Development Rumours

[Haliguy]

I noticed when driving by Dartmouth Crossing today that there's a new construction crane up. Does anyone know what is? I'm thinking its probably a hotel but not sure.

[Jonovision]

If it's located right next to the theatre, then it is the hotel. I think it's gonna be 8 stories tall.

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I noticed when driving by Dartmouth Crossing today that there's a new construction crane up. Does anyone know what is? I'm thinking its probably a hotel but not sure.

Yep its a hotel. Its the Marriott at DC. I think its either 6 or 8 stories.

[The_Bow]

Does anyone have a list of projects currently under construction and planned? We had one on the forum before the restructuring.

[The_Bow]

Building permits decline in Halifax
NOVEMBER 13, 2007 According to information recently released by Statistics Canada the value of building permits issued in Halifax decreased 31.6% from August 2007 to September 2007, dropping from $82.6m to $56.5m. The decrease was largely attributed to declines in multi-family permits and non-residential permits.

Halifax was not the only Canadian city to experience a drop in permits. All four Atlantic Provinces incurred double digit declines in the dollar amount of residential building permits issued.

Throughout Canada the largest declines in the value of building permits issued occurred in Quebec (-9.6%) and British Columbia (-9.8%), also blamed on a drop in multi-family permits.

On a positive note, the figures released did show a slight 4.8% increase in building permits issued in Halifax between January and September 2007 when compared with the same period in 2006. This increase was, however, well below that experienced by neighboring cities. Moncton had a 19.6% increase and Saint John a 27.1% increase over the same period.

-MARK BOLTON, Square Feet

[someone123]

Relative figures like that are extremely misleading. There are constant fluctuations month to month and they give you no information when it comes to the starting point.

If city A goes from $100M of construction to $50M it is down 50%. If city B goes from $5M to $10M it's up by 100%.

There are some problems in Halifax (anti-development regulation, botched immigration) but the economic fundamentals seem pretty good. Employment in Halifax grew by 2.6% from 2006-2007, for example. That either will tend to mean equivalent population growth or greater per capita wealth.

[Haliguy]

The immigration program may have been botched but the last census shows that immigration in Halifax is on the rise.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Anybody have any new pics of any developments under construction? If so, post them in their respective thread.

[skyscraper_1]

Downtown Halifax height limits major concern.

By Roger Taylor
Sat. Nov 17 - 4:47 AM

IF YOU are a developer, it doesn’t matter how impressive your architectural plans are or how much your project will improve the local economy; you’ll still be out of luck if you want to put up a building higher than seven storeys within a prime section of downtown Halifax under a new scenario being proposed.

The people who are driving the HRM by Design planning process have decided that the bulk of Area 2, which runs from Brunswick Street to the waterfront and George Street to Spring Garden Road, will be designated a heritage conservation district. That means all but two sites, which are exceptions because they’re considered to be within the "view shadow" of the so-called Twisted Sisters development, will be governed by the low-rise development restrictions. Those two highrise sites, owned by the province and the Waterfront Development Corp., would be allowed to accommodate buildings as high as 16 storeys.

This whole issue is troublesome to some Halifax landowners and developers who are concerned the city’s proposal will endanger future development, drive away potential sources of lucrative jobs and drive down the value of their real estate investments.

While private developers are putting their own capital at risk by acquiring property and making building plans on their own dime, designating government-owned properties as the only land to accommodate buildings higher than 16 storeys suddenly makes those properties more valuable.

City staff says there may be height restrictions, but the trade-off is a speedier development process and certainty. Downtown development projects are now negotiated on a piecemeal basis, which is often accompanied by an extensive appeal process that drags out the time it takes to get a structure built.

Admittedly, most of the business people concerned by the tone of the HRM by Design "preferred scenario" are those who own property in that part of the downtown. It seems that other developers, who might not have a direct interest in that area, are more willing to endorse strict height limits; perhaps there is some gamesmanship among those within the local development community.

In previous scenarios, building heights would be limited to a maximum of six storeys. But after doing some double-checking, city staff said it now estimates downtown Halifax will need an additional 200,000 square feet of office space each year for the next 15 years. So it was decided to add another storey to the height limit, which in theory increases downtown density without denying some people’s desire for low-rise restrictions in the heritage area.

The HRM by Design "staff team" presented its case for a preferred scenario on Friday and will unveil an updated plan at a public meeting tentatively scheduled for Nov. 28.

Austin French, manager of planning services for the city, says the primary purpose of HRM by Design is to create more interest in the downtown.

"We’re all for people enjoying their property; we want everyone to succeed," he says. "But it’s more than height; it’s about having the right feeling in downtown to make people want to come there."

But it seems to me that developers in that part of the city will be put under more onerous restrictions than their counterparts in other downtown areas. French says that when the HRM by Design plan for the downtown is approved, the next step is to create design standards for future buildings, as well as specifying height and mass.

"In every municipal context there are regulations regarding development," he says. "The message we’re getting from the development industry is what we’re lacking here is clarity and certainty."

Rather than making things more complicated, French says, staff is trying to create "the right feel" for the downtown area with a much clearer set of regulations. "This plan is meant to facilitate growth; it is meant to facilitate development, to make things easier for the landowners and the developer than they are today, to make it easier to understand what the community expects of them so that we can get along."

Stephen Lund, CEO of Nova Scotia Business Inc., says he’s theoretically in favour of HRM by Design because it’s supposed to speed up the development process, but he’s afraid the plan seems to be restricting investment in the downtown.

"The people who are going to build buildings. . . . Those are the guys you’ve got to listen to because those are the guys that will take the chance and the risk and put money into it," Lund said Friday. "We’ve got to listen to the pro forces and not just the anti forces. Let’s talk to the 2,000 young 25- to 30-year-olds who want to work in downtown Halifax and ask them what they think."

Lund said there is potential for about 2,000 young people to get good jobs with financial services companies that want to set up downtown. Heritage is important, he said, but there has to be compromise to allow for development to meet the needs of new clients coming to the area.

"Show me a city that’s not growing and I’ll show you a city that’s dying. I’m thinking, ‘OK, the next 20 years is not my generation’s. It’s the next generation’s and the generation’s after that.’ That’s who’s going to drive our city," he said. "I get passionate about this because I’m concerned we’re going to miss an opportunity to move this city forward that doesn’t come along very often."

I suspect many of the people who are concerned about highrise buildings and maintaining downtown Halifax heritage don’t come downtown very often anymore. Walk around and you’ll notice vacant lots, empty storefronts, ugly newer buildings and an increasingly unsavoury atmosphere, particularly after the pubs close at night.

Why can’t a modern Halifax include a mixture of taller buildings with low-rise and heritage structures with modern ones?

( rtaylor@herald.ca)
http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Columnists/985453.html

A few mentioned that they did not like Roger Taylor's column, but I usually enjoy what he has to say.

[someone123]

That article makes things out to be a little worse than they are because it ignores the interchange lands. Those won't be available anytime soon but then again the current group of projects will take a while to complete.

That being said, I doubt that the HRM by Design process is that in touch with the needs of businesses and developers and it is terrible to have the downtown in perpetual planning limbo.

Barrington's also in limbo right now because of the potential future heritage district. There might be incentives in a year or two so nobody is bothering to invest in buildings along the street now.

Halifax is run a bit like a Third World dictatorship.

[Haliguy]

Here's a pic of the Walkerton Condo development.




Apartment building under construction on South St.




This is one of many buildings being constructed on the top of the hill above Fairview.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

I'm not sure I'd be against some of the proposed height restrictions in parts of the downtown. One reason we see so little development in downtown is because most of the land is worth a small fortune. The reason it's worth so much is because everyone feels that if they are outside the viewplanes they can take a shot at a big project. If you think you can put a twenty storey tower on a piece of land than you'll pay a pretty good price for it. United Gulf wouldn't have put up $5 million plus for the Tex Park site if they could only have built to eight stories. The price of land in downtown Halifax is inflated because people are buying with the expectation of putting up towers.

How many towers can Halifax support? Probably not a whole lot, even if we speed up the aproval process the market probably isn't big enough to support a lot of huge projects. Tex Park is pretty ambitious, as is the Brewery Market. How long will it take to fill in the huge holes in downtown if we encourage these kinds of development? A lot longer than if the height limit is eight or ten storeys (I do think seven is too low), the price of land drops, and smaller projects are economical. Personally I'd like to see four projects like W Suites in the downtown than one twenty storey tower.

[someone123]

Well, there's not much land left in the downtown area, and it's not really clear where the downtown could grow in the future since according to the HRM by Design plan most neighbourhoods should be left alone.

The other big issue is whether or not these small buildings actually meet the needs of potential companies. Major companies need lots of space and large floorplates. W Suites is built on a nice scale but it's residential, not an office building.

I am not sure that is a real problem but I dislike the idea of trying to guess ahead of time what the "needs" of the downtown will be. Nobody knows and if they get it wrong there will be serious problems akin to what is happening now in some older buildings that are crippled by poor regulation and sit half-empty. I would prefer a more market-driven system similar to what we have now but with a much faster turnaround time.

Anyway, the South Street building should be decent. The Waterton crane looks surprisingly large.

[worldlyhaligonian]

[QUOTE=Haliguy;3175483]Here's a pic of the Walkerton Condo development.




What is the building to the immediate left of the crane? What about the one being built further back?

[Wishblade]

[QUOTE=worldlyhaligonian;3176776]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Here's a pic of the Walkerton Condo development.




What is the building to the immediate left of the crane? What about the one being built further back?

Their both just random condo buildings going up for the Mount Royal development.

[skyscraper_1]

Any idea what the South Street development will look like?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by skyscraper_1

Any idea what the South Street development will look like?

Rumour has it that the building was designed by Kassner Goodspeed architects. Combine that with the Armour Group as being the developer and i would expect it to be a good looking building.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Originally Posted by someone123

Well, there's not much land left in the downtown area, and it's not really clear where the downtown could grow in the future since according to the HRM by Design plan most neighbourhoods should be left alone.

The other big issue is whether or not these small buildings actually meet the needs of potential companies. Major companies need lots of space and large floorplates. W Suites is built on a nice scale but it's residential, not an office building.

I am not sure that is a real problem but I dislike the idea of trying to guess ahead of time what the "needs" of the downtown will be. Nobody knows and if they get it wrong there will be serious problems akin to what is happening now in some older buildings that are crippled by poor regulation and sit half-empty. I would prefer a more market-driven system similar to what we have now but with a much faster turnaround time.

Anyway, the South Street building should be decent. The Waterton crane looks surprisingly large.

Personally I don't agree with the idea that we should be preserving neighbourhoods untouched. Some neighbourhoods yes, but probably not to the extent HRMbyDesign is proposing. Neighbourhoods change that's part of what makes cities exciting.

I think there is a significant amount of land downtown. Waterfront, south end of Hollis, numerous lots around the Herald building. And of course Cogswell. I understand we need to allow for two different building types: commercial and residential. That's one reason I think height in Cogswell has so much potential to fill a lot of the financial needs. As it stands Cogswell doesn't provide the immediate needs, however there are two development agreements signed and ready to go for office towers in the area which one imagines would address the short term needs.

The other thing is that not all office space needed downtown is necessarily Class-A; if you build an eight storey tower with a smaller floorplate you might fill the needs of smaller consulting firms, lawyers, insurance agents, etc. that want to be downtown but don't have the same needs as the bigger financial companies that want Purdy's Wharf types of developments. The Class A space isn't the only market.

Where can downtown grow? I think with Cogswell gone the north-end is the prime area. Lots of space around Cogswell and Gottingen, on Gottingen, directly on Barrington near Cornwallis. You wouldn't see the banking towers in this area but a lot of residential could fill in this area. There is already some activity such as the Brickyards which one assumes caters to the downtown office workers.

[DuffMan]

"I'm not sure I'd be against some of the proposed height restrictions in parts of the downtown. One reason we see so little development in downtown is because most of the land is worth a small fortune. The reason it's worth so much is because everyone feels that if they are outside the viewplanes they can take a shot at a big project. If you think you can put a twenty storey tower on a piece of land than you'll pay a pretty good price for it. United Gulf wouldn't have put up $5 million plus for the Tex Park site if they could only have built to eight stories. The price of land in downtown Halifax is inflated because people are buying with the expectation of putting up towers."


I don't think I agree with this. All developers are aware of the risk of trying to have any building of any height approved in the downtown core. Look at the original Brewery proposal as well as the Midtown as recent examples. When United Gulf purchased the site for $5 million, they were well aware that their proposal was risky and not assured of being approved. If they thought that they had a good chance of being approved from the get go, they would have been willing to purchase it for much more than $5 mil. Same goes for any other site downtown. The more certainty you have of your proposal being approved, the less risk and therefore the more you would be willing to pay, all things being equal.

I think that the city is better off with the HRM by Design proposals than the status quo. I am frustrated with the city council. They spend months debating a cat bi-law, and when it is finally passed, one of the councillors (I think it was Sloan) proposes removing cats from the bilaw.. Meanwhile, Barrington Street Heritage designation is still in limbo - resulting in many properties not being renovated while they wait for funding, the Cogswell interchange, the lack of stadium, building height uncertainty, etc, etc. I hope that next year we get some decent contenders for the city election. Mayor Flanders, I mean Kelly, has got to go!

[someone123]

Land values in downtown Halifax are expensive for Halifax but not expensive on a national scale and probably not where they could be. There's no question that the uncertainty and delays surrounding any new proposals are depressing land values. That lot on Hollis would have been worth way more than $5M if it were known ahead of time that a $150M tower could be built there (another case where the HRM loses out from their own stupidity, I guess).

I agree that council is terrible. I hope many of them are replaced in the next election with people who actually have an appreciation for what the real issues are and what can be accomplished in Halifax.