Hamilton's Weather

[urban_planner]

ok so it was a twice in a life time storm regardless, to blame the parkway is just silly although the idea of a highway making a flood sounds like an interesting sci-fi movie. Or maybe we should invest in some industrial sized bounty, its the quicker picker upper.

Like I said this flood change Albion falls and that's before the water from Buttermilk falls Glendale falls and Felker's falls empties into the Red Hill creek which happens at the king St Interchange.

Seriously I know everyone really wants to say i told you so about the parkway but know your facts. Not just oh there a flood maybe someone flushed there toilet.

I love climate change. Can't wait for another 25 years for the next time the Red hill Valley Parkway needs to Cry.

[BrianE]

As someone who works in the hydraulic modeling business I can say that Hamtransit is bang on in his explanation of design storms and flooding events.

I was going to add my 2 cents but it's all been covered by Hamtransit. Good Job.

[drpgq]

Is Albion Falls really that different now? Unfortunately I left Hamilton on the Sunday for a while. otherwise I would go check it out myself.

[urban_planner]

Originally Posted by drpgq

Is Albion Falls really that different now? Unfortunately I left Hamilton on the Sunday for a while. otherwise I would go check it out myself.

I assume you know it fairly well so I won't post a link for a before shot but here is a shot I took of the after.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/gods_eyes/3764337716/

let me know what you think!

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by urban_planner

I assume you know it fairly well so I won't post a link for a before shot but here is a shot I took of the after.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/gods_eyes/3764337716/

let me know what you think!

Thanks a lot for the photo link. I always like checking out Albion during the spring thaw, so I'm annoyed I have to miss this.

[realcity]

There was a similar flash flood in 1995. I guess we've been explained by transitguy how the math works. and i enjoyed that... thanks. Basically this will happen again and we won't be waiting a lifetime either.

Does anyone think this flooding -- being worse in the east end -- had anything to do with all the new sprawl development above the RedHill, the Centennial and 53, Paramount and Mud areas.?

[urban_planner]

Originally Posted by realcity

There was a similar flash flood in 1995. I guess we've been explained by transitguy how the math works. and i enjoyed that... thanks. Basically this will happen again and we won't be waiting a lifetime either.

Does anyone think this flooding -- being worse in the east end -- had anything to do with all the new sprawl development above the RedHill, the Centennial and 53, Paramount and Mud areas.?

Ya partially anyway. there has been alot of development up there. some of it has storm water retention ponds (which probably filled up) however like I had said earlier most of the east mountian drains into the red hill creek behind the old ottawa st dump is the out fall of this major storm sewer then it flow through a creek and into the red hill creek around the dartnall interchange.

The hearitage green area drains into Montgomery creek which flows into davis creek which flows into Red Hill around the King St Interchange.

and further east the drains into Davis Creek which as I said above flows into Redhill.

This is what caused so much flooding, All the water going into one creek.

[SteelTown]

Brace yourself for even more rain......

Rain, rain go away
High winds, heavy rain, hail possible Thursday

July 29, 2009
Dana Brown
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/608761

Mother Nature is set to rain on Hamilton's parade today.

And tomorrow may be even worse.

The Weather Network is predicting 1-3mm of rain Wednesday morning, followed by another 5-10mm in the afternoon.

During the evening, another smattering of 1-3mm could fall before it stops briefly.

Thursday, Environment Canada is saying isolated, non-severe thunderstorms are possible over southwestern Ontario.

That could include wind gusts of 90 km/h or more, rain of more than 50 mm in one hour, or less than 75 mm in three hours, and hail that is 2 cm in diameter or more. Environment Canada also cautions about the possibility of tornadoes.

No specific weather warnings have been issued for the Hamilton area.

the city is already exhausted from dealing with the massive flooding caused by last weekend’s storms, especially Sunday’s massive downpour.

More than 110 mm of rain fell in Stoney Creek. East-end residents were particularly hard hit by flooding, with many dealing with sewage back ups in their basement.

Going into the August long weekend, we’ll have to contend with an 80 per cent chance of rain on Friday.

It’s expected Saturday will be sunny, but on Sunday the rain may hit again, with a 40 per cent chance of rain and a chance of thunderstorms. Monday is so far a mixed bag.

The Environment Canada record for most precipitation on this day is 49mm, which fell in 1983.

[SteelTown]

You gotta watch this youtube clip, awesome

• Video Link

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

You gotta watch this youtube clip, awesome

Years ago, I took my son to see Robert Munsch at Hamilton Place. For the intro, Boris Brott did this with the audience - it was amazing.

[urban_planner]

July 30, 2009
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jul 30, 2009)
RAINFALL TOTALS WERE 'MORE THAN A HURRICANE'

The deluge in east Hamilton Sunday was "a gully-washer of major proportions," in the words of Environment Canada senior climatologist David Phillips.

The 109.1 millimetres measured in 212 hours by the Hamilton Conservation Authority on Queenston Road near Lake Avenue was "more than you'd get in a hurricane," Phillips said yesterday.

The total captured by that rain gauge was 111.7 mm for the day.

The record one-day rainfall at John C. Munro Hamilton International Airport is 107 mm on July 26, 1989. The most recorded there in one hour was 77 mm.

Cypress Lake on the Bruce Peninsula saw 112 mm in an hour in August 2003, and Sarnia 90 mm in July 1991, so Phillips classes the Hamilton storm as "a real gusher."

Brampton saw 31.8 mm fall one day in hurricane Hazel, then 178.3 mm the next, for a total of 210 mm, but "109 mm in two hours would swamp that," according to Phillips, Canada's best-known weather expert.

The world's record rain champion is Hawaii, where 305 mm once fell in an hour.

By yesterday afternoon, nearly 1,850 people had registered with the City of Hamilton's damage claims hotline -- 905-667-3157 -- because of flooding and there is no sign of claims slowing down, said Rob Rossini, general manager of finance and corporate services.

QEW CLOSURE BLAMED ON THREE-DAYS RAIN STREAK

Ontario's Ministry of Transportation, looking into why flooding closed the Queen Elizabeth Way in east Hamilton Sunday, has concluded that day's rain was worse than a 100-year storm (one with a 1 per cent probability of occurring in any single year).

It was made worse because it fell on soil super-saturated by storms Friday and Saturday.

Spokesperson Will Mackenzie said all lanes were closed for about an hour between Burlington Street and the Red Hill Valley Parkway, which was also flooded, keeping the interchange ramps closed until 2 a.m. Monday.

Flooding also resulted in a partial QEW closure in mid-June. Mackenzie says paving work prevented rainwater from reaching the storm sewer grates that day.

He notes that the QEW has a history of flooding where it runs between Lake Ontario and Red Hill Creek, but storm sewers and culverts have been sized up to reduce risk, and the parkway ramp raised to protect the highway from a 100-year flood.

The Hamilton Conservation Authority measured more than 111 mm of rain -- almost all within two hours -- near Queenston Road and Lake Avenue Sunday. Mackenzie says hurricane Hazel dumped 120 mm over a longer time in 1954. A storm on Aug. 30, 1981, dropped 67 mm and one Aug. 24, 1982, deposited 93.8 mm.

ACTIVIST QUESTIONS EFFECT OF MOUNTAIN URBANIZATION

Lynda Lukasik, executive director of Environment Hamilton, wonders why her home and others on the street near Eastgate Mall flooded Sunday for the first time since they were built in the 1960s and 1970s.

Was the storm the worst in all those years, have there been changes in the sewer system or is new development, especially on the Mountain, sending more runoff into older parts of the lower city?

"It's a highly urbanized valley. Now we've built more up top and I'm sitting at the bottom. The cynical me wonders if we've mucked up the flow regime.

Lukasik said a good start would be requiring that all downspouts be disconnected from the sewer system.


So i guess it was in fact worse then Hazel. So much my only a 50 year storm (based off previous Dicussions)

I guess it wasn't a typical summer storm like originally was quoted as being said, Hmm I wonder what gave that away.

[markbarbera]

Lukasik kinda contradicts herself here. First, she suggests runoff from new development on the mountain as a contributory factor to the flooding, then speculates that this sewage overflow issue can be remedied partly by requiring downspouts to be disconnected from the sewar system. Sounds good, except for the fact that these dreaded new residential developments on the mountain are already disconnected from the sewar system, and new residential developments have not been connected to the sewar system for quite some time now (upwards of 20 years). It is actually the older homes built up until the sixties and seventies that had downspouts connected directly to the sewars.

If she is wondering why homes in her Eastgate neighbourhood flooded for the first time since their construction in the 60's, perhaps it has something to do with the fact that it hasn't ever rained that heavily in such a short period of time since well before the 60's...

[highwater]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Lukasik kinda contradicts herself here.

I don't see the contradiction, myself. The impact that unchecked mountain development has on flooding has more to do with the fact that there is less and less open ground to absorb the rainwater, than whether the houses are connected to the sewers or not.

[drpgq]

I am with Bratina on this, although I would probably go a bit farther.

As a renter, I wonder about the socialization of risk for house owners. Why should the entire city be responsible? You buy a house, things can happen.

Walkout pulls plug on flood aid

Bratina, Ferguson oppose "blank cheque" to victims
July 31, 2009
Nicole Macintyre
(Jul 31, 2009)

Three councillors walked out of an emergency meeting yesterday, preventing approval of an aid program for flood victims that they argued would have been like "writing a blank cheque."

The majority of councillors present were poised to pass a motion by Councillor Chad Collins for the city to pick up the tab for all flood damage not covered by insurance. Staff warned against the proposal, arguing it could cost the city unknown millions, invite insurance companies to reject claims and set a precedent.

When a short recess was called before the vote, Councillors Maria Pearson, Lloyd Ferguson and Bob Bratina, who opposed approving the upgraded grants program without more information, left. Their departure caused the meeting to be cancelled because it lost quorum. Nine members must be present to make decisions.

"They did it deliberately," said Councillor Brad Clark, calling their actions "irresponsible."

Bratina and Ferguson later used the same term for those who wanted to pass the program without knowing the consequences.

"What they did was ridiculous," said Bratina, adding he can't support writing a "blank cheque."

The city clerk is trying to reschedule the meeting. Council only has 14 working days from the flood to approve applying for disaster aid from the province.

Yesterday's delay outraged residents who came to watch the meeting. Collins argued flood victims want the city to take immediate action and can't wait weeks for the city to study his proposal. Council voted 7-4 against a one week delay to allow staff to report back.

After the referral failed, Bratina and Ferguson said they wouldn't be put in the position of voting against flood aid when their concern was passing the program blindly.

"I thought it was reckless," said Ferguson. "I just think we need a cooling off period."

Pearson said she left because of a "family emergency" and did not know the other councillors were leaving.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger, who spoke against Collins' proposal, said he didn't advise the councillors to leave but noted their decision will give staff more time to analyse the proposal.

"Sometimes politics is a game of chess," said Eisenberger.

The political move "flies in the face of what the democratic process is about," said Collins.

Councillor Sam Merulla went further, suggesting those who left don't care about the flood victims.

The emergency meeting was called to approve a compassionate grant program after last Sunday's heavy rain and flooding.

Staff recommended increasing the grant from $750 to $1,000. Residents who had been denied sewer backup insurance because of multiple floods would be offered more aid. Staff wanted to report back on the amount, but based cost estimates on $5,000.

The city was expecting the program would cost upwards of $6 million based on 4,000 to 5,000 claims.

Collins wants to upgrade the program to help homeowners with all uninsured loses. His proposal would cover residents who couldn't get insurance because of past floods and pay for all damages and lost personal property, including vehicles, not covered by an insurer.

The program would also cover non-sewer flooding that is not covered by insurance, such as surface flooding. It would not apply to residents who choose not to buy insurance.

He estimated the program could cost the city $10 million to $20 million, though staff said they don't know the cost. Collins said the city should take projects out of its capital plan to pay for the grants.

"This is a priority," he said, arguing the city has to help residents get back to the same position they were in before the storm hit. "It's a disaster and people are asking for help."

His proposal would cover areas where the city has identified sewer problems as well as areas where staff believe it was only the volume of rain that caused flooding.

Councillor Terry Whitehead put forward a motion to offer the same payout for the 10 floods council has deemed disasters since 2005.

Eisenberger said he had concerns the unlimited grant program would be "opening the vault."

"We need to help, the question is to what degree."

Pearson argued council had to balance the interests of flood victims with all taxpayers.

"This isn't the last time we're going to get flooded," she noted.

But Merulla argued the city has a "moral obligation" to over the damages.

[email protected]

905-526-3299

ATTENDANCE

Attendance at yesterday's emergency meeting

Absent for the whole meeting:

Brian McHattie: vacation

David Mitchell: vacation

Margaret McCarthy: city business

Left meeting before Collins' motion:

Russ Powers: family commitment

Robert Pasuta: ill

Left after the motion and before vote:

Maria Pearson

Lloyd Ferguson

Bob Bratina

Remaining at the end

Fred Eisenberger

Bernie Morelli

Sam Merulla

Chad Collins

Tom Jackson

Scott Duvall

Terry Whitehead

Brad Clark

City flood claims hotline: 905-667-3157

Total flood claims as of 4 p.m. yesterday: 2,933

[adam]

If nobody will sell you house insurance for a property, you are basically agreeing to all associated risks with owning that property. Or do people think that other tax payers should be on the hook?

[LikeHamilton]

Originally Posted by adam

If nobody will sell you house insurance for a property, you are basically agreeing to all associated risks with owning that property. Or do people think that other tax payers should be on the hook?

It is not that they will not sell you insurance, they will not sell you flood insurance. You can get full insurance on everything else for a flood prone house; just don’t claim anything for flooding.
One person interviewed on TV as he ripped out carpets from his basement stated it was his 6th time being flooded out. Duh! What part of you don’t finish the pool do you not get! Why should the city pay because he is to stupid to figure out that you do not finish a flood prone basement or he needs to spend more money on flood proofing his basement before finishing it?

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

It is not that they will not sell you insurance, they will not sell you flood insurance. You can get full insurance on everything else for a flood prone house; just don’t claim anything for flooding.
One person interviewed on TV as he ripped out carpets from his basement stated it was his 6th time being flooded out. Duh! What part of you don’t finish the pool do you not get! Why should the city pay because he is to stupid to figure out that you do not finish a flood prone basement or he needs to spend more money on flood proofing his basement before finishing it?

This person should not have a flood-prone basement. He should have the right to place whatever he wants in his basement without fear of municipal sewage entering his home. As far as I know, there is no such thing as a flood-proof basement.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by BCTed

This person should not have a flood-prone basement. He should have the right to place whatever he wants in his basement without fear of municipal sewage entering his home. As far as I know, there is no such thing as a flood-proof basement.

I agree we should demand the city have sufficient infrastructure to prevent flooding.

Though I also think those who have suffered from repeated flooding should also be required to have reverse flow valves installed. The city offers interest free loans paid through property taxes for lead pipe replacement. Why not offer something similar to all those who've received flood payments from the city?

I realize they are not 100% effective (not much in life is), but I think having these installed would significantly lower flooding. Then if there's flooding again, and the house does not have a valve that person is on their own.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by adam

If nobody will sell you house insurance for a property, you are basically agreeing to all associated risks with owning that property. Or do people think that other tax payers should be on the hook?

And what if nobody will sell you insurance because of repeated flooding over a number of years? What if you have been dutifully paying your taxes and expecting appropriate sewer service, but are now left holding the bag because of the city's demonstrated prolonged negligence?

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by BCTed

And what if nobody will sell you insurance because of repeated flooding over a number of years? What if you have been dutifully paying your taxes and expecting appropriate sewer service, but are now left holding the bag because of the city's demonstrated prolonged negligence?

I'm perfectly fine with that. Any number of things could happen that could hinder the value a real estate investment has. If you can't stand the risk, don't buy.