HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Downtown & City of Ottawa


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #81  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 1:59 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 69,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucolic Urbanity View Post
I think the baseball strike turned off people a lot.
Certainly, the 1994 baseball labour disruption did tremendous damage to the sport in the area I know best: Eastern Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada. This is the area where the Expos were the most popular or one of the most popular teams. The general feeling was that things were fixed and the season was cancelled because the big bosses of baseball didn’t want to see the Expos win the World Series. Now, I don’t think there’s any truth at all to this, but perception is reality…

So this was pretty much the death-knell for baseball as a mainstream sport in this part of the world, given that in most people’s eyes it was “imported” to begin with, and wasn’t part of the people’s DNA like hockey is. Americans will always forgive baseball for its many scandals and problems, and have returned to ballparks in droves in recent years. The sport is actually very healthy stateside.

I guess what happened to baseball here is similar to the damage inflicted by the NHL lockout on hockey in many areas of the U.S., as opposed to the huge interest in Canada where the fans came back immediately and have stayed with the sport.

Baseball has also totally missed the boat on the international marketing side, certainly when compared to soccer. Baseball has never been able to branch out from its base in the U.S. and offshoots in Japan and a handful of places in Latin America like Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. As we have said, it is actually regressing alarmingly fast in the vital next-door market like Canada where it had made pretty good progress throughout much of the 20th century.
     
     
  #82  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 2:08 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 69,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mille Sabords View Post
In this morning's Citizen. If they open a season-ticket reservation waiting list I'm signing up!!
------------------------------------

Melnyk to take kick at MLS
Hugh Adami
The Ottawa Citizen
Friday, June 20, 2008


If the city wants another reason for a major overhaul of Frank Clair Stadium besides a new CFL team, how about a Major League Soccer franchise owned by Eugene Melnyk?

The owner of the Ottawa Senators is exploring the possibility of acquiring an MLS club. But he is in a long queue that includes some U.S. cities on top of Montreal and Vancouver. Montreal already has a new stadium and one is in the works in Vancouver -- both having the primary purpose of luring the MLS, the highest level of professional soccer in North America.

Toronto FC, in its second season, is the only Canadian franchise in the league.

The CFL has awarded a group of Ottawa businessmen -- Roger Greenberg, Bill Shenkman, John Ruddy and Ottawa 67's owner Jeff Hunt -- a conditional franchise that could begin play in 2010 if a revamped stadium is ready.

Meanwhile, Melnyk, who met with MLS president Mark Abbott last week in Toronto, is eyeing 2010 as the inaugural season for an MLS team here. That scenario may be too ambitious, though, as the 14-team league expects to grow to 18 by 2012, and has already awarded franchises to Seattle for 2009 and Philadelphia for 2010.

MLS spokesman Dan Courtemanche would not say where Ottawa stands in its chances of landing a franchise or even if the city is on the league's radar.

However, Courtemanche said the league is constantly reviewing expansion plans in North America. MLS has the help of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which owns Toronto FC, the NHL's Maple Leafs and the NBA's Raptors, in identifying possible expansion cities, as well as sponsorship strategies in Canada. Expansion will be on the agenda next month when league and various team executives will be in Toronto for the MLS All-Star Game.

"Right now, we're fortunate there's more interest in expansion in Major League Soccer than in any other point of our 13-season history," said Courtemanche, noting that Canadian NBA star Steve Nash has expressed interest in being an owner, too.

Not being able to secure a team for 2010 would probably be a good thing for Melnyk, who couldn't be reached for comment yesterday.

With a design competition for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Park still months away, it certainly doesn't look as if the stadium would be ready by 2010, anyway. (There's also the possibility that the city may decide it doesn't want a stadium in a new Lansdowne Park, even though that is highly unlikely as it is seen as the centerpiece to the redevelopment.)

Melnyk's interest in bringing MLS to Ottawa may have more to do with a revamped or new Frank Clair Stadium -- some say it should be razed and rebuilt because it's a dump -- in order to expand his entertainment empire beyond Scotiabank Place.

In 2005, there were strong rumours that Melnyk was prepared to step in to save the Renegades, Ottawa's most recent CFL team, if the city was willing to turn over management of some key components of the park, such as the stadium and the Civic Centre, to his company, Capital Tickets.

Capital would have had control over event bookings and revenue from ticket sales, concessions and parking, and presumably used some of that money to offset any losses by the football club. The city balked and the following spring the Renegades were dead.

For now, it appears the city will not allow private enterprise to take over control of a redeveloped Lansdowne Park as was initially suggested by Hunt's group. However, Melnyk, if he is granted a MLS franchise, would likely want that arrangement for at least the stadium and Civic Centre, as he did three years ago. Under that system, the new CFL team's lease would presumably be with Capital, which would also control ticket sales for the team.

Is Melnyk's desire to bring the MLS to sports-fickle Ottawa pie-in-the-sky? Soccer enthusiasts point to Toronto FC and how quickly fans embraced the club and the constant sellout games. They also note that last year's under-20 FIFA world tournament, held in six Canadian cities, including Ottawa, was a huge success. Ottawa came close to a sellout for its five FIFA games held at the 26,500-seat Frank Clair Stadium.

Still, the FIFA tournament was a rare event, so there was probably a higher level of interest. And, in measuring the success of Toronto FC, one would have to take into account the huge population base the club draws from in southern Ontario's Golden Horseshoe, and how ethnically diverse the city is, which is a key to selling soccer in North America.

John Pugh, president and chief executive of the Ottawa Fury, thinks an MLS team has a far greater chance of surviving in Ottawa -- given the growing interest in the game and the success of last year's FIFA tournament -- than actually landing here any time soon.

"Would I love to see it? Yes," said Pugh. "Would I love to see a higher level of soccer than we now have in the city? Absolutely yes. But in the short term, the competition for franchises would make it difficult (for Ottawa to acquire one.)

MLS teams currently play a 30-game regular season -- 15 at home and 15 on the road. CFL teams play 18 -- nine at home and nine away. Though the Renegades had problems drawing big crowds despite only nine home games over four months, CFL supporters contend that a big selling point for Ottawa's next team would be a "world-class stadium."

The city plans to demolish the lower section of the stadium's southside stands in July. The section was condemned last fall. The city is also conducting engineering tests on the northside stands in order to outline what work is necessary for firms entering the Lansdowne Park design competition. Richard Haycock, Lansdowne's general manager, said the tests have so far not found any serious problems.

However, there is a growing feeling among some sports promoters that the city should simply do the job properly by tearing down what's there now, including the Civic Centre, and rebuilding from scratch.

One estimate puts renovation costs at $60 million -- as long as the city finds no other problems with the structure.
A couple of points regarding this article:

- The CFL 2010 deadline is coming up fast! Not sure how firm it is and how easy it would be to push it back a year or two. Probably not that big a deal, come to think of it.

- Not sure where he gets the idea that the Renegades had trouble drawing crowds. Renegades attendance was actually pretty good, considering how bad the teams were and the CFL averages across the league for that period.

- It's unlikely the Civic Centre/north side stands structure will be torn down in the near future. It is still in pretty good shape, completely functional, and relatively well-used. People may not find it pretty, but prettiness is not what it's all about when you're talking mega-millions of dollars. More likely is that the entire south side stands structure will be torn down and replaced by something new of a similar size to what was there before.
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 2:39 PM
Mille Sabords's Avatar
Mille Sabords Mille Sabords is offline
Elle est déjà vide!
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Big Bad Ottawa
Posts: 2,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
A couple of points regarding this article:

- The CFL 2010 deadline is coming up fast! Not sure how firm it is and how easy it would be to push it back a year or two. Probably not that big a deal, come to think of it.

- Not sure where he gets the idea that the Renegades had trouble drawing crowds. Renegades attendance was actually pretty good, considering how bad the teams were and the CFL averages across the league for that period.

- It's unlikely the Civic Centre/north side stands structure will be torn down in the near future. It is still in pretty good shape, completely functional, and relatively well-used. People may not find it pretty, but prettiness is not what it's all about when you're talking mega-millions of dollars. More likely is that the entire south side stands structure will be torn down and replaced by something new of a similar size to what was there before.
And another point regarding this article: finally someone is saying it in plain language but the idea of having a stadium anywhere else than Lansdowne is ridiculous. Cost-wise and in every other way except to please the cranky Glebites with an axe to grind against people having a good time.
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 2:48 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 69,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mille Sabords View Post
And another point regarding this article: finally someone is saying it in plain language but the idea of having a stadium anywhere else than Lansdowne is ridiculous. Cost-wise and in every other way except to please the cranky Glebites with an axe to grind against people having a good time.
Yes, it would be ridiculous to move it anywhere else.

As for the Glebeites, well unless they moved in between 1888 and 1908, they can't really complain. Lansdowne Park has been used for large public gatherings (exhibitions, fairs, sporting events) for close to 120 years!
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 3:26 PM
Mister F Mister F is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,867
Quote:
Don't forget MLS is an American league, and U.S. cities generally come first.
From what I've heard it was formed specifically to give the US a pro soccer league. Canada is just piggybacking, just like the NHL, NBA, etc. If there's enough support for a top tier soccer team in cities like Ottawa, and Vancouver and Montreal are trying to get into MLS, maybe it's time to think about a Canadian league. It was tried before and didn't work, but the game's a lot more popular now than 20 years ago. The Canadian Championship (the Canadian MLS and USL teams) seems to be getting more imporant, so I could see that evolving into something more substantial. A Canadian league wouldn't have to be isolated from the US, it could even be a Canadian division whose teams regularly play American teams. I think if MLS and USL got together and formed a promotion and relegation system like every other league has it would really progress things. In the meantime Eugene Melnyk should focus on getting a team in the USL.

As for baseball, it's doing okay in Toronto but it still takes a backseat to other sports. Toronto FC are the big deal now in the summer. Even the Argos outdraw the Jays.
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 3:39 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 69,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister F View Post
From what I've heard it was formed specifically to give the US a pro soccer league.
It was a condition imposed by FIFA in exchange for allowing the U.S. to host the 1994 World Cup. Work began on creating MLS in 1993, but actual play didn't begin until 1996.
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 5:24 PM
Cre47's Avatar
Cre47 Cre47 is offline
Awesome!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Orleans, ON
Posts: 1,971
That would probably draw some interest, probably especially when the LA Galaxy will be in town (if that happens), although not sure if David Beckham would still be playing by then with the club in 2010 or 2012.
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2008, 1:30 AM
Mille Sabords's Avatar
Mille Sabords Mille Sabords is offline
Elle est déjà vide!
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Big Bad Ottawa
Posts: 2,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister F View Post
From what I've heard it was formed specifically to give the US a pro soccer league. Canada is just piggybacking, just like the NHL, NBA, etc.
I have to correct you here. The NHL was a Canadian league at birth (1917). It added its first US expansion team in 1925. Its headquarters were in Montreal until not too long ago. The Stanley Cup was created in Ottawa.
     
     
  #89  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2008, 2:51 AM
Mister F Mister F is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,867
Be that as it may, it's an American league now and it puts American interests first.
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2008, 5:43 AM
Rico Rommheim's Avatar
Rico Rommheim Rico Rommheim is offline
Look at me!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: City of Bagels
Posts: 13,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister F View Post
Be that as it may, it's an American league now and it puts American interests first.
Canada piggybacking on the NHL? Are you kidding me? Canada is carrying the NHL, it was created here and its HQ'd in TO as well as NY), the hall of fame is here and 50% of NHL players are canadian. 1/3 of revenue comes from the 6 teams and the overwhelimg majority of tv viewership is centred in canada. Really...
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2008, 10:55 PM
Mille Sabords's Avatar
Mille Sabords Mille Sabords is offline
Elle est déjà vide!
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Big Bad Ottawa
Posts: 2,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim View Post
Canada piggybacking on the NHL? Are you kidding me? Canada is carrying the NHL, it was created here and its HQ'd in TO as well as NY), the hall of fame is here and 50% of NHL players are canadian. 1/3 of revenue comes from the 6 teams and the overwhelimg majority of tv viewership is centred in canada. Really...
Thanks Rico - couldn't have said it better.
     
     
  #92  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2008, 7:24 PM
Mister F Mister F is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,867
Tell that to Gary Bettman. The focus is on the United States and it has been for decades. Every decision is made to further the game in the United States, and Canada is an afterthought. It's shown in everything from tv contracts to expansion to new rules.

It could be argued that Canada is getting more influence in the league again, but if that's the trend (a big if) the league is being dragged in that direction kicking and screaming.
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2008, 8:09 PM
AuxTown's Avatar
AuxTown AuxTown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 4,187
With the economy in the US right now and the general lack of interest for hockey in 80% of the markets, I forsee a major shift back to Canada in the next few years, including at least one more team here (i.e. Winnipeg, Quebec, Hamilton, KW).
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2008, 2:57 AM
KitchenerBitcher's Avatar
KitchenerBitcher KitchenerBitcher is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kitchener
Posts: 144
KW, KW, yes we'll take one please!!!!!!!
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2008, 2:50 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 69,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister F View Post
Tell that to Gary Bettman. The focus is on the United States and it has been for decades. Every decision is made to further the game in the United States, and Canada is an afterthought. It's shown in everything from tv contracts to expansion to new rules.

It could be argued that Canada is getting more influence in the league again, but if that's the trend (a big if) the league is being dragged in that direction kicking and screaming.
What Mister F said. Although Rico's point are all valid, no one seems to paying attention at NHL head office. Just look at the consideration CBC gets for TV-friendly game scheduling compared to U.S. networks. It's outrageous when one considers how much of a "cash cow" the NHL's contract with CBC is, at least compared to the U.S. deals which are often close to being giveaways of broadcast rights.
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2008, 6:02 PM
Radster Radster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chelsea
Posts: 997
USL team or MLS team in Ottawa, doesn't matter to me, I will be the 1st in line to get season tickets, a jersey and to form a travelling fan club!

The new MLS stadiums being built stateside have capacities of 15,000 to 30,000 people. Demolishing the south stands of Frank Clair Stadium, replacing them by something that is less of an eyesore and actually nice to look at should not be too costly, look at how little it cost to build the Saputo Stadium in MTL. Plus, the new stands don't have to be as HUGE as the current South stand. The North stands / CIVIC centre could certainly be refurbished to look newer and less depressing for a small cost.

What is the capacity of the North Stands? 12,000? If so, then the East, South and West stands would not have to be as massive, perhaps 8,000 for the South and another 5,000 shared between the East and West so as to have a total capacity of 25,000. Filling in the East and West sides with stands so that we can actually have a full oval stadium should be a no brainer, then we can actually do the wave during matches, plus the overall atmosphere during events would be more exciting and loud!

I can't wait to see the new proposals and ideas.
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2008, 6:35 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radster View Post
USL team or MLS team in Ottawa, doesn't matter to me, I will be the 1st in line to get season tickets, a jersey and to form a travelling fan club!

The new MLS stadiums being built stateside have capacities of 15,000 to 30,000 people. Demolishing the south stands of Frank Clair Stadium, replacing them by something that is less of an eyesore and actually nice to look at should not be too costly, look at how little it cost to build the Saputo Stadium in MTL. Plus, the new stands don't have to be as HUGE as the current South stand. The North stands / CIVIC centre could certainly be refurbished to look newer and less depressing for a small cost.

What is the capacity of the North Stands? 12,000? If so, then the East, South and West stands would not have to be as massive, perhaps 8,000 for the South and another 5,000 shared between the East and West so as to have a total capacity of 25,000. Filling in the East and West sides with stands so that we can actually have a full oval stadium should be a no brainer, then we can actually do the wave during matches, plus the overall atmosphere during events would be more exciting and loud!

I can't wait to see the new proposals and ideas.


Currently:

North: 14542 (Mostly backed-bench seats, some individual in the middle, some wheelchair)
South Lower: 6414 (backed-bench seats)
South Upper: 7870 (bench seats)

The north stands go from football back line to back line.
The south stand go from football goal line to football goal line (also soccer goal line).

The key when designing something (shape wise) is that particularly for football all or the majority of the seats fall between the goal lines (or at least the back lines a la the north side).

The other consideration is that sufficient space is left around the stadium (usually the endzones) to allow for 25-30k temporary seats to be installed to host special events such as the Grey Cup where 50-55k is needed.
     
     
  #98  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2008, 6:47 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 69,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by c_speed3108 View Post
Currently:

North: 14542 (Mostly backed-bench seats, some individual in the middle, some wheelchair)
South Lower: 6414 (backed-bench seats)
South Upper: 7870 (bench seats)

The north stands go from football back line to back line.
The south stand go from football goal line to football goal line (also soccer goal line).

The key when designing something (shape wise) is that particularly for football all or the majority of the seats fall between the goal lines (or at least the back lines a la the north side).

The other consideration is that sufficient space is left around the stadium (usually the endzones) to allow for 25-30k temporary seats to be installed to host special events such as the Grey Cup where 50-55k is needed.
Yeah, bowl-type configurations (which I prefer, actually) are usually only used when stadium capacity is much higher than Frank Clair, and putting all of the seats between the goal lines would result in some seats being way too high (nosebleed city), so they expand into the end zones, which may not be optimal, but at least people are closer to the action.
     
     
  #99  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2008, 7:35 PM
AuxTown's Avatar
AuxTown AuxTown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 4,187
I mentioned this in another thread, but I think Lansdowne would be great for a U-shaped stadium like BMO in Toronto:



The stands would wrap around the West side along Bank street and a couple stores or restaurants could be incorporated into the structure so that they open up onto the street as well as the stadium. On the East side that is left open in TO, I imagine a parking structure similar to the one at the Ottawa Airport:



This would buffer some of the stadium noise from what will surely be residential towers on the East side of Lansdowne along the canal. A big screen could also be affixed to the structure which would be pretty convenient and would make the stadium feel more intimate as opposed to having openings on each end.
     
     
  #100  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2008, 11:02 PM
AuxTown's Avatar
AuxTown AuxTown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 4,187
Update from the city of Ottawa:

Quote:
In November 2007 Council initiated a design competition process for Lansdowne Park based on the Rights to Development approach. Since this time issues surrounding the future use of Frank Clair Stadium, the Civic Centre, and the parking area have arisen in the context of the awarding of a conditional Canadian Football League franchise to Ottawa.

At this time staff would like to advise that the Design Lansdowne initiative is on hold until mid-Fall 2008 pending a complete review of building conditions of the Frank Clair Stadium and the Civic Centre, and a review of the Shenkman business plan/CFL proposal.

Economic and Environmental Sustainability branch staff are expecting receipt of the Shenkman business plan/CFL proposal mid-July which will detail any expectations the sports consortium has of the City.

A Fall report to a joint meeting of the Corporate Service and Economic Development and Planning and Environment committees will identify what is proposed by the Shenkman business plan/CFL proposal, including financial terms as well as any potential requests for development rights on the site, and a recommendation to Council to accept or reject the proposal. A second report will seek direction from Council on whether to proceed with the Design Lansdowne competition, and in the event that Council wishes to proceed, propose modifications to the competition process based on the results of the public consultations.
I wonder if the Shenkman business plan/CFL proposal in mid-July will be made public??
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Downtown & City of Ottawa
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:34 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.