Attractions and events you'd like to see in Vancouver...a wish list

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

The Convention Centre we got was expensive and not as good.

His was free and was much better.

Bad trade off.

Funny how things change, I remember when that proposal was floated in the 90s, the BC Libs were screaming about blood and drugs in the streets of Vancouver due to gambling and casinos.

I'm not sure Wynn's proposal would have been "much better" than what we got.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Got it. Yeah, that sucks.



I dunno, I found the PNE last summer pretty lame. Or maybe that's me not liking carnivals very much.

Seconding the Granville Island pitch... assuming we can get all the industrial stuff to move out. Is Ocean Concrete even active?

EDIT: Looks like it is. That leaves the warehouse and parking lot beside them.

Well, when you insert a giant man made moat into the middle of your property, tear down a good chunk of you existing infrastructure, those types of things tend to happen.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Well, when you insert a giant man made moat into the middle of your property, tear down a good chunk of you existing infrastructure, those types of things tend to happen.

Things like what? Are you saying the PNE is the result of wanting to maximize the park space in the area?

I feel like you can miss the PNE for 5 years and not really "miss" anything. I go for the nightly concert if there's somebody I want to see, otherwise it's "meh".

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Got it. Yeah, that sucks.



I dunno, I found the PNE last summer pretty lame. Or maybe that's me not liking carnivals very much.

Seconding the Granville Island pitch... assuming we can get all the industrial stuff to move out. Is Ocean Concrete even active?

EDIT: Looks like it is. That leaves the warehouse and parking lot beside them.

Well Ocean does produce a good chunk off the concrete downtown. So I would say its active

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I feel like you can miss the PNE for 5 years and not really "miss" anything. I go for the nightly concert if there's somebody I want to see, otherwise it's "meh".

Yeah, that's my experience. Overall square mileage doesn't mean much if it's just corn dogs stalls and carnival games and the same dozen dinosaur statues.

Ditto the Richmond Night Market: if you need a phone case/knockoff handbag/all-you-can-eat satay dinner/Scientology signup free stress test, you're in luck, otherwise go watch a movie or something instead.

[fredinno]

We need a new Plaza of Nations. I've said it before, but I cannot understand why it wasn't given historical designation to make it impossible to simply tear it down without rebuilding the sections that needed to be fixed.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

We need a new Plaza of Nations. I've said it before, but I cannot understand why it wasn't given historical designation to make it impossible to simply tear it down without rebuilding the sections that needed to be fixed.

Because it was only designed to last ten months; after 20+ years, it was mostly rusted through, and the owners decided a teardown would be the cheapest solution.

I mean sure, it looked pretty, but I don't blame anybody for not wanting to spend money on maintaining an empty, not very significant space. A new (and simpler) one would be nice.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Because it was only designed to last ten months; after 20+ years, it was mostly rusted through, and the owners decided a teardown would be the cheapest solution.

I mean sure, it looked pretty, but I don't blame anybody for not wanting to spend money on maintaining an empty, not very significant space. A new (and simpler) one would be nice.

It's a blight on False Creek. Worse than the current state of NEFC, but only by a little...

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Things like what? Are you saying the PNE is the result of wanting to maximize the park space in the area?

I feel like you can miss the PNE for 5 years and not really "miss" anything. I go for the nightly concert if there's somebody I want to see, otherwise it's "meh".

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

The PNE is not able to play host to certain travelling attractions because they lack the space to host them. They even lost some of their own attractions once the lake was installed. As a result, the PNE went from a money maker to a money loser after the "improvements" (to the tune of about $4million/year that taxpayers foot the bill for that could have gone to other initiatives such as affordable housing, or kids recreational programming). But hey, at least now addicts have somewhere peaceful to shoot heroin, and johns can take prostitutes to a convenient locale to complete transactions.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Funny how things change, I remember when that proposal was floated in the 90s, the BC Libs were screaming about blood and drugs in the streets of Vancouver due to gambling and casinos.

I'm not sure Wynn's proposal would have been "much better" than what we got.

Think of the money laundering opportunities!

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

The PNE is not able to play host to certain travelling attractions because they lack the space to host them. They even lost some of their own attractions once the lake was installed. As a result, the PNE went from a money maker to a money loser after the "improvements" (to the tune of about $4million/year that taxpayers foot the bill for that could have gone to other initiatives such as affordable housing, or kids recreational programming). But hey, at least now addicts have somewhere peaceful to shoot heroin, and johns can take prostitutes to a convenient locale to complete transactions.

Playland makes travelling midways kind of redundant. If you mean Cirque or something like that, they could knock down some room around the Amphitheatre?

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by djh

Going back to the first page of this thread is like digging up a time capsule. Mr. X had some really good ideas in there, and some have actually started to happen (e.g., converting Sears not into just more shops but also into office space, or a new Art Gallery at Larwill Park).

I want a new big plaza/event space, so we can have SK-style winter festivals.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sydney's slated to open a zoo later this year, no protests, so the problem seems to be more about animal welfare than a general anti-captivity sentiment.



It's definitely interesting to see all the suggestions. Wouldn't mind an HMS Discovery replica, especially a working one; film/CGI crews could probably rent it out too.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who'd like a natural history museum; a new cultural amenity that goes with Vancouver's nature theme seems like a win-win, especially given our rich fossil and biodiversity record.

WRT available space, I believe the UBC golf course lease will expire within a decade or two. Perhaps both the zoo and museum could be built there, side by side? There's a lot of educational overlap.

It's supposed to remain a golf course until the 2070s. But yeah, a zoo and museum is infinitely better than the most likely scenario of more condos.

Originally Posted by misher

I suspect the horsetrack is probably on the rocks so it’s a good potential site for a zoo. Alternatively the PNE still has a lot of space.

I wouldn't bet on it.
There's always Stanley Park, anyways, and most of the oil refineries in Vancouver are steadily shutting down. Shellburn Zoo would be a pretty good eventual terminus for a Hastings Subway.

Somewhere next to Burns Bog would be difficult to get to via transit, but is really the ultimate location for wildlife restoration. Ioco/Burrard Generating Station would be a decent compromise if you can snap up the rest of the site soon(and build a Gondola from Burnaby Mtn to there). Pac Spirit is good for transit (like Stanley Park), but it seems way too small as a space to release animals into.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

probably too busy with the dailyhive now

Is he Kenneth Chan?

Originally Posted by cairnstone

We are in a no fun city. Disney wanted to build in surrey on the river flats when all the land was for sale when ralphs went tits up. Winn wanted to be a convention center here before the olympics were awarded. Oh there was the new soccer pitch east of waterfront station. Oh and wait we still cant have open wine or beer in a park yet.

And breeding wolves? There is an open hunt on them as they are destroying the wild game in the interior.

Speaking of game saw 3 deer last night in the bog area by the truck pull out

I'm pretty sure the 'river flats' you're talking about is Burns Bog, which is the largest bog of its sort on this side of the Americas. We already got rid of Sumas Lake, we didn't need to get rid of more wildlife habitat.

I saw 2 deer at the park next to the airport. They're everywhere.

I also live next to a beaver dam/ lodge that the Township tore down because they were destroying all the trees.
Seeing beavers in the real is fascinating.

Originally Posted by djmk

I think a Great Wolf Lodge would do really well in Surrey or Abbotsford.

There were plans to put one in Surrey, but it was pulled out, presumably because of money.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

EDIT: Looks like it is. That leaves the warehouse and parking lot beside them.

The 'warehouse' is the old Emily Carr area Granville Island promised would remain 'institutional'. Don't see the point, but still.

I can't find anything on that original Convention center proposal, so I'm Out of the Loop...

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Because it was only designed to last ten months; after 20+ years, it was mostly rusted through, and the owners decided a teardown would be the cheapest solution.

I mean sure, it looked pretty, but I don't blame anybody for not wanting to spend money on maintaining an empty, not very significant space. A new (and simpler) one would be nice.

That's what I meant by 'replacement'. I know it wasn't supposed to last that long, but the assumption was there'd be a replacement to the covered plaza and performance space, not condo towers. I don't really care for the 'if you replace all the parts, is it still the original' thing. The same happened to Fort Langley- practically none of the stuff there was actually from back in the day.

Also, there's way less significant places City Hall forces to keep for 'historicity' all the time.





The stuff with Hastings Park seems to be proof that there simply isn't enough events/ non- 'green park' public space in Vancouver to begin with.
There's a parking lot behind Pac Colosseum that I don't think there's any plans for.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

The PNE is not able to play host to certain travelling attractions because they lack the space to host them. They even lost some of their own attractions once the lake was installed. As a result, the PNE went from a money maker to a money loser after the "improvements" (to the tune of about $4million/year that taxpayers foot the bill for that could have gone to other initiatives such as affordable housing, or kids recreational programming). But hey, at least now addicts have somewhere peaceful to shoot heroin, and johns can take prostitutes to a convenient locale to complete transactions.

What space do they lack? The attractions that make it to the PNE usually utilize the smaller venues on site. The music happens outdoors, and they do indoor events at everything up to and including the coliseum, which is never at capacity for anything (close for Superdogs!).

The park lost the Canucks, and then the Giants. Both to more appropriate spots IMO. I'm not familiar with the financials, but I think society is largely moving on from what the PNE represents.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I wouldn't bet on it.
There's always Stanley Park, anyways, and most of the oil refineries in Vancouver are steadily shutting down. Shellburn Zoo would be a pretty good eventual terminus for a Hastings Subway.

Somewhere next to Burns Bog would be difficult to get to via transit, but is really the ultimate location for wildlife restoration. Ioco/Burrard Generating Station would be a decent compromise if you can snap up the rest of the site soon(and build a Gondola from Burnaby Mtn to there). Pac Spirit is good for transit (like Stanley Park), but it seems way too small as a space to release animals into.

Stanley Park already had a zoo last century - it got shut down for being too cramped. And I doubt the tree clearance required for proper enclosures will go down well.

Burns Bog meets the space requirements, that's for sure, but suffers from the same accessibility problems that Aldergrove does. Keep in mind that the GVZ is breeding caribou for eventual release near Prince George, so the location is really more about guests than wilderness adjacency.

Originally Posted by fredinno

The 'warehouse' is the old Emily Carr area Granville Island promised would remain 'institutional'. Don't see the point, but still...

... That's what I meant by 'replacement'. I know it wasn't supposed to last that long, but the assumption was there'd be a replacement to the covered plaza and performance space, not condo towers. I don't really care for the 'if you replace all the parts, is it still the original' thing. The same happened to Fort Langley- practically none of the stuff there was actually from back in the day.

Also, there's way less significant places City Hall forces to keep for 'historicity' all the time.

You're right, it's the old Emily Carr building; looks a lot different from a bird's eye view. And Arts Umbrella is moving in... so I guess that unless we want to start evicting houseboats, that idea is dead.

Aristotelian semantics aside, it would be nice to have another covered square. Best bet for that, though, is a roof over Georgia Plaza instead.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Funny how things change, I remember when that proposal was floated in the 90s, the BC Libs were screaming about blood and drugs in the streets of Vancouver due to gambling and casinos.

I'm not sure Wynn's proposal would have been "much better" than what we got.

Oh its much better. Unless you don't like more of stuff in which case it might of been worse. Depends on perspective.

Wynn Proposal: Convention Centre, new marina, extension form Canada Place, 1000 room landmark hotel, International Level Casino. Cost to the public : $0

What we got: Convention Centre. Cost: Roughly $1 Billion.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Playland makes travelling midways kind of redundant. If you mean Cirque or something like that, they could knock down some room around the Amphitheatre?

The attractions I'm talking about have nothing to do with Playland.

They are shows, exhibits, etc. And you can't just "knock down the amphitheater" without something else leaving too. The space is at capacity. They can't add anything new without displacing something else that was already there. Hence the frustration.

CNE, Stampede? They can, and have accommodated growth. Us? Not so much.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

The attractions I'm talking about have nothing to do with Playland.

They are shows, exhibits, etc. And you can't just "knock down the amphitheater" without something else leaving too. The space is at capacity. They can't add anything new without displacing something else that was already there. Hence the frustration.

CNE, Stampede? They can, and have accommodated growth. Us? Not so much.

Only travelling fairs I know of are Cirque and West Coast Amusements; one doesn't require much space, and the other wouldn't work in the PNE anyway.

"Around the Amphitheatre." Namely, the empty lot directly west of it; just need to chop/move the trees. Given the choice between a tentpole attraction and a bunch of food trucks and tents, the choice seems clear.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What space do they lack? The attractions that make it to the PNE usually utilize the smaller venues on site. The music happens outdoors, and they do indoor events at everything up to and including the coliseum, which is never at capacity for anything (close for Superdogs!).

The park lost the Canucks, and then the Giants. Both to more appropriate spots IMO. I'm not familiar with the financials, but I think society is largely moving on from what the PNE represents.

Lots of space actually.
You really need to consider the history of what went on there before compared to what goes on now.

They lost several large buildings that were capable of hosting exhibits and shows of all kinds. (hundreds of thousands of sq ft of useable space).
There are a number of attractions that need indoor space, but that is in short supply at the PNE.

Again, you don't quite understand why a building such as the Coliseum isn't suitable for for the kinds of attractions I'm talking about. You need structures where you can set up and stay for the full duration of the event. Again, if you use the Coliseum for one of those attractions, then the Superdogs need to go elsewhere. And they don't have "elsewhere" to go so you have to choose between attractions. That wasn't the case in the previous incarnation of the site. .

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Only travelling fairs I know of are Cirque and West Coast Amusements; one doesn't require much space, and the other wouldn't work in the PNE anyway.

"Around the Amphitheatre." Namely, the empty lot directly west of it; just need to chop/move the trees. Given the choice between a tentpole attraction and a bunch of food trucks and tents, the choice seems clear.

Oh boy. West Coast Amusements is a ride operator. Not talking about rides. Even though, since you keep bringing it up, they don't bring all of their attractions due to lack of space either, so there's that.

Also, Cirque and West Coast are totally and completely involved in different industries. There are dozens of other companies that operate in each of those industries. But that also has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of facilities at the PNE. (on a side note Cirque was located on the PNE grounds before )

What empty lot? There is no empty lot. Everything is taken.
And you can't just "chop down trees". You know this is Vancouver right? They would never let you chop any tree down. And you can't just get rid of "a bunch of food trucks and tents". I won't get into the finer details of the food and beverage deals that would make that all but an impossibility, but lets just say such a move would be favourable to the overall finances of the site.

And that circles us back to the original point. The site is too small now and its EXTREMELY difficult to add any new attractions, without hurting what you already have

[Migrant_Coconut]

Okay, so exactly what kind of attractions are we missing out on? Genuinely curious.