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  #81  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 6:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinGuy View Post
Any word in the packet about how much the monthly fees will be? Are we looking at $500/month in condo fees on top of these prices?

Personally, I don't think the market supports these prices if all of the projects in the pipeline get built. Condo sellers aren't stupid though. By pricing the units this high, they are taking away the profits from any potential flippers in the reservation queue.
They are affordable, to the rich. The $500/month condo fee is the least of your worries. Wait until you get the property tax bill. At least the condo fees are spent on your building. The property tax is an open invitation for anyone who "needs" the money to use your condo as an ATM machine. Without some kind of cap on the property taxes, I will not be buying.
     
     
  #82  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
I'm curious, what makes you think, as business men first, these developers aren't just testing the waters to see how much profit they can make? These are not commnunity/government projects. They are for profit. I am personally dissapointed these are not lower priced.... but I simply figure that when they are not selling, the price will fall. What on earth is the big deal?
They should get as much as the market will accept. But, there is very little market at $500 PSF (especially in Austin). The question is more to the viablity of Spring/360 - if you can't sell it, why build it? If these projects reduce their pricing closer to $300 PSF there are plenty of buyers. Less profit to the developer = bigger market.

Maybe Perry Lorenz (Spring) and Taylor Andrews (360) will lower prices - perhaps closer to what they've said during the last 18 months "$300-$400 PSF," not +$500 PSF. That 25%-60% higher than they told us. Remember "starting at $200,000?" What? Three units? 500 square foot units?

They're on this Forum all the time - let them share their rational for these prices. Even Austin doesn't have enough fools to pay $500 PSF for less-than-luxury high-rise condos. This is way beyond "weird."

Even the recently announced Metropolitan (11th and San Jacinto - lovely area) is expecting to sell for $400-500 PSF .... to who?

Downtown Austin needs housing priced from the equivalent transition from urban luxury apartments to home ownership and higher (not all higher). AMLI, 404 Rio Grande and the junk on the East side of 35 all rent for $2.00 PSF or a monthly payment of $2,000 for a decent one-bedroom. The prices for Spring, 360 and many of the others start at $3,500 per month for their cheapest condo (near the dumpster). Their average monthly cost for a condo is more than $5,000 per month! These monthly amounts include mortgage (30-yr fixed), association fees and taxes. How many buyers can afford those payments?

Others will hopefully add to this discussion - especially those trying to find a place to "own" downtown. Recently the Statesman had an article talking about subsidizing downtown living. How long will it be before Spring and 360 begin looking for government assistance? I can hear it now "so our teachers and police and firemen can live downtown." I expect this will come out in the next few months. It will be interesting to watch.

Last edited by LookingUp; Feb 5, 2007 at 6:56 PM.
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 8:16 PM
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Big news in today's paper. Click on the link below to see the map. I'm a bit surprised they didn't go higher, though, considering there's no height restriction for the post office site. Anyway, this is great news since it'll likely mean atleast another 500 footer and another 400 footer. This will help soften the blow from The Austonian and T. Stacy Tower.

From the Austin American-Statesman
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/business/stories/realestate/02/06/6novare.html

REAL ESTATE
Plans revealed for new postal service tower, condominiums
Another high rise is scheduled for current post office site.

By Shonda Novak
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF


Monday, February 05, 2007

Two more high-rise residential towers with more than 900 condominiums are slated to be built downtown, including a 35-story tower at Sixth and Nueces streets that will provide a new home for the existing downtown post office.

Atlanta-based Novare Group Holdings and its Austin-based partner, Andrews Urban LLC, plan to break ground on the first building this fall. It will have about about 400 condominiums in a tower that will adjoin a new two-story postal facility at the corner of Fifth and San Antonio.

The post office would open in 2008 and the residential tower in fall 2009.

Once the post office moves into its new building, the developers plan to start construction on a second high-rise at the existing postal site. It would be a 40-story tower with more than 500 condos as well as more than 100 hotel rooms and and more than 25,000 square feet of ground-floor retail space.

Both projects are expected to cost a total of $300 million.

The hotel operator has not been determined. However, Novare has a hotel subsidiary called Twelve Hotels that operates an existing 101-room hotel in Atlanta. Two more Twelve hotels are under construction, one at Centennial Park in downtown Atlanta and another in Charlotte, N.C.

The development will include a seven-story parking garage; one level will be for shared parking for post office and retail customers.

The U.S. Postal Service selected Novare/Andrews Urban in August through a competitive selection process to redevelop its existing downtown location, at Fifth and Guadalupe streets. Mayor Will Wynn and many local developers have long said the site is under-used, with a one-and-a-half-story post office occupying 76,000 square feet of a prime downtown block.

The 35-story tower will occupy three-quarters of a city block adjacent to the existing Miller Blueprint Co. that Novare/Andrews Urban purchased in December. The site originally was slated for a second office tower that Intel Corp. planned, along with a chip-design factory that it halted work on amid the tech bust of 2001.

Both new towers will need city zoning variances to build higher-density projects. The developers plan to incorporate city guidelines for wider streets, with tree-lined sidewalks and benches and bicycle racks.

The condo units in both towers are expected to be priced comparably to 360, a 44-story condo project Novare/Andrews Urban is building at Third and Nueces streets.

Prices there start at under $200,000 for a one-bedroom home and under $300,000 for a two-bedroom unit. The most expensive units are in the mid-$500,000s.

With more than a dozen residential projects being built or planned downtown, developers say demand is especially keen for units with more moderately priced units, which Novare/Andrews Urban says its projects will provide.

Taylor Andrews, president of Andrews Urban, declined to say how many people are on 360's list of prospective buyers, but said demand has "far exceeded expectations."

"We have enough interest that we eagerly would like to get more than 900 units in downtown Austin," Andrews said. "We believe that the demand for attainably priced housing in downtown Austin far exceeds the planned condominium pipeline," Andrews said.

The 360 sales center will open in late February. The tower is expected to open in spring 2008. It will have 430 condominiums and about 14,000 square feet of ground-floor retail, including restaurant space.
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Last edited by KevinFromTexas; Feb 5, 2007 at 8:23 PM.
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 8:34 PM
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wow I am a bit dissapointed in the fact that they are not taller. Honestly with the hype about that site I thought we were going to see some monster size buildings. Though its ironic but just a few years ago a 35 story buildnig and a 40 story building would be very exciting LOL but now its like um okay well damn its not taller??? I would hope that between now and groundbreaking that they may tweek there plans up a bit more...
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 8:36 PM
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Crescent Explores Austin Exit
http://austin.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2007/02/05/story4.html?page=2&b=1170651600^1412293

And Novare's Annual Report (Developer of 360)
http://novaregroup.com/resources/Novare_07_Winter.pdf
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 8:53 PM
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Judging by condo pre-sales activities in other cities over the last few years, we can be fairly certain that a large # of people in the reservation queue on these projects are purchasing with the intention of flipping as soon as the project is completed.

Now it will be interesting to see if the increased price per square foot on these projects scares some of these flippers off. The flippers just lost out on $200/ft profit that they "might" have made if the project had been completed at the original price.

I predict that Spring & 360 will have a difficult time selling out at the new prices even if their reservation queue is currently overflowing. If they can't sell at the new prices, some of the other projects may get delayed.

This is definitely an exciting time for downtown Austin. Personally, I hope all of these projects get built so that we have that many more housing options downtown in the future.
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 9:41 PM
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FYI, Spring just announced pricing on most units of $400-$550/SF. Ouch.
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 11:00 PM
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hopefully these towers will be good designed, because alot of Novarres stuff is kinda bland. Not that 360 is bad.. but its not great either. Plus its a copycat building.
     
     
  #89  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 11:01 PM
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Austin is blowing up.
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 12:04 AM
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Spring's Average PSF Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestAustinite View Post
FYI, Spring just announced pricing on most units of $400-$550/SF. Ouch.
Their goal is to average $525 PSF for Spring. There are very few units at less than $450 PSF.

Remember, Milago did well with a good product (not great) in a great location and with prices of $250-$300 PSF. Spring and 360 are similar products (non-luxury) in good locations - and they want TWICE as much $-PSF?

We all want to see these buildings completed, but who's going to buy them. Their banks are not allowing any investor participation (read: no flipping). Where are the buyers?
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by LookingUp View Post
Their banks are not allowing any investor participation (read: no flipping). Where are the buyers?
How exactly will the banks prevent this? I've seen some buildings which require the purchaser to hold for a year before selling, but that doesn't mean no flippers. I do think the new price increases will drive the flippers away.
     
     
  #92  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 4:29 AM
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i know my friends who had a $500 deposit down on Spring just pulled it, they are now looking at 360 but i think that it too will raise the price in time even though they are starting there sales kick off soon, prices not announced, how convenient. I would love to get into one of these but even if i had the money i think i would wait to see how the sales are like once they are built. There are like 10 units or more at Milago for sale now. and they are all at good prices, $250 and up, i would rather be there i think.
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 4:32 AM
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No Investors (Flippers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinGuy View Post
How exactly will the banks prevent this? I've seen some buildings which require the purchaser to hold for a year before selling, but that doesn't mean no flippers. I do think the new price increases will drive the flippers away.
Spring and 360 lied to us, they can't lie to the bank - they agreed not to. It is contained in their loan documentation for project financing. Banks have become much more concerned about the "quaility" of the buyers (perhaps, too many of the developer's relatives). Banks are now requiring 70% pre-sales with "qualified buyers."

By the way, Novare's other projects are selling for $250-$350 PSF in Tampa and Nashville. Why so much more in Austin?
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 6:01 AM
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Here's the extended version of the article. It doesn't include a rendering, though. Maybe the paper does? Click on the link below for the map which shows the footprints of the buildings.

[b]From the Austin American-Statesman
http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/realestate/02/06/6postoffice.html

REAL ESTATE
2 condo high-rises included in downtown post office redevelopment
Downtown residential building boom continues, but some begin to wonder about a glut.

By Shonda Novak
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF


Tuesday, February 06, 2007

More high-rise living is planned for downtown.

Two mixed-use towers with more than 900 condominiums are scheduled to be built, including a 35-story complex that will provide a new home for the downtown post office.

The projects come amid a residential building boom downtown. And although some people have raised concerns about potential overbuilding, developers say demand continues to outpace supply.

Atlanta-based Novare Group Holdings and its Austin-based partner, Andrews Urban LLC, plan to break ground on the first high-rise this fall. It will have about 400 condominiums in a tower at Sixth and Nueces streets connected to a new two-story postal facility at Fifth and San Antonio streets. The post office will have about 25,000 square feet, with about 13,000 on the ground floor.

The post office would open in 2008. The residential tower, which would include ground-floor retail space, would open in the fall of 2009. The site is now a parking lot adjacent to Miller Blueprint Co.

After the post office moves into the new building, the developers plan to start construction on a second high-rise at the former postal site across San Antonio Street. It would be a tower with about 40 stories and more than 500 condos. It would have more than 100 hotel rooms and and more than 25,000 square feet of ground-floor retail space. That tower is expected to open in the fall of 2010.

The new high-rises, along with a 44-story condo tower that Novare/Andrews Urban is building, would make the company downtown's largest residential developer.

The two post office-related projects combined are expected to add about $300 million to the city's tax base. Retail customers in both projects will be charged for parking. Developers have not decided whether there will be public parking as well.

The new post office site will include a seven-story parking garage, with one level of shared parking for post office and retail customers, and the rest for the condo residents. Post office parking would be free.

The U.S. Postal Service chose Novare/Andrews Urban in August through a competition to redevelop its downtown site at Fifth and Guadalupe streets. Mayor Will Wynn and many local developers have long said the site is underused, with a 1 1/2-story post office occupying 76,000 square feet of a prime downtown block.

"I'm really pleased that Novare Group and Andrews Urban are delivering on the vision of a far more vibrant and urban environment in this part of downtown," Wynn said in a statement.

Mike Wolfe of the U.S. Postal Service said the government is pleased with the initial designs.

The post office and 35-story condo tower will occupy three-quarters of a city block that Novare/Andrews Urban bought in December. The site originally was to have an office tower that Intel Corp. planned as the second phase of a chip-design facility it started but left unfinished during the tech bust of 2001.

Both new towers will need city zoning variances for higher-density projects. The developers plan to incorporate city guidelines for wider streets, with tree-lined sidewalks, benches and bicycle racks.

The condo units in both towers are expected to be priced comparably to Novare/Andrew Urban's other project, called 360, being built at Third and Nueces. That tower, with 430 condominiums, is scheduled to open in May 2008. Prices are expected to range from $190,000 to $550,000, with unit sizes from 785 to 1,638 square feet. Sizes in the new towers are expected to be similar.

With at least 16 residential projects being built or planned downtown, developers say demand is especially keen for buildings with more moderately priced units. And Novare/Andrews Urban says it will provide them.

Taylor Andrews, president of Andrews Urban, declined to say how many people are on 360's list of prospective buyers but said demand has "far exceeded expectations."

But developers of another downtown residential high-rise, who planned to keep prices at levels similar to Novare's, are finding out how challenging that is.

The historically high cost of land downtown and sharply rising costs of construction materials and labor are pushing up prices at the 41-story Spring condominium tower, set for groundbreaking soon at Third and Bowie streets.

Spring's developers, Robert Barnstone, Diana Zuniga and Perry Lorenz, had hoped to price units from $200,000 to $400,000. Now, those prices have jumped to about $235,000 for a one-bedroom condo with about 600 square feet and to the mid-$450,000s for a two-bedroom unit with about 1,100 square feet, Barnstone said.

The developers have added some larger three-bedroom penthouse units, which initially will be priced in the mid-$700,000s, he said.

Barnstone says plumbing, electrical and other subcontractors are in short supply in Austin. So, the contractor is having to recruit electricians from Florida. Also, the building's extensive windows are costing twice as much as originally budgeted, he said.

Houston-based Metrostudy, which tracks the housing market, said developers started 728 downtown condo units in 2006.

Three condo high-rises — the 360, Spring and the Shore condominiums — are under construction downtown.

"This will be a telling year in the downtown condo market as those three projects begin to convert their unit reservations into actual contracts to purchase," said Eldon Rude, director of the Austin office of Metrostudy.

Local real estate consultant Charles Heimsath said demand for residential units downtown "is very strong, and many people will be interested in purchasing units at the Novare projects due to their lower prices and central location near office towers and the Warehouse District."

Barnstone said he isn't worried about a downtown condo glut. Spring's marketing center, which opened in mid-December, is taking, on average, two reservations a day for its 240-unit project and has about 780 potential buyers interested in reserving a unit, he said.

"While some may think we are building too much too soon, I suggest the opposite is true," Barnstone said. "We are in the first inning of a very exciting ballgame. When the reality of Austin's new downtown takes shape, people that never thought they would want to live downtown will reconsider. In fact, I predict that downtown development will be the new engine of growth for Austin."
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 6:09 AM
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Spring is under downtown construction? I havent seen it. Am I missing something?
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 6:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveattheOasis View Post
Spring is under downtown construction? I havent seen it. Am I missing something?
I don't believe it's started yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The article
The historically high cost of land downtown and sharply rising costs of construction materials and labor are pushing up prices at the 41-story Spring condominium tower, set for groundbreaking soon at Third and Bowie streets.
Wasn't it supposed to start in March?
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 6:56 AM
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Originally Posted by LiveattheOasis View Post
Spring is under downtown construction? I havent seen it. Am I missing something?
Yes. It's being constructed six blocks north of its originally proposed location.










Just kidding. It is slated to break ground in March.
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AUSTIN (City): 1,002,632 +4.64% - '20-'25 | AUSTIN MSA (5 counties): 2,620,945 +14.78% - '20-'25
SAN ANTONIO (City): 1,548,422 +8.03% - '20-'25 | SAN ANTONIO MSA (8 counties): 2,813,140 +9.97% - '20-'25
AUS-SAT REGION (MSAs/13 counties): 5,434,085 +12.24% - '20-'25 | *SRC: US Census*
     
     
  #98  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 4:02 PM
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Does anyone have an update on Spring? I rode by the site a couple of days ago and the current buildings are still intact and still seem to be full of their occupants.

Last I heard suggested was a February groundbreaking... that seems unlikely now.
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  #99  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
Does anyone have an update on Spring? I rode by the site a couple of days ago and the current buildings are still intact and still seem to be full of their occupants.

Last I heard suggested was a February groundbreaking... that seems unlikely now.

Groundbreaking = March 2007
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AUSTIN (City): 1,002,632 +4.64% - '20-'25 | AUSTIN MSA (5 counties): 2,620,945 +14.78% - '20-'25
SAN ANTONIO (City): 1,548,422 +8.03% - '20-'25 | SAN ANTONIO MSA (8 counties): 2,813,140 +9.97% - '20-'25
AUS-SAT REGION (MSAs/13 counties): 5,434,085 +12.24% - '20-'25 | *SRC: US Census*
     
     
  #100  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 9:52 PM
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It looks like the Intel shell will officially bite the dust...and makes some!

It'll be imploded on February 25. That's on a Sunday and it'll be at 7 am.
Click on the link below to see a photo gallery, including construction pictures, of the Intel shell.
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/photos/02/020707_intel.html


From the Austin American-Statesman
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/business/stories/realestate/02/7intel.html

DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT
Intel shell to be imploded Feb. 25
Federal courthouse will replace failed project.


AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Tuesday, February 06, 2007

The unfinished Intel Corp. building will go out with a bang — literally — on Feb. 25.

The federal General Services Administration said Tuesday that a contractor will implode the downtown building at 7 that Sunday morning.

It will cost $1.3 million to demolish the building.

Intel once planned a design center downtown, but abandoned the project during the tech downturn in 2001.

It will be replaced by a $65 million federal courthouse with 211,690 square feet.
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Last edited by KevinFromTexas; Feb 6, 2007 at 10:06 PM.
     
     
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