Wpg: Chief Peguis Trail Extension

[thegreattait]

Bishop and Pembina, but there are still lights on Pembina so I don't know how much of an overpass that is its a 50% job on that one.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by thegreattait

Bishop and Pembina, but there are still lights on Pembina so I don't know how much of an overpass that is its a 50% job on that one.

I would expect the Bishop and Pembina overpass to be exactly as they had optimally designed. It is a Parclo A4 interchange as described in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parclo_interchange

They are considered safer than (and the successor to) the cloverleaf. My assumption is that this is exactly as originally designed, although I could be wrong.

[trueviking]

this project is a stupid idea....is this really a top priority for the city?....check the long list of valuable things cut from the city budget in the paper today....how can building a suburban freeway from nowhere to nowhere be tops on the list?...its not even in the top 50 things winnipeg needs most...i hope it dies a horrible death.

slash the tree maintenance budget in half so we can afford a pointless freeway that seemingly accomplishes nothing.

[rrskylar]

Makeover ordered for Chief Peguis extension

By: Joe Paraskevas

Updated: March 25 at 12:55 AM CDT

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A north Winnipeg councillor has sent city staff back to the drawing board over a controversial intersection planned for the Chief Peguis Trail.

North Kildonan Coun. Jeff Browaty said Monday he has asked city administrators to look into alternatives to the proposed design of an intersection between Rothesay Street and the planned extension of Chief Peguis Trail, a four-lane road meant to be a major east-west route across the city's northern reaches.

Rather than build an underpass at Rothesay and have Chief Peguis traffic flow virtually unimpeded, the city proposed building a traffic-light controlled intersection due to skyrocketing construction costs. The city asked the public for feedback at a public meeting three weeks ago.

Browaty, who lives along the trail's proposed route, said he was "disappointed" when he saw details of the $64-million new road at the meeting.

"(The intersection with) Rothesay isn't good," he said, noting he is concerned about young people crossing the roads to go to nearby schools.

He suggested alternatives.

One involves blocking off Rothesay on each side of Chief Peguis. Traffic could use on- and off-ramps to access the new road, Browaty suggested, and emergency vehicles could be rerouted.

Pedestrians would have a dedicated overpass.

"It would probably (cost) less..." Browaty said.

He also suggested a "scaled-down underpass." Under that option, planners would narrow the boulevard separating traffic on Chief Peguis. A bike path would cross Rothesay at a level intersection, rather than follow Chief Peguis through the underpass, Browaty said.

The city has estimated the underpass would cost as much as $60 million.

Construction of Chief Peguis from Henderson Highway east to Lagimodi ®re Boulevard will start next year.

[email protected]

[Biff]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

The city has estimated the underpass would cost as much as $60 million.


[email protected]

That is such a bullshit number. The entire Kenaston underpass was $38 million and it involved a much more complicated rail crossing, plus there was the detours needed for existing traffic. This is just the City's way of saying they don't want to spend the money to build it. Either way i don't care, just don't blow smoke up my ass.

If they are going to build the highway it is absolutely ridiculous that you would have a 4 lane, 80 km/hr highway intersecting a small 2 lane 50 km/hr residential street serving 3 schools.

[The Jabroni]

$60 million for either a dedicated pedestrian overpass or a 2 lane road? That can't be right, and the skyrocketing construction costs is no excuse anymore.

I'm with Biff on this one!

[Spocket]

Sixty million bucks ? Uh, is it made out of gold and covered in diamonds or something ?

[1ajs]

60million? wha? what kinda inlfation rate is that over 5 years?

[furiousmcd]

Why exactly is this extension such a priority when so many other projects are in dire straits? Is there a plan that goes along with it? From what I've heard and seen about it, I'm drawn to think it's another senseless project that the city shamelessly completes in the most inexpensive way and will end up regretting. Maybe I'm just cynical today...

[Spocket]

^
Currently all the cross streets linking Henderson to Lagimodiere are over capacity. Way over capacity. They were never intended to handle that kind of traffic and furthermore, they're residential collector streets for the most parts. As it stands, it would cost us more in the long run not to build the CPT extension because we'd be rebuilding Sprinfield , McLeod, and McIvor at a greater frequency than we should have to. It's also a safety issue since these other streets mentioned aren't supposed to be main arteries and have houses and schools fronting them.

This corridor should have been built years ago but has been deferred every time it's come up on the agenda. If the city waits any longer, we'll be looking at millions spent to fix the collector streets while at the same time, not actually addressing the traffic issues. If the world suddenly decided that it would take the bus then no, we wouldn't need this but change is slow and it's going to be decades before we can count on high-density , walkable communities to ease traffic concerns.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by furiousmcd

Why exactly is this extension such a priority when so many other projects are in dire straits? Is there a plan that goes along with it? From what I've heard and seen about it, I'm drawn to think it's another senseless project that the city shamelessly completes in the most inexpensive way and will end up regretting. Maybe I'm just cynical today...

I'll pose this question once again, what part of the city do you live in? Sure as shit I'm pretty sure it's not anywhere in NE Winnipeg!



PS. Spocket; the land for the Chief Peguis Trail has been set aside since at least 1974, it could even be longer, I think if this project was on the books this long anywhere in south Winnipeg it would have been built ten years ago!

[Spocket]

^You're probably right but growth rates in the south end are also considerably higher. I recall the ND Lea report done for Waverley West which basically states that south Winnipeg makes up about %70 (actually, I think it was just over %70) of new home construction in the city.

Bishop Grandin was undoubtedly the catalyst for that growth but it's not really fair if somebody wants to make the same claim for the CPT extension. When BIshop was first constructed, there wasn't nearly as much development south of it as today. The corridor for the CPT extension was surrounded by development years ago and while plan calls for further extensions , the current extension won't be facilitating sprawl since said sprawl already exists. We all want higher density of course but in this case, the damage is already done.

[furiousmcd]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

I'll pose this question once again, what part of the city do you live in? Sure as shit I'm pretty sure it's not anywhere in NE Winnipeg!

Hahah, you would be right by that assumption. I live in Old St. Vital.

[furiousmcd]

So with all of this said, do they plan on closing off part of Springfield Road like they did with Wilkes with the Kenaston Overpass?

[Biff]

I don't think that the traffic congestion in the area is actually that bad it is just the fact that there are no tru collector east-west streets between Lagimodiere and Henderson. This then causes all of the small residential streets to handle more capacity than they were designed for, and talk about taking a beating. Drive down Springfield Rd, every year they tear up the joints and replace with new concrete and yet is still feels like you are going off roading. No i know that all of the streets in the city are crappy but the reason for these being so is the abuse they get from truck traffic that i'm sure they were not designed for.

Regarding the bike trail - the Marconi Trail. They are incorporating new trails with this one year old trail that i'm sure will be the nicest system of trails in the city. Very well thought out.

....and for anyone who didn't know or doesn't know what the planned use for the stretch of open field from Henderson to Lagimodiere was intendend for i say too bad. No one can actually try to convince me that they thought this was intended to remain greenspace. They should have their head checked. And if you move into an area without investigating it first, you really have no right to complain.

[Only The Lonely..]

Did anybody else notice that Petroskos Garden Market and Douglas Auto are both being expropriated for a Park 'n' Ride?

Both have petitions going right now to fight city hall.

Also, my brother surmised that perhaps the reason why River East Plaza has become so run down over the years is because the landlord is planning on turning it into a power centre once the CPT opens up.

Safeway is normally a "premium" grocery chain, but the one in River East Plaza hasn't been renovated since 1968 and is missing the token Starbucks that you normally seem to find in all the other stores.

Concidence?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Also, my brother surmised that perhaps the reason why River East Plaza has become so run down over the years is because the landlord is planning on turning it into a power centre once the CPT opens up.

Safeway is normally a "premium" grocery chain, but the one in River East Plaza hasn't been renovated since 1968 and is missing the token Starbucks that you normally seem to find in all the other stores.

Concidence?

I have spoken with a planner at Safeway and was told the reason Safeway hasn't spent any money at this location is that Safeway only builds stand alone stores now. They are not investing any money in this location until they are able to move the alignment of the store to the back of the lot (east) along Donwood. (they already have plans drawn up). The reason they haven't yet is Zellers, for what ever reason received a sweetheart of a deal on their piece of the mall and aren't interested in investing in it. I guess we have to wait until Zellers lease is up.

...all i can say is - what a dump.

[DowntownWpg]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Did anybody else notice that Petroskos Garden Market and Douglas Auto are both being expropriated for a Park 'n' Ride?

Douglas Auto is an eyesore, and they are perhaps the biggest rip-off artists in Winnipeg auto repair (and that's saying a lot). Good riddance!

Too bad about Petrosko Brothers Garden centre though. It's a Mom-and-Pop garden/flower store that seems to do good business, despite competing against the Rona's and Home Depots.

I suppose the senior's vegetable and flower gardens will be given the boot as well, which is between Petrosko and the bus loop. With all the sucking up to seniors that Browaty The Booze-Head (I'll expand) has done to court that vote, this community garden could derail projects such as the park-and-ride, even the Chief expansion. Note to Browaty: the symbolic Harold and Maude relationship you have courted with the elderly will all come crumbling down with a DUI or other intoxication-related charge (you have PC Manitoba friends with loose lips, and the Villa parking lot is certainly not a private retreat).

Blah, Blah, Blah...

Getting back to the Chief expansion, I grew up and lived in NK essentially my entire life, only moving to Downtown about a year ago. Have been hearing talk of expansion from the early days of former city counselor Marky-Mark Lubosch. But, apparently talk of making a route on the Douglas field has been going on in the times of Teary Duguid and Drunken D. Mitchelson (yes, alcohol has ruined an NK counselor's career before).

As Biff said, the residents should have or could have known this when they were deciding on buying their home. Echoing something along the lines of what Only The Lonely said last week, if they want to live on a nice stretch of the country, they should move to Plum Coolie.

While it's a given that people on Douglas will be up-in-arms, there really is not that many of them, so hopefully the uproar isn't great. There are no homes that I can recall on the long stretch of Douglas (between Rothesay and Raleigh).

It'd be great for NK in general, drivers, and bus routes in the northern half of Winnipeg. This may have already been mentioned, but streets such as Gilmore, McIvor, Bonner and Knowles have been (IMO) getting noticeably more and more busy the past decade, and I think it must be related to the population growth out in East St. Paul (they are using these roads to get from Lagimodiere to Henderson, then to downtown).

The incorrectly-self-perceived elitists on McIvor went so far to get Marky-Mark to put up a baracade on McIvor and Lagimodiere (to drastically reduce traffic between Gateway and Lagimodiere), and I was pleased when it came down (it was essentially North K's version of Les Misérables). Now, if I'm going from Lag to Gateway or Henderson, or vice versa, I go out of my way to take that stretch of McIvor - just because I feel like I'm sticking it to them (it's the small pleasures in life that motivate me to get out of bed in the morning).

My point, which is getting away from me, is that the situation of traffic in NK between Henderson and Lag is only going to become more problematic. They need to complete Chief, and they need to do it properly. I'm disappointed to hear of the probability that it'll have too many traffic stops, particularly on Rothesay... it should be an overpass!

But I guess that's the Winnipeg way, plan for the future by building what the needs were ten years ago.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by DowntownWpg

Douglas Auto is an eyesore, and they are perhaps the biggest rip-off artists in Winnipeg auto repair (and that's saying a lot). Good riddance!

Too bad about Petrosko Brothers Garden centre though. It's a Mom-and-Pop garden/flower store that seems to do good business, despite competing against the Rona's and Home Depots.

I suppose the senior's vegetable and flower gardens will be given the boot as well, which is between Petrosko and the bus loop. With all the sucking up to seniors that Browaty The Booze-Head (I'll expand) has done to court that vote, this community garden could derail projects such as the park-and-ride, even the Chief expansion. Note to Browaty: the symbolic Harold and Maude relationship you have courted with the elderly will all come crumbling down with a DUI or other intoxication-related charge (you have PC Manitoba friends with loose lips, and the Villa parking lot is certainly not a private retreat).

Blah, Blah, Blah...

Getting back to the Chief expansion, I grew up and lived in NK essentially my entire life, only moving to Downtown about a year ago. Have been hearing talk of expansion from the early days of former city counselor Marky-Mark Lubosch. But, apparently talk of making a route on the Douglas field has been going on in the times of Teary Duguid and Drunken D. Mitchelson (yes, alcohol has ruined an NK counselor's career before).

As Biff said, the residents should have or could have known this when they were deciding on buying their home. Echoing something along the lines of what Only The Lonely said last week, if they want to live on a nice stretch of the country, they should move to Plum Coolie.

While it's a given that people on Douglas will be up-in-arms, there really is not that many of them, so hopefully the uproar isn't great. There are no homes that I can recall on the long stretch of Douglas (between Rothesay and Raleigh).

It'd be great for NK in general, drivers, and bus routes in the northern half of Winnipeg. This may have already been mentioned, but streets such as Gilmore, McIvor, Bonner and Knowles have been (IMO) getting noticeably more and more busy the past decade, and I think it must be related to the population growth out in East St. Paul (they are using these roads to get from Lagimodiere to Henderson, then to downtown).

The incorrectly-self-perceived elitists on McIvor went so far to get Marky-Mark to put up a baracade on McIvor and Lagimodiere (to drastically reduce traffic between Gateway and Lagimodiere), and I was pleased when it came down (it was essentially North K's version of Les Misérables). Now, if I'm going from Lag to Gateway or Henderson, or vice versa, I go out of my way to take that stretch of McIvor - just because I feel like I'm sticking it to them (it's the small pleasures in life that motivate me to get out of bed in the morning).

My point, which is getting away from me, is that the situation of traffic in NK between Henderson and Lag is only going to become more problematic. They need to complete Chief, and they need to do it properly. I'm disappointed to hear of the probability that it'll have too many traffic stops, particularly on Rothesay... it should be an overpass!

But I guess that's the Winnipeg way, plan for the future by building what the needs were ten years ago.

You mean underpass!

[Only The Lonely..]

Further to the Park and Ride proposal..

I just can't see anybody from East St.Paul in their big land yacht leaving their vehicle at a surface lot and then taking the bus downtown with the rest of us animals.

I love urbanism and public transit, but I can't imagine it working in real life.