Gladstone Village [933 Gladstone Ave/1010 Somerset St] | ?m | up to 30f | U/C

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by Harley613

More Park. Less Traffic. Less Shadows. Less Height. Less Wind. 'I don't want that built next to me unless it is affordable housing, we're in a crisis. Oh really, It's all affordable housing? Well I don't want that built next to me because muh property values'

People in Ottawa are like pull string dolls, they only have 5-6 lines of opposition to literally everything.

Shadows killing tomato plants is a new one to the mix.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

People are incapable of understanding that Plouffe Park will be more than compensated for with the new park closer to the train tracks. It's a net gain.

I do think that one of the coolest things about Plouffe Park is that it is right on Preston and people can watch the soccer/hockey. I’d rather see it stay in that location, as it’s kind of unique

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

Shadows killing tomato plants is a new one to the mix.

Tomato plants kill the shadows? Well there's your solution!

Originally Posted by phil235

I do think that one of the coolest things about Plouffe Park is that it is right on Preston and people can watch the soccer/hockey. I’d rather see it stay in that location, as it’s kind of unique

There's actually a good argument in favour of keeping it where it is. The issue is that most opposition has no such reasoning.

You could turn it around though and say people using the Trillium path and train will be able to see the soccer matches.

At the moment, much of Plouffe Park's Preston frontage is a 12 foot fence. Not exactly inviting. Having the school front Preston might create a better street presence.

I would like to know the City's reasoning for the configuration of the proposed site.

[Spoonsy]

the nimbys have deployed signs


https://i.imgur.com/VFw6YZC.jpg

qr code links to this letter, text below: https://qrco.de/beBBlP

PROPOSAL TO BUILD OVER PLOUFFE PARK

Summary
Recreation and Real Estate staff at the City of Ottawa are proposing major changes to Plouffe Park , the Plant Recreation Centre, and the lands at 1010 Somerset St. West. These changes include building over most of Plouffe park. These plans were developed without community input and are contrary to the City of Ottawa Official Plan for the neighbourhood.

Background
Starting in 2014, local residents, business owners, land owners, developers, and City staff worked together over seven years to develop the Corso Italia Station District Secondary Plan (CISDSP), balancing the needs and interests of all parties. In February 2021, City Council approved the plan to implement the
agreed vision. This plan sets out to maintain Plouffe Park and add more than one hectare of additional park space in the adjoining 1010 Somerset Lands when it is developed. City staff are now proposing a different plan that does not follow the Official Plan; eliminates Plouffe Park almost immediately; does not provide an additional full one hectare of green space in the 1010 Somerset Lands; and then possibly only 7-10 years in the future.

Critical Issues
● The current concept design issued by the city staff would see most of Plouffe Park paved over for
new buildings and a road; contrary to the Official Plan.
● The plan would see Plouffe Park closed for new construction as early as 2024, without any
replacement park space opening until at least 2030.
● This neighbourhood is slated to see more than 25,000 new residents in the next 10 years.
● This neighbourhood already has the lowest per capita park space in the entire city.
● The survey created by City staff makes no mention that Plouffe Park would be paved over and limits space for real feedback from the community.
Please Take time to go to the Engage Ottawa survey for 1010 Somerset Lands and fill out the form using any space available to express your concerns about any plan which does not follow city plans and policy to preserve all our existing park space.

This information has been prepared by P4X a coalition of 5 community organizations:
Plant Pool Recreation Association;
Dalhousie Community Association;
Hintonburg Community Association;
Recreation Association of Hintonburg;
Somerset West Community Health Centre.

July, 17, 2023

[Louis-Riel]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

the nimbys have deployed signs


https://i.imgur.com/VFw6YZC.jpg

qr code links to this letter, text below: https://qrco.de/beBBlP

PROPOSAL TO BUILD OVER PLOUFFE PARK

Summary
Recreation and Real Estate staff at the City of Ottawa are proposing major changes to Plouffe Park , the Plant Recreation Centre, and the lands at 1010 Somerset St. West. These changes include building over most of Plouffe park. These plans were developed without community input and are contrary to the City of Ottawa Official Plan for the neighbourhood.

Background
Starting in 2014, local residents, business owners, land owners, developers, and City staff worked together over seven years to develop the Corso Italia Station District Secondary Plan (CISDSP), balancing the needs and interests of all parties. In February 2021, City Council approved the plan to implement the
agreed vision. This plan sets out to maintain Plouffe Park and add more than one hectare of additional park space in the adjoining 1010 Somerset Lands when it is developed. City staff are now proposing a different plan that does not follow the Official Plan; eliminates Plouffe Park almost immediately; does not provide an additional full one hectare of green space in the 1010 Somerset Lands; and then possibly only 7-10 years in the future.

Critical Issues
● The current concept design issued by the city staff would see most of Plouffe Park paved over for
new buildings and a road; contrary to the Official Plan.
● The plan would see Plouffe Park closed for new construction as early as 2024, without any
replacement park space opening until at least 2030.
● This neighbourhood is slated to see more than 25,000 new residents in the next 10 years.
● This neighbourhood already has the lowest per capita park space in the entire city.
● The survey created by City staff makes no mention that Plouffe Park would be paved over and limits space for real feedback from the community.
Please Take time to go to the Engage Ottawa survey for 1010 Somerset Lands and fill out the form using any space available to express your concerns about any plan which does not follow city plans and policy to preserve all our existing park space.

This information has been prepared by P4X a coalition of 5 community organizations:
Plant Pool Recreation Association;
Dalhousie Community Association;
Hintonburg Community Association;
Recreation Association of Hintonburg;
Somerset West Community Health Centre.

July, 17, 2023

They'll claim that they do not oppose the construction of the school, but the reality is that stalling construction (which they absolutely want) will kill the project. I suggested to P4X that they put pressure on ODCSB to cede Cambridge Street Public School (which is basically empty) to the CEPEO - which has the added advantage of saving taxpayer dollars for everyone and getting a francophone school that is up to standard. Louise Arbour, the temporary school in the area, is in catastrophically bad shape (asbestos, lead in the water, doesn't pass fire inspections). Heard nothing back.

But yeah, they're not against building a school.

[SkeggsEggs]

If the park is removed without the replacement ready that would definitely be a shitty for the local residents. I get the frustration!

[yotajoe]

Might have to go for a walk and remove the NIMBY signs lol

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by yotajoe

Might have to go for a walk and remove the NIMBY signs lol

Place it a picture of it on their community page before recycling that garbage sign lol. What a waste of resources

[J.OT13]

Ok, sure, the new park should maybe be built before the old park is taken out. That would be a reasonable argument, but the way they sell it, Plouffe will be removed and maybe be replaces with a lesser space.

And "paved over for new buildings and a road; contrary to the Official Plan"? It's a francophone elementary school, with school yard and a bus drop-off. Do they prefer buses drop the kids on three street? Do they have something against francophones? Pretty sure local schools are a big part of the official plan and concept of 15 minute neighbourhoods.

[originalmuffins]

I love how illogical they are. This is literally an affordable housing project on a massive scale that will provide many units to those who will need it.... like how NIMBY are you going to be when you're even trying to stir up shit for an OCH development. They can live without their grass patch park for a little while because one this is completed, it will add way more to the area and to people looking for a place to live than that grass patch will ever do.

[Spoonsy]

bemoaning the loss of two swampy sports pitches that were closed for like the last two months for "turf rehabilitation" anyway. you can kick a ball to alternate sports fields at adult high school or tom brown or two kicks to laroche

i guess you'd also lose the basketball court which has the worst asphalt in the area anyway, better courts on Elm St and Ev Tremblay

the splash pad and playground adjacent to Plant look unaffected

golden opportunity to elevate two sports pitches from stormwater pond crap status to elite and these non-representative community associations are going to screw it up for the neighbourhood

somebody make it make sense

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

I love how illogical they are. This is literally an affordable housing project on a massive scale that will provide many units to those who will need it.... like how NIMBY are you going to be when you're even trying to stir up shit for an OCH development. They can live without their grass patch park for a little while because one this is completed, it will add way more to the area and to people looking for a place to live than that grass patch will ever do.

It's more than a patch of grass, unlike Queen Julianna, which is literally a patch of grass. It's two soccer fields and a basketball court. In a community with a high level of residents of Italian heritage, I imagine the soccer fields are used quite often (hence why the area has three, with the Adult High School).

I would understand if the community demanded the new fields be built before construction of the school starts. That would be reasonable. But the opposition seems all over the place and without clear direction.

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

bemoaning the loss of two swampy sports pitches that were closed for like the last two months for "turf rehabilitation" anyway. you can kick a ball to alternate sports fields at adult high school or tom brown or two kicks to laroche

i guess you'd also lose the basketball court which has the worst asphalt in the area anyway, better courts on Elm St and Ev Tremblay

the splash pad and playground adjacent to Plant look unaffected

golden opportunity to elevate two sports pitches from stormwater pond crap status to elite and these non-representative community associations are going to screw it up for the neighbourhood

somebody make it make sense

I'm guessing the field at the Adult High can handle the demand on its own. Tom Brown doesn't have a proper soccer field for organized sports. Laroche is getting kind of far, a 20 minute walk.

For basketball. Elm is 5 minutes, so not too bad, but again, availability. Not sure where Tremblay is (other than VIA Rail area Tremblay).

For sure, it's a good opportunity to build better facilities.

Again, I understand if they would want these new fields built first, but their opposition seems too unfocused for such a simple conclusion.

[Harley613]

I don't know Plouffe Park. This whole thread I was assuming it was some kind of urban oasis in the middle of Little Italy. I just checked on google maps....this whole situation is about a couple of downtrodden soccer fields?!?? How many of the NIMBYs in the neighbourhood even use those fields? People usually travel around the city to play. This is ridiculous. 'Don't take away something we don't use for ten years so that we can get some of the best sports and recreation facilities in the city in our neighbourhood, we want to see people playing soccer as we walk by! wahhhhh!!! BANANA!'

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I don't know Plouffe Park. This whole thread I was assuming it was some kind of urban oasis in the middle of Little Italy. I just checked on google maps....this whole situation is about a couple of downtrodden soccer fields?!?? How many of the NIMBYs in the neighbourhood even use those fields? People usually travel around the city to play. This is ridiculous. 'Don't take away something we don't use for ten years so that we can get some of the best sports and recreation facilities in the city in our neighbourhood, we want to see people playing soccer as we walk by! wahhhhh!!! BANANA!'

I find this kind of comment to be equally extreme to the NIMBY comments. I think we established that the park is used, and how exactly is it “downtrodden”?

Anyone supporting intensification should also be supporting amenities like neighbourhood parks. Otherwise intensification doesn’t work. I don’t know that this is actually going to be out of commission for 7 years, but if so that is too long for a neighbourhood that is going to have several thousand new residents

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by phil235

I find this kind of comment to be equally extreme to the NIMBY comments. I think we established that the park is used, and how exactly is it “downtrodden”?

Anyone supporting intensification should also be supporting amenities like neighbourhood parks. Otherwise intensification doesn’t work. I don’t know that this is actually going to be out of commission for 7 years, but if so that is too long for a neighbourhood that is going to have several thousand new residents

Supporting intensification means supporting increasing the park size not fighting to keep it the same. If the school has to be moved to another part of the site it means longer access roads for Bus drop off space. or was the idea that the school not be built at this site at all? in which case fine that does leave alot of room for more towers & housing....

The greenspace will increase by ~170% (not counting the greenspace in Village area), with the park itself increasing by ~116%.

The locals could be as easily fighting to get guarantees that the old park isn't closed until the new park is opened but as others have eluded to, there goal is likely just to stop the dev in its entirety...you know BANANAS.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by phil235

I find this kind of comment to be equally extreme to the NIMBY comments. I think we established that the park is used, and how exactly is it “downtrodden”?

Anyone supporting intensification should also be supporting amenities like neighbourhood parks. Otherwise intensification doesn’t work. I don’t know that this is actually going to be out of commission for 7 years, but if so that is too long for a neighbourhood that is going to have several thousand new residents

Downtrodden was an extreme word. Maybe it was just a dry day when the aerial was taken for google maps. My apologies for that. I was just expecting a far more valuable green space than a couple of soccer fields considering all the hubbub. There is an immense amount of non sport greens space within easy walking distance. If I was a resident of the neighbourhood I would gladly sacrifice two soccer fields for a few years to gain the incredible facilities that are planned for my neighbourhood.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Downtrodden was an extreme word. Maybe it was just a dry day when the aerial was taken for google maps. My apologies for that. I was just expecting a far more valuable green space than a couple of soccer fields considering all the hubbub. There is an immense amount of non sport greens space within easy walking distance. If I was a resident of the neighbourhood I would gladly sacrifice two soccer fields for a few years to gain the incredible facilities that are planned for my neighbourhood.

I would also make that sacrifice without thinking twice. You may be right that the complaints about the park are being used as an excuse to obstruct the whole project. That was definitely a tactic used by the “Friends of Lansdowne”. I just think the city needs to work harder at ensuring that an alternative is available during construction, as the initial plans did not involve closing that park. The default shouldn’t just be that the park is closed for 7 years on the promise of a better park then (if things progress on schedule).

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by phil235

I would also make that sacrifice without thinking twice. You may be right that the complaints about the park are being used as an excuse to obstruct the whole project. That was definitely a tactic used by the “Friends of Lansdowne”. I just think the city needs to work harder at ensuring that an alternative is available during construction, as the initial plans did not involve closing that park. The default shouldn’t just be that the park is closed for 7 years on the promise of a better park then (if things progress on schedule).

Yup, there's that too. City can promise a timeline (reasonable or not) but then blow it by years, even decades. Carling bus lanes, Baseline BRT, William Commanda Bridge, all were supposed to be done far earlier. Two of those haven't even started.

I can't think of any situation quite like this in Ottawa, but we've seen that in Gatineau, like closing the Fonderie that had soccer fields for an innovation centre that never happened. There is still no replacement for that space.

Hoping the City can listen to feedback, block out the NIMBYism and implement the sensible requests, like completing the new park before Plouffe is built over. We're talking soccer fields and basket ball courts here. Can't be that expensive or difficult to build.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by phil235

I find this kind of comment to be equally extreme to the NIMBY comments. I think we established that the park is used, and how exactly is it “downtrodden”?

Anyone supporting intensification should also be supporting amenities like neighbourhood parks. Otherwise intensification doesn’t work. I don’t know that this is actually going to be out of commission for 7 years, but if so that is too long for a neighbourhood that is going to have several thousand new residents

The grass at the soccer pitch is non-existent based on my casual observations. Likely because it's so well used. The pitch by my house is a lush environment in comparison and its also well used. This seems like a good problem that could be rectified with better maintenance and expanded facilities.

The park right now isn't anything special as it stands.

[OTSkyline]

There seems to be an even larger soccer field behind the Adult High School (at Gladstone and Preston) a few blocks away.

Could that soccer field not be spruced up and offered as a temp replacement while the redevelopment is going on? It's a 350m walk.