Saskatoon Construction III

[Echoes]

I'm sorta of two minds on skywalks.

I fully agree with Macca that they are detrimental to the public realm. But I also know how *nice* it is to traverse the U of S campus in winter through their system of tunnels and skywalks.

But skywalks are not only detrimental to the public realm for removing pedestrians from the street (people may descend from the convenience of the skywalk system in nice weather, they may not). It's also the effect the physical structures have on the actual street outside. They clutter up views and vistas (imagine one blocking our view of the Bess down 21st St), and makes spaces below and around them foreboding. I want my streets to be open and airy above my head, except for the streetwall of buildings on either side. Have you been in the heart of Calgary's downtown and felt how the tall buildings and criss-cross of skywalks feels on some streets? It's not pleasant. Now, Saskatoon will never get there ever, even if we allowed skywalks. But maybe we're better off if we just focused on making our streets more comfortable, sheltered, and inviting in the winter? Awnings, canopies, windbreaks, heated sidewalks, etc. It's not like we have a cohesive network of office buildings that would make stringing them together with a skywalk system worthwhile anyway.

[Echoes]

Actually, maybe I'm not of two minds. No to skywalks.

Haha.

[Ricopedra]

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[roryn1]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Actually, maybe I'm not of two minds. No to skywalks.

Haha.

Ok let's be clear I come from a farm, hauled grain in the winter when trucks don't start, fought with snow wind and ice. When I moved to Saskatoon the skywalks at the university blew my mind. 99% of students use them in the winter, and with school mainly being in the winter, and having classes 20 minutes walking distance from each other, without the skywalks I would have transferred in my 2nd year. I've spent enough time freezing my ears off this life, and in the summer, the skywalks at campus are utilized for the bare minimum because the U of s campus is so beautiful outside just like our downtown. Now that I live and work downtown it is the same thing, but I am so sick of winter. Even if a better transit system came to town and had buses every ten minutes it is painful to sit and wait even minutes for buses and wait for streetlights on -20 blizzarding days. I will most likely be moving from this city for work in the long run because I am tired of being exposed to the winter life. I love skating, skiing, all the winter amenities, but commuting to work in -20 weather getting sweaty in a big jacket, soaked shoes/having to wear larger boots just to walk to work.... not in my long term plan. At the U of S I and many other students would take 20 minutes in the skywalks to get from one side of campus to the other for classes versus 10 outside in the winter, and that's how I plan on getting to work if I end up living and working downtown in windy Toronto or also cold Calgary in the long term. I can't believe how much people are against skywalks on here. It's half the reason why executives at companies don't want to move here. Let's keep these people away from the elements in the winter. There is no secret to making winter nice, it sucks and it's why Saskatoon has no people because this city is one of the prettiest in North America in the summers.

[macca]

skywalks
pros: they keep affluent people warm for part of the year
cons: literally everything else

[roryn1]

Originally Posted by macca

skywalks
pros: they keep affluent people warm for part of the year
cons: literally everything else

I'm too broke in student debt to be affluent macca

Also coming from someone that worked and lived downtown in Winnipeg for a few years - I'd say people there would not be too happy if their 5km skywalk started getting dismantled (maybe other winnipegers reading this thread can back me up). Everyone I met there loves their skywalk. I loved it so much - and still took every opportunity to go outside on nice summer days to get that vitamin D - Portage and Main is bumpin with activity in the summer. For the cold days in the winter, windy/rainy days in the summer, the opportunity to grab a bite farther than the close vicinity 365 days of the year... we need them here so badly ☹️

[casper]

Originally Posted by roryn1

Ok let's be clear I come from a farm, hauled grain in the winter when trucks don't start, fought with snow wind and ice. When I moved to Saskatoon the skywalks at the university blew my mind. 99% of students use them in the winter, and with school mainly being in the winter, and having classes 20 minutes walking distance from each other, without the skywalks I would have transferred in my 2nd year. I've spent enough time freezing my ears off this life, and in the summer, the skywalks at campus are utilized for the bare minimum because the U of s campus is so beautiful outside just like our downtown. Now that I live and work downtown it is the same thing, but I am so sick of winter. Even if a better transit system came to town and had buses every ten minutes it is painful to sit and wait even minutes for buses and wait for streetlights on -20 blizzarding days. I will most likely be moving from this city for work in the long run because I am tired of being exposed to the winter life. I love skating, skiing, all the winter amenities, but commuting to work in -20 weather getting sweaty in a big jacket, soaked shoes/having to wear larger boots just to walk to work.... not in my long term plan. At the U of S I and many other students would take 20 minutes in the skywalks to get from one side of campus to the other for classes versus 10 outside in the winter, and that's how I plan on getting to work if I end up living and working downtown in windy Toronto or also cold Calgary in the long term. I can't believe how much people are against skywalks on here. It's half the reason why executives at companies don't want to move here. Let's keep these people away from the elements in the winter. There is no secret to making winter nice, it sucks and it's why Saskatoon has no people because this city is one of the prettiest in North America in the summers.

Never understood why people move from Saskatoon to Toronto or Calgary. Vancouver and Victoria are much better fits. Saskatoon like winter conditions would result in the declaration of natural disaster. The military would need to be mobilized to deal with the snow. Out here snow belongs on the ski hills, infiltration into the cities is simply not tolerated.

[roryn1]

Originally Posted by casper

Never understood why people move from Saskatoon to Toronto or Calgary. Vancouver and Victoria are much better fits. Saskatoon like winter conditions would result in the declaration of natural disaster. The military would need to be mobilized to deal with the snow. Out here snow belongs on the ski hills, infiltration into the cities is simply not tolerated.

I'd say 80% of the time it's not a choice but to follow work

[Brutopian]

Originally Posted by scotty c

I drove by where the Browns in Kensington was supposed to go last weekend. The Windows all have For Sublease signs in them. Browns expansion west is a no go. Thankfully Popeyes will be opening in a few months. Something to look forward to.

Any idea where Popeyes is opening in Saskatoon?

Looks like Popeyes has been attracting quite the line-ups in Calgary.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...tion-1.3910106

[hunter12]

As someone who has worked downtown for 32 years I would love some skywalks starting with Scotia Centre to Midtown. I love to get out and walk at lunch and do so when the weather is nice. But when the weather is crappy I stay in the office. Businesses don't get a dime from me when the weather is crappy. Pros - it gets people more active, it gets people out of the office and spending money at businesses downtown, etc.

[scotty c]

Originally Posted by Brutopian

Any idea where Popeyes is opening in Saskatoon?

Looks like Popeyes has been attracting quite the line-ups in Calgary.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...tion-1.3910106

The strip mall in Kensington across the parking lot from the new Save On Foods.

http://www.dream.ca/centres/wp-conte...Kensington.pdf

[Jimmy James]

First of all, I'm with Macca and Echoes on this - not a fan of skywalks, generally.

I could see a link from Scotia Centre to Midtown, and Midtown to the Scotia Bank theatre. However, the layout of our downtown and the way our office buildings are dispersed doesn't currently allow for the construction of many skywalks.

Our small buildings on second and third avenues are not made to accommodate skywalks and I would hate to see a skywalk across either of those streets. The buildings on fourth avenue like the Federated building, Saskatoon Square, the MNP building, and the Sturdy Stone Centre could be connected, but for what? Parking? There is no food court or indoor gathering space on that side of the downtown to justify it.

For the main downtown office buildings to be connected, it would likely need to be similar to Winnipeg with a series of tunnels in addition to skywalks. Perhaps when (if) North Prairie builds on their property between 3rd and 4th and if someone would build an office building on the lot on the corner of 22nd and 3rd beside the Drinkle No. 3, both sides could be linked up. It would also require a significant investment from taxpayers for something like this, which is something I can't see happening.

[roryn1]

Originally Posted by Jimmy James

First of all, I'm with Macca and Echoes on this - not a fan of skywalks, generally.

I agree there isn't any clear routes so portions would probably not be skywalks but underground tunnels like Winnipegs http://downtownwinnipegbiz.com/wp-co...y_map_2013.pdf but I think there is a huge opportunity to connect the downtown either above ground or below ground(especially with the possibility of a new Convention/Stadium in the next one to two decades). Again, the U of S is a great example with tunnels that makes the difference of students wanting to go to school here or not - especially when the school has a high population of international students that haven't (nor have good words about) experienced our cold winters. The new tunnel they just opened about two years ago connecting Health Sciences/Gordon Oakes Red Bear Center, and Place Ariel is almost dead in the summers as most student walk outside, but is highly highly utilized in the winter or rainy/windy days. Now that I'm no longer a student but in business downtown, why can't we also get this type of access in the downtown? In the suburban business development, it's rare to not park straight from your front door and you drive to lunch spots. There are employees that park three or four blocks away for work to save on parking costs downtown (example, I know staff at Canpotex in the ScotiaCenter who park at Midtown Mall underground because Canpotex has run out of parking space underground), but walk around all of downtown for so many things (drinks, renewing plates, eye appointments, haircuts, etc..). I know when it's cold/raining/windy out, I just go to work, maybe cancel my lunch plans with coworkers at other offices because I don't want to go walk 3 blocks to my favourite restaurant, and go home. There is huge economic opportunity to connect the downtown with skywalks and tunnels to push more activity out of the people that are already there. I think that is worthwhile taxpayer investment and would offer a nice economic return. If all you guys are just against skywalks because of aesthetics, tunnels are more than fine?

[saskatoonborn]

Well roryn I think we will have to conceed a loss. I agree that skywalks (and tunnels) would make getting around easier during parts of the year and maybe create some economic opportunities its unlikely to happen anytime soon. Maybe in 2 decades if/when we have a new downtown stadium, Riverlanding,River Centre 2 and the WTC are all built it will be time to start thinking about it harder. To sum up Jimmy's post we just are not there yet and to force it into existance would greatly detract from the charactor of our downtown.

[roryn1]

Never a loss! I think we need to plan this now for when we have those buildings in 20 years and as far as I can find urban planners in the city haven't really considered it much. To me as a citizen living and working downtown this makes more sense to me than spending on transit to bring more business downtown.

Another great example is Toronto's Path system http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/co...0071d60f89RCRD

[Ricopedra]

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[Jimmy James]

Originally Posted by roryn1

To me as a citizen living and working downtown this makes more sense to me than spending on transit to bring more business downtown.

Our transit system is a disaster and it is much higher on the priority list. It will go hand-in-hand with the development of a downtown arena. After spending a few hundred-million on these areas, perhaps some tunnels can be considered.

I think it's far too early to start planning for an underground tunnel or skywalk system when the key components have yet to be built. Having a ready-made or pre-planned skywalk system isn't going to attract businesses downtown - vibrant street-level businesses have far more economic sway. And a few parkades wouldn't hurt, either - perhaps a decent park-and-ride system could be considered.

We also need to undo the damage of the past 20-30 years of horrible administration that allowed for the development of millions of square feet of office space in the periphery of the city. Had we not had to suffer through the Dayday/Atchison era of outward expansion and kowtowing to overzealous housing developers, we may have a few links built downtown already.

I understand where you're coming from, but our downtown just isn't there. I think it's more than 20 years away from looking at this kind of development.

[Ricopedra]

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[Jimmy James]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

I don't think anyone's asking for skywalks to a three story building. Obviously, they go hand in hand, or building to building, with blossoming density. Take it easy, y'all, for you'll see them coming, like 'em or not.

I don't mind them in the right place. If I saw a few across 4th Ave or 1st Ave, I would be fine with it. But it would not look good on 2nd and 21st where aesthetics are important, all year round.

I think you just answered your original rant here. We don't have more skywalks and an indoor pedestrian system because we lack the density downtown. And there are several reasons we lack density - see my post above for some.

[Brutopian]

Originally Posted by scotty c

The strip mall in Kensington across the parking lot from the new Save On Foods.

http://www.dream.ca/centres/wp-conte...Kensington.pdf

Thanks, Scotty c! Much appreciated.