslanding 250 etc.

And that doesn't even count the suburban options

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by sdm

Short answer No. Long answer No.

There is close 1,400 hotel rooms proposed for downtown.

The first few floors of International Place are rumoured to be hotel. Trade centre will feature 400, Salter 100, Queenslanding 250 etc.

And that doesn't even count the suburban options

But if the new convention centre were built - wouldn't larger conferences see the need to use all those rooms? I'm just thinking out loud here and it does assume Nova Centre is built; but I know when big conventions hit here in Calgary it's tough to find a room and there are lots of hotels around DT. The Delta Bow Valley I can see out my condo window, the Marriot, the Hyatt, not to mention the Westin and Sheraton in Eau Claire. Then there is the Sandman just on the edge of downtown plus Best Western, Holiday Inn and the new one (the legermain).

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

But if the new convention centre were built - wouldn't larger conferences see the need to use all those rooms? I'm just thinking out loud here and it does assume Nova Centre is built; but I know when big conventions hit here in Calgary it's tough to find a room and there are lots of hotels around DT. The Delta Bow Valley I can see out my condo window, the Marriot, the Hyatt, not to mention the Westin and Sheraton in Eau Claire. Then there is the Sandman just on the edge of downtown plus Best Western, Holiday Inn and the new one (the legermain).

I enjoy the thought of Halifax becoming an increasingly more popular destination that will require more hotel rooms. I think that this is possible with the proper promotion and amenities that will attract visitors.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by sdm

Short answer No. Long answer No.

There is close 1,400 hotel rooms proposed for downtown.

It is too bad that Halifax hasn't gotten any major new hotels in a long time. It's been a steady stream of smaller hotels, and not many interesting boutique-style hotels either...

I do not think that 1,400 hotel rooms will be built downtown but I do think that demand will vary depending on what happens. For example, there will be demand for more hotel rooms if a new convention centre is built.

[someone123]

There was another article tonight in Allnovascotia about this development.

Navid Saberi is again stating that he does not intend to sell the land and is hiring architects to tweak the design. New renderings could be out in a few months.

The development agreement has about a year and half left before it requires an extension.

I'd be really happy to see this one go up obviously, though this isn't the first time we've heard that it will be about a year...

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by someone123

There was another article tonight in Allnovascotia about this development.

Navid Saberi is again stating that he does not intend to sell the land and is hiring architects to tweak the design. New renderings could be out in a few months.

The development agreement has about a year and half left before it requires an extension.

I'd be really happy to see this one go up obviously, though this isn't the first time we've heard that it will be about a year...

I would love to see it go up... but I have my doubts after seeing all the issues that UG are having with their other condo developments and the legal battles surrounding some of them. They seem to be up to their necks in other stuff right, so I don't see how they could chew more off, plus in the worst case they may have shot themselves in the foot in the condo world given those issues.

Here's hoping I am wrong.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by someone123

There was another article tonight in Allnovascotia about this development.

Navid Saberi is again stating that he does not intend to sell the land and is hiring architects to tweak the design. New renderings could be out in a few months.

The development agreement has about a year and half left before it requires an extension.

I'd be really happy to see this one go up obviously, though this isn't the first time we've heard that it will be about a year...

Its an interesting article but i certainly see there is some questions that fall from it.

I didnt think one could alter plans for a building, unless they are to meet the building code, without going through the process again?