[Halifax] The Zazz (2254 Barrington) | ? m | 8 fl | U/C

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

If Polycorp wins the case, will there then be a possibility of this development proceeding?

My understanding is that they applied for a permit and it was refused. If they are taking this to court, the court could overturn the refusal and direct HRM to issue the development permit.

On the flip side, if the judge agrees with HRM's position - he/she could order that the land title created from the consolidation be nullified and the original parcel configuration restored (thus disolving the consolidation subdivision and cancelling the new PID number of the now new parcel).

[worldlyhaligonian]

Thanks for the information, I can't see HRM winning this one.

[fenwick16]

According to the allnovascotia.com, the municipality has lost the court case to Polycorp and must pay $148,875 in legal fees to Polycorp.

There is a 30 day appeal period. So Polycorp will wait at least that long prior to proceeding.

(Source: Polycorp Wins Right to Build Jazz by Amy Pugsley Fraser, allnovascotia.com, June 21, 2011 edition - http://www.allnovascotia.com/index.php - a subscription is required for the URL to work).

[halifaxboyns]

I just did a quick check on the NS Court decision page and the full decision hasn't been published yet. Will be an interesting read.

[someone123]

This seems like the only fair outcome in an "everybody loses" type of situation created by the HRM.

I wonder if anybody working for the city will have to answer for this mess. Why are they so difficult? Does anybody who lives around there even care about the parkland?

[Jonovision]

Glad to hear about the decision.

Someone, the site is actually used every sunday afternoon for a group that plays Cricket.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

This seems like the only fair outcome in an "everybody loses" type of situation

I agree with this part of your statement and couldn't put it better. But I don't think it was necessarily all HRM's fault. It sounds like the Provincial Registry made some mistakes in not filing information properly...but regardless, it was a no win situation.

This could've gone either way and HRM (by law) has to protect decisions it makes through permits or development agreements. If it made a decision to require the land for a parks purpose, then something (a bylaw requirement or DA requirement) was being adhered too. There are ways around that, but it wasn't done.

I don't anyone should loose their job, but I do think this is a learning opportunity. Perhaps HRM could've looked at other methods to have gotten the development done, without the need of refusing the DP. But the developer should've been on board to explore those avenues - without knowing what they could've been I'm speculating. Personally, if I became aware of this situation, I'd look into alternatives. Perhaps, if there was a DA involved, the DA could've been discharged (at no or little cost to Polly Corp)? Or if a variance could've been done, then go that route? Court should always be the last option.

The catch with this is that it also assumes the developer would be willing to accept a delay in their approval to get the necessary work done. I can't say if Poly Corp would have been (I have no reason to believe otherwise), but I'm sure others wouldn't. Planning law is complicated - not because planners like it that way, but changing rules makes things that way.

Case in point: I had a guy come in for a permit to renovate an existing 5 unit building. The plans were awful and I instantly got a suspicion something was up, since it was 5 units in a zone that only allowed 2. I pulled the permit history, no record of any lawful units. We did a site inspection - turns out the building had at one time 8 units. Well, the only things I could do for him was to suggest he rezone, or reduce the number of units to 2. I couldn't issue an approval for a use that had no legal standing. He was a very nice man too; I wasn't too happy about that - but I couldn't change the rules.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I agree with this part of your statement and couldn't put it better. But I don't think it was necessarily all HRM's fault. It sounds like the Provincial Registry made some mistakes in not filing information properly...but regardless, it was a no win situation.

The Registry of Deeds was given nothing to register. They made no mistakes. They were not at fault in any way and in fact were also awarded damages from HRM.

HRM had nothing to stand on in this case and their arrogance in not recognizing their own mistakes is now making all of US pay, just as we are paying for Peter Kelly's largesse with directing that money be given to Harold MacKay. Absolutely shameful.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The Registry of Deeds was given nothing to register. They made no mistakes. They were not at fault in any way and in fact were also awarded damages from HRM.

HRM had nothing to stand on in this case and their arrogance in not recognizing their own mistakes is now making all of US pay, just as we are paying for Peter Kelly's largesse with directing that money be given to Harold MacKay. Absolutely shameful.

Really? I thought I read that they had been given something...I guess I'm wrong and stand corrected! Well, regardless, my point is that before they refused the permit they should've done some more digging to be sure. I agree, they appear to have been quick to just refuse the application. Personally, I would've gone and pulled all the title records first, to be sure it wasn't there. If things weren't, then I would've gone to the law department - asked for advice and then made a decision. But that's just me...

[spaustin]

Glad Polycorp can now get on with things. Why HRM chose this hill to die on is beyond me. The site wasn't worth arguing about. It's way better off as an additional condo then a vacant lot that would never ever become a playground or any kind of recreational space. Now HRM's citizens have to bear the cost of this very ill advised lawsuit.... Hopefully HRM will let it rest there. Appealing would only send more good money after bad.

[DigitalNinja]

I hope the city learned their lesson.

I would like to see the reaction from polycorppete, I'm sure he will be along shortly.

[Keith P.]

One can only presume that a high-level HRM legal services person advised them to go this route. Hopefully the costs impact them personally, though we all know that won't happen. The person deserves to lose their job. This is the only possible outcome given the facts and kudos to Polycorp for seeing it through.

Now the Five Guys Named Moe will have years of employment ahead! I look forward to seeing this complete sometime in the next 20 years.

[Dmajackson]

So here's an interesting question. If the city spent thousands of dollars on lawyers to protect vacant land on Barrington Street from development because it believed there should be a playground there why does it let prime recreation space downtown turn into a parking lot?

[Jstaleness]

Not trying to bump this tread or anything but just had a thought. I know that there is a current land dispute here. I wonder if Pete should re-apply for this one and try and go for something larger. I use this ship building thing way to much I know but I think there would be strong demand for housing in this area once the process begins. I didn't check the restrictions on height so maybe it's already maxed but this would be a sweet spot for a tower of sorts. It would be a quick ride on the 9 bus to get from there to the Shipyards.

My point only stands of course if the land issue/zoning issue is resolved of course.

Just some thoughts from my head of boredom this afternoon.

[someone123]

The dispute with the city is resolved to the extent that the court has ordered them to issue a permit for this development. I think it's therefore ready to go ahead. There was an article a while back in ANS where I believe Peter Polley said that Polycorp has already moved on to other projects, so Jazz will be built after those are complete.

Sounds like the big question still to be resolved is how much the city will have to pay to Polycorp to make up for their mistake and behaviour. It's only fair for Polycorp to get some money, although I'm not sure the money alone would have any impact on the HRM bureaucracy. One would hope that one or more people would get in trouble for this but I'm not sure that's how the city works...

[halifaxboyns]

When a Development Permit is approved (either through a court process like this or through the typical process) there is nothing that stops the applicant from coming back to apply for a new permit to go bigger. The only issue would be whether the bigger building would fit the angle controls, more parking would be required and it meeting the rules.

I suspect that after all this, there would be little to no desire to go through the process again for a bigger building not that Mr. Poley might not get approved (I don't think HRM would come along and force the issue into court again by refusing a new permit for a bigger building on the same grounds again), but it just might be 'it took me long enough to get this' kind of perspective.

[Keith P.]

I wonder what the Moes have been doing to pass the time during the delay? Painting a window frame? Hanging a door? Installing a cabinet pull?

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I wonder what the Moes have been doing to pass the tim3e during the delay? Painting a window frame? Hanging a door? Installing a cabinet pull?

I was listening to weekend morning on CBC radio a couple of weeks ago. Stan Carue played a song by a group called '5 guys named Moe'. I nearly fell out of bed laughing!

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

I was listening to weekend morning on CBC radio a couple of weeks ago. Stan Carue played a song by a group called '5 guys named Moe'. I nearly fell out of bed laughing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EaUqLrfEMU

Did they sound like this?

[Dmajackson]

According to an a statement by Peter Polly of Polycorp developments this project has been delayed and construction will not begin for another 2+ years. The company is currently working on "The Q Lofts" on Roberts Street and will start construction on the Long Lake Village condo buildings within 18 months.

BTW I switched the title to match the rest of the subforum but I don't have any information on height or floor count. If anyone has this it would be greatly appreciated.

References: Chronicle Herald Article - "Change Builds In North End" (07/10/2013)