First Nations propose changing Stanley Park's name to Xwayxway

[racc]

Originally Posted by usog

Honestly, even if they make this request into something remotely reasonable, it should still be shot down. Those 'first nations' groups have a long history of 'give an inch take a mile', this is only just the beginning. If their request is granted, who knows what idiocy they'll want next.

Might want to brush up on your history. I suggest starting with residential schools where the children were forceable taken from their families, beaten if they spoke their language then raped by the "priests". South Africa based apartheid on Canada's system of oppressing the First Nations.

Once you realize how bad it was (and it is still not great), you would realize how pathetic it is overreacting to a proposal to add the native name to the park.

[Yume-sama]

Everyone in the World has ancestors who were mis-treated somewhere, and so very few of us are more than first or second generation Canadians. Only in North America do we seem to have some false sense of guilt for something that happened when none of us were here, and were centuries from even being born in the first place. I'm doubtful naming a high profile park for a small fishing village that went by the wayside 1000 years ago will do much in improving relations. It is a power play, and PC people are all too willing to bend over... again.

Native tribes routinely had bloody wars against each other for land, who says Xwayxway is the actual rightful owner, anyways ? They have no written history, so who knows.

What about the people they oppressed, and killed, and took the land from? Perhaps we ought to just name everything Gaia.

And, people are not overreacting to a name being "ADDED" they are reacting to it being "renamed" which every single report had said.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by racc

Might want to brush up on your history. I suggest starting with residential schools where the children were forceable taken from their families, beaten if they spoke their language then raped by the "priests". South Africa based apartheid on Canada's system of oppressing the First Nations.

Once you realize how bad it was (and it is still not great), you would realize how pathetic it is overreacting to a proposal to add the native name to the park.

When will you start pushing for the rights of Celts who will so shabbily treated by the Saxon and Norman invasions of Great Britain? Or the indigenous Ainu who were so badly treated by the Japanese...etc etc ad nauseum

History happens. Get used to it.

[Yume-sama]

The Japanese still aren't too happy about that whole internment issue (well, actually they're pretty much over it, and are for the most part functioning members of society). Nor the Chinese of being used as slaves to build the railway (them too). And heck, there's even a bunch of people who are STILL ALIVE from them days! And we're not even paying them (or their descendants from dozens of generations) every month! The Chinese community should rise up against this injustice. And perhaps rename the entire railroad in their honour.

[whatnext]

The nation's leading newspaper sums it up best:

At some point someone is going to have to drum up the courage to say “no” to a first nation demand to change a familiar place name to its purported native original. The case of Stanley Park, which first nations leaders would like changed to Xwayxway, provides the perfect opportunity. A firm rejection would help to establish some necessary boundaries in the politics of the renaming of Canadian places....

...Xwayxway may have been the name of a native village at some point, but Stanley Park is not known or celebrated for that. It is known and celebrated as one of the world's great urban parks, and the name it was given at its official opening, after Lord Stanley, the governor-general of Canada in 1888 (yes, that Lord Stanley), is the name that should remain.

There is no shortage of aboriginal names, as it stands, from Saskatchewan to Toronto to Canada itself. Aboriginals are not the only group, however, with claims to Canada and its places.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1627126/

[mr.x]

Every grassroots campaign needs a Facebook group, come on people join and add your buddies!


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Citize...5406060?ref=ts

[Stingray2004]

After my initial thoughts and after digesting and researching the issue a bit more I remain of the same opinion as my initial post with some modification and further perspective. Firstly, Vancouver's downtown peninsula as well as 'Stanley Park' were one contiguous forested area with various First Nation enclaves inhabiting selected areas several hundred years ago.

Xwáýxway was a village situate in the Lumberman's Arch location - not 'Stanley Park' per se. It was a village akin to "Senakw" situate where the Planetarium is now located within Vanier Park. Second Beach was called "St’i’tekekw". Prospect Point was called "Schi'lhus". Numerous First Nations names for 'site specific' areas. Even Siwash Rock was called "Slahkayulsh".

I would therefore suggest that the Parks Board place signage such as the following (placed along BC hwys.) commemorating the First Nation history of these 'site specific' areas. Certainly the entirety of Stanley Park could never be referred to as Xwáýxway from an historical perspective.



http://www.bchwys.ca/TCH/Hwy_1W_WA.htm

Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson said the proposal should be considered, noting that he often heard the park called Xwayxway when he was growing up in the city.

Now why do I have a hard time trying to believe that? A bunch of hollyhock, I say.

[SpongeG]

we can't live in the past or correct the past - all we can do is learn from it and get on with the future

changing the name won't fix anything or appease anyone, it might confuse tourists and create a divide and grow some anti-first nations sentiment that really won't benefit anyone

we all live here together and need to get along first nations included

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

we can't live in the past or correct the past - all we can do is learn from it and get on with the future

changing the name won't fix anything or appease anyone, it might confuse tourists and create a divide and grow some anti-first nations sentiment that really won't benefit anyone

we all live here together and need to get along first nations included

Well, based on the contributions of this site's members, there is absolutely no need "to grow some anti-first nations sentiment"; it's in full bloom. I really had no idea this board was so reactionary. Many of you have proposed a compromise solution, by putting plaques and/or other markers in the respective village areas of the park. Had that been the initial proposal I'm sure it would have elicited the same howls of hatred and derision as the name-change proposal. So maybe you've been outsmarted.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

Well, based on the contributions of this site's members, there is absolutely no need "to grow some anti-first nations sentiment"; it's in full bloom. I really had no idea this board was so reactionary. Many of you have proposed a compromise solution, by putting plaques and/or other markers in the respective village areas of the park. Had that been the initial proposal I'm sure it would have elicited the same howls of hatred and derision as the name-change proposal. So maybe you've been outsmarted.

Excuse me, but I don't think this a roster of "anti-First Nations" and I don't think the statements you have read are "YOWLS OF OF HATRED AND DERISION."

Stanley Park is a park that Vancouverites have grown up with, and just might be the most beloved place in the city. We just want to keep its name, and the fond memories and feelings associated therewith.

It's almost akin to someone forcing your mother to change her name from what she was christened as, to "OOK-PIK," or "NYONKNYONK," or maybe
""MX-477-YXY-blinkkkkk."

And if Lord Stanley had NOT designated that area as a park back then, there would BE NO PARK THERE TODAY !!!!!

Thank you for your understanding.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

Well, based on the contributions of this site's members, there is absolutely no need "to grow some anti-first nations sentiment"; it's in full bloom. I really had no idea this board was so reactionary. Many of you have proposed a compromise solution, by putting plaques and/or other markers in the respective village areas of the park. Had that been the initial proposal I'm sure it would have elicited the same howls of hatred and derision as the name-change proposal. So maybe you've been outsmarted.

i'm not talking about this forum - but reading CBC and the province some of the comments are horrible and anti-first nations

this is just proving whats always there and now its bubbling a little more close to the surface - it will go back down when this issue goes away but its always there

things like this proposal or the idea really, are really soliciting an over reaction

[Yume-sama]

It is not always racist to say our culture should not be wiped out at the behest of a very tiny minority, who has no right (or logical reason) for their request. But I understand pulling the race card has been a very effective weapon, it's just been so overused in the past, less and less people are afraid of being called "racist" for speaking out against such illogical things as this.

And when people are actually able to speak their mind without fear, this ideology, and trampling of the majorities history, is (and has become) hard to spread.

[BCPhil]

As an aside, lets get something strait [sic] (clever eh? you'll see).

Georgia strait has NOT been renamed Salish Sea. So people need to STOP using it as justification of changing the park's name.

Georgia Strait still exists, it's the collection of water/geographic features in the area around Georgia Strait that have been named, for the first time, Salish Sea.

The Salish sea is the collection of: Georgia Strait, Haro Strait, Puget Sound, Strait of Juan de Fuca and all the complex inland waterways leading to and from those bodies). They previously had the unofficial name of Gulf of Georgia (but that didn't include Juan de Fuca or Puget Sound).

Salish sea is like the Mediterranean, it's a collection of features, NOT JUST the Georgia Strait. If people in charge of our city can't even comprehend that simple fact, God help us all.

Georgia strait is still Georgia strait on any and all maps. It's just that the area, that was previously unnamed, now has a name with local significance. It's a 100% different situation than renaming an entire park after one small aspect of it.

It's more akin to if we renamed Georgia strait (directly) to Jeff strait, because I'm sure a Jeff somewhere has at one time or another lived on its banks.

P.S. a lot of things in the area already named after a famous native resident of the area of the park, who do you think Joe Capilano was?

[trofirhen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:StanLordly.jpg

And for more information; this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederi..._Earl_of_Derby

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Excuse me, but I don't think this a roster of "anti-First Nations" and I don't think the statements you have read are "YOWLS OF OF HATRED AND DERISION."

Stanley Park is a park that Vancouverites have grown up with, and just might be the most beloved place in the city. We just want to keep its name, and the fond memories and feelings associated therewith.

It's almost akin to someone forcing your mother to change her name from what she was christened as, to "OOK-PIK," or "NYONKNYONK," or maybe
""MX-477-YXY-blinkkkkk."

And if Lord Stanley had NOT designated that area as a park back then, there would BE NO PARK THERE TODAY !!!!!

Thank you for your understanding.

Just to clarify things a bit, the park was actually the idea of the very first city council of the City of Vancouver (their first act as council, I believe, was to ask for the park from the feds who owned the land as a military reserve, hence HMCS Discovery) and the second mayor David Oppenheimer, really made things happen and opened the Park and named it after Stanley. It was Oppenheimer's idea to name the park after Stanley, to give it national significance and recognition and to honor an amazing character, who would be the first Governor General of Canada to Visit BC the next year (and the name probably helped convince the federal government to lease the land to BC for 99 years).

Stanley Park might not be the creation of Lord Stanley, but the people who did create it thought it would be a great honor to name the park after Stanley, who was an avid fan of the outdoors and a very important figure in Canada. And Stanley did come to BC to personally dedicate the park and make official the transaction from military reserve to park.

It's a great honor we gave a great man, and it annoys me that only 120 years later Lord Stanley is such an obscure name that defecating on his memory is no big deal to some people. Stanley Park isn't named after the Queen's Scottish terrier, a company that makes hand tools, or the carpet cleaners. He gave us the freaking Stanley cup for crying out loud and did a lot for Canada and BC.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Just to clarify things a bit, the park was actually the idea of the very first city council of the City of Vancouver (their first act as council, I believe, was to ask for the park from the feds who owned the land as a military reserve, hence HMCS Discovery) and the second mayor David Oppenheimer, really made things happen and opened the Park and named it after Stanley. It was Oppenheimer's idea to name the park after Stanley, to give it national significance and recognition and to honor an amazing character, who would be the first Governor General of Canada to Visit BC the next year (and the name probably helped convince the federal government to lease the land to BC for 99 years).

Stanley Park might not be the creation of Lord Stanley, but the people who did create it thought it would be a great honor to name the park after Stanley, who was an avid fan of the outdoors and a very important figure in Canada. And Stanley did come to BC to personally dedicate the park and make official the transaction from military reserve to park.

It's a great honor we gave a great man, and it annoys me that only 120 years later Lord Stanley is such an obscure name that defecating on his memory is no big deal to some people. Stanley Park isn't named after the Queen's Scottish terrier, a company that makes hand tools, or the carpet cleaners. He gave us the freaking Stanley cup for crying out loud and did a lot for Canada and BC.

Thank you for the clarification ! It's great to see so many people taking an interest in the city - and the country's - history !!

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

Well, based on the contributions of this site's members, there is absolutely no need "to grow some anti-first nations sentiment"; it's in full bloom. I really had no idea this board was so reactionary. Many of you have proposed a compromise solution, by putting plaques and/or other markers in the respective village areas of the park. Had that been the initial proposal I'm sure it would have elicited the same howls of hatred and derision as the name-change proposal. So maybe you've been outsmarted.

Got it. So anyone who doesn't go along with this little bit of revisionist history from the Loopy Left is a reactionary racist. Thanks for clarifying that.

[Overground]

Originally Posted by ozonemania

Why do people always jump on partisan name calling with any issue? What does a Conservative in Ottawa have anything to do with this? Oh god, channel your hatred elsewhere please.

I don't think you've read what I wrote properly. No partisan name calling on my behalf. Partisan name calling would be implying name calling against a specific group. (l)eft is an ambiguous term and isn't affiliated with just one party. But, I see you've decided to take the high road and suggested I'm channelling hatred, LOL. Nice spin dude.

The fact is, some left wing politicians currently and in the past have done a great job at ignoring and denying Canada's history and institutions. The governing Tories in Ottawa however have done a great job in putting pride back into the military, our history, and defending our constitutional monarchy system. The reason why they have something to do with this whole matter is that the federal gov't has to be involved in the process of any name changes to the Park as they are the ones that lease the park to the City. I'd be very surprised if they supported a complete name change to the park.

[trofirhen]

More media reviews on the issue. Interesting, and you can leave a comment and cast a vote on some of them.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/07...ange-proposal/

http://www.miss604.com/2010/07/stanl...-xwayxway.html

http://www.theprovince.com/life/Name...048/story.html

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2010/07/s...me-change.html

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Tou...912/story.html

http://backseatblogger.com/?p=3780

[trofirhen]

... another opinion expressed. IMHO, reasoned, reasonable, and firm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZPGG...eature=related