AUSTIN | ABIA Updates

[Major AWACS]

I am not sure what random non factual points you are trying to make here but you are once again incorrect.

The US Mexican bilateral air agreement only allows 2 airlines from each country to fly between most cities in each country so Viva could only choose San Antonio or Austin as Dallas and Houston are full.

What do you mean Houston is full? We have Ellington... And why is this aggrement enacted? We need more airlines between Mexico and USA, this is so clear and obvious.

The US and Mexico, as the US does with many countries, has a bilateral air agreement. There is no open skies. Open skies means you can fly wherever you want. many include 5th freedom and 6th freedom rights on routes.
Ellington Field and Hobby are part of Houston and fall under the same rules.

The US-Mexico bilateral only allows two airlines from each country to fly on most city pair routes. There is not enough O/D demand for medium haul airliner on a daily route from most Mexican cities to Texas. The bilateral is being revamped but Open skies are not coming soon.

Viva could not fly from say Houston to Monterrey because Aeromexico and Aviacsa fly it from the US side, With Continental on the US side. A US flagged carrier could fly the route, and Mexican one could not.

Ellington field has a small terminal, CO Express used it for years with hop flights to IAH. IN Fact Houston was the only US city with intra city limit flights on fixed wing aircraft, for nearly Two decades.

Guys in Ellington told me that if any company approaches them with a promise of terminal they will not charge a dime per customer. They also said Viva did not approach them.

Again, Ellington Field has a small terminal. If you are as "familar" with the airport as you say you should know this. Co Express used it for years on the "Houston Express" route to IAH. It is near the old tower SE of the 147 FW ramp. Viva did not approach them because the couldn't fly main routes to Mexico and it was a horrid business plan.

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Here is what I do not understand. The airline industry in Mexico is exploding. There are almost 15 airline companies in Mexico at this moment. Once they got familiar with the business and make profits, they will start looking new destinations to expand business and make more money. US is the first destination that comes into mind and Houston and LA are the 2 cities that they will want to fly first for obvious reasons.

While I disagree with your overly basic analysis of Mexican aviation (go to Airliners.net or Flyertalk.com for some basic reading) as I noted above the US Mexican treaty will not allow most of those flights you wish for.

Third, you can fly from numerous tiny cities in the north and west to Mexico for dirt cheap whenever there is sale. Just an example is Sipirit Air and another one is Airtran and many others. They have sales as low as $5-$10 and even you add the tax, the round trip cost less than 100 bucks. There are no such airlines in the southern cities.

Those fare bucket sales are only for roughly 10-15% of the seats on those flights. Businessmen and even many VFR-visiting friends and relatives don't travel like you discuss above. The CASM and RASM on flights from these markets does not allow the flights you wish for.

Fourth, caribbean countries are so close to both mexico and US, this will be an opportunity for airlines flying between US and mexico because it is so close to the route.

This makes no sense at all. Caribbean traffic is well covered from Miami, Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte and Dallas the big hubs for Carib traffic. No one would fly via Mexico to the Caribbean, it addes hours to the flight, a connection meaning moremissed bags and delays and doesn't save money.

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One day this vacuum will be filled. I still can not believe that there is an aggreement that restricts number of airlines flying between US and Mexico. It takes only 2 hrs and 15 minutes to fly from Houston to Cancun and yet there is only one or two airlines flying and cheapest is $500. This is crazy. This should not happen in a country praising itself all the time with free enterprise and competition. Something is definitely wrong in here.

Well write your congressman to change it. Until this coming March, the Bermuda II agreement limited flights from the US to London Heathrow meaning Houston couldn't have direct flights to LHR only Gatwick, causing many missed oil connections. Starting in March Houston will get 4 daily flights to London with the new rules. Aviation rules are complex.

Take a look at any vacation package deals from Dallas and Houston to Mexico and you will notice that Dallas is by far cheaper than Houston. I wonder why. Something is really wrong with airline services from Houston. What makes Dallas cheaper than us to a destination which Houston is closer.
Gotta hate continental

Actual the vacation packages you mention are not "always" cheaper from Dallas and this (vacation deal pricing) has nothing to do with Continental.
There is a reason, Continental makes money, is constantly ranked #1 US airline for customer service and provides excellent international connections from Houston. In fact Houston actually has some of the lowest air fares in the country.

I hate to break it to you but you cannot fly everywhere you want for 200$ roundtrip each time. That is not how it works. Oil is up, landing fees and airport fees are up and the airlines have to make a profit for shareholders. The true cost of CASM will be passed on to consumers.



The Bureau of Transporation stats at BTS.gov is great place to start research and learning about such things, as are the websites I noted above...

Ciao,
AWACS

[Major AWACS]

Originally Posted by arbeiter

Can anyone explain to me why a shuttle from Ellington Field to IAH was ever successful? Traffic has never been bad enough that an hour or 2 hour drive (at the very, very worst) would not be better than a flight.

It was succesful for years and was normally free!!
Free parking, no drive across town, 500 One pass miles for a 20 mile flight, quick security.

Ciao,
AWACS

[misterno]

Capt AWACS

Thanks so much for all the information. I have to admit I am just getting to learn these things.

There is one thing I want to add though. The reason there is a bilateral aggreement limiting 2 airlines per country flying to each other is that; Mexico used to be very weak in terms of number and quality of airline service. So Mexican officials did not want giant US airline companies to conquer airline service between 2 countries. I read this somewhere on the internet but please correct me if I am wrong.

Now as for today there are over 15 airlines operating in Mexico. Hopefully Mesican officials will take this into account there will be more airline companies allowed to fly between 2 countries.

But until then I am stuck with the muddy waters of Galveston. God, I am missing the blue and clear waters and fresh delicious food of a third world country. It is 2 hrs flight but yet costs arm and leg. I hate these bilateral aggreement crap.

[Major AWACS]

Originally Posted by misterno

Capt AWACS

Thanks so much for all the information. I have to admit I am just getting to learn these things.

There is one thing I want to add though. The reason there is a bilateral aggreement limiting 2 airlines per country flying to each other is that; Mexico used to be very weak in terms of number and quality of airline service. So Mexican officials did not want giant US airline companies to conquer airline service between 2 countries. I read this somewhere on the internet but please correct me if I am wrong.

Now as for today there are over 15 airlines operating in Mexico. Hopefully Mesican officials will take this into account there will be more airline companies allowed to fly between 2 countries.

But until then I am stuck with the muddy waters of Galveston. God, I am missing the blue and clear waters and fresh delicious food of a third world country. It is 2 hrs flight but yet costs arm and leg. I hate these bilateral aggreement crap.

Oh Galveston isn't so bad :-)

I agree the treaty limits should be changed or better yet open skies. The Bermuda II agreement really held back Heathrow service from Houston, now Houston will have many many choices to London, which is great for those of us in Business.

As for an update Aviacsa is ending service to Houston in a week, so we could see another Mexican carrier come in on both the Monterrey and Mexico City routes soon so you could get your wish on some routes.

however, due to higher operating costs, the smaller Mexican airports will be "pricey" for service from Houston due to higher costs to operate Regional Jets, but that non-stop service is better than connecting IMO.

Ciao,
AWACS

[MAH4546]

In 2005 the U.S.-Mexico air treaty was expanded to allow three airlines from each side to fly to resort towns - Acapulco, Cancun, Cozumel, Ixtapa, Mazatlan, Merida, Puerto Vallarta, San Jose del Cabo.

Effective last week - 1 January 2008 - three airlines from each side are allowed to fly on each route between the U.S. and both Guadalajara and Monterrey.

[misterno]

Vivaaerobus is planning to charge $10+tax for Austin and still make money and on the other hand last time I looked Aviacsa was charging $400 almost the same route and yet exiting the business.

Something does not make sense. What am I missing here?

[Major AWACS]

Viva aerobus will not charge 10 for ever ticket. Only the first few. It is marketing. Kind of like Skybus or Ryanair.

Ciao,
AWACS

[misterno]

Originally Posted by Capt AWACS

Viva aerobus will not charge 10 for ever ticket. Only the first few. It is marketing. Kind of like Skybus or Ryanair.

Ciao,
AWACS

True not every ticket, but look at Sipirit Air or others, there is so much sale going on for less than $10, it is unbelievable. Sooner or later I would catch a deal. The good part is buy the ticket now fly 6 months from today.

God, I hate continental.

[arbeiter]

Originally Posted by misterno

True not every ticket, but look at Sipirit Air or others, there is so much sale going on for less than $10, it is unbelievable. Sooner or later I would catch a deal. The good part is buy the ticket now fly 6 months from today.

God, I hate continental.

Ryanair sometimes actually will end upbeing only about $10 each way, but those are only on the 99 cent or $1.99 flights under 2 hours in length - I got a round trip London Stansted - Salzburg for about $35 round trip with tax once. But the reason this works is because of the EU's open skies laws; there is no equivalent for Mexico, so I can't imagine their flights being anything less than $70 round trip.

[Major AWACS]

Originally Posted by misterno

True not every ticket, but look at Sipirit Air or others, there is so much sale going on for less than $10, it is unbelievable. Sooner or later I would catch a deal. The good part is buy the ticket now fly 6 months from today.

God, I hate continental.

you seem to hate Continental because there prices are inline with other normal and legacy carriers. Airlines cannot sell all there tickets at ten bucks and survive. It just doesn't work that way. I love Continental. They connect me to the world non-stop, I have Presidents Club membership, firsdt class upgrades and platinum status. For business travellers like me Continental is ranked #1 nationally all the time.
For spring breakers, bargin hunters and the like I am sure cheaper fares are desired but airlines just can't make money that way. Even Ryanair charges 100s for some walk up tickets. That is just how fare buckets work.
Skybus in the US only has 5-10 seats at $10 the rest are the same prices as other airlines. The airlines can see each others fares and available seats it is no secret.

But I, like everyone else love a bargin, don't get me wrong. I fly Europe to the US and back about once a month. Sometimes I pay cheaper fares living in Europe. For the same flight with a US address I could pay more. Sometimes it is vice versa. Airfares are crazy things.

Ciao,
AWACS

[arbeiter]

Originally Posted by Capt AWACS

you seem to hate Continental because there prices are inline with other normal and legacy carriers. Airlines cannot sell all there tickets at ten bucks and survive. It just doesn't work that way. I love Continental. They connect me to the world non-stop, I have Presidents Club membership, firsdt class upgrades and platinum status. For business travellers like me Continental is ranked #1 nationally all the time.
For spring breakers, bargin hunters and the like I am sure cheaper fares are desired but airlines just can't make money that way. Even Ryanair charges 100s for some walk up tickets. That is just how fare buckets work.
Skybus in the US only has 5-10 seats at $10 the rest are the same prices as other airlines. The airlines can see each others fares and available seats it is no secret.

But I, like everyone else love a bargin, don't get me wrong. I fly Europe to the US and back about once a month. Sometimes I pay cheaper fares living in Europe. For the same flight with a US address I could pay more. Sometimes it is vice versa. Airfares are crazy things.

Ciao,
AWACS

Exactly. Continental has been okay to me every time I fly them, even though I don't fly them nearly as often as you. They're one of the only American carriers that has decent standards on their international service. What I would like to see is some of the larger carriers go the way of Aer Lingus - that is, remain a mass-market brand but dramatically simplify their pricing structure and operate a more transparent, everyday low price kind of thing, even if the price isn't always as low as Ryanair or something. Often times it's only a bit more and the extra luxury is worth it.

[DrewDizzle]

you seem to hate Continental because there prices are inline with other normal and legacy carriers.

They're inline with other over-inflated, capital-hemorrhaging airlines, you're right.

Airlines cannot sell all there tickets at ten bucks and survive.

Hell, airlines can't seem to sell their tickets at $300 and survive. I wish the government would just let the market work and stop the airline bailouts.

[Major AWACS]

Originally Posted by DrewDizzle

They're inline with other over-inflated, capital-hemorrhaging airlines, you're right.



Hell, airlines can't seem to sell their tickets at $300 and survive. I wish the government would just let the market work and stop the airline bailouts.

Interesting since Continental has made a profit and not entered Bankruptcy since Sept 11.

The market is working, you have no idea what you are talking about, in fact Continental could argue, like American they got little to no help post Sept 11th and still survived NOT in Bankruptcy or with a bailout. Continental and American make profits on the LatinAmerican and Carib ops. The price structure is fine. People just have to understand there are not $10 tickets to be had, realistically, in markets. Aviation does not work that way, especially with $5 a gallon AvGas.

Ciao,
AWACS

[JAM]

Speaking of surviving, sounds like AA upper mangt is doing quite well with their big bonuses, while AA pilots are still stuck with their post 9/11 pay cut.

[Trae]

Continental has won countless awards in the past three years. They are a great airline.

[DrewDizzle]

Originally Posted by Capt AWACS

Interesting since Continental has made a profit and not entered Bankruptcy since Sept 11.

The market is working, you have no idea what you are talking about, in fact Continental could argue, like American they got little to no help post Sept 11th and still survived NOT in Bankruptcy or with a bailout. Continental and American make profits on the LatinAmerican and Carib ops. The price structure is fine. People just have to understand there are not $10 tickets to be had, realistically, in markets. Aviation does not work that way, especially with $5 a gallon AvGas.

Ciao,
AWACS

The market is working halfway because some airlines still require bail outs when, if the market and free economy were left to it's own devices, the businesses would fold, and start-ups would fill the void with fresh ideas, smaller overhead, and the potential employee pool would get more competitive. I, by no means, believe that $10 tickets should be the norm.

[Major AWACS]

Originally Posted by DrewDizzle

The market is working halfway because some airlines still require bail outs when, if the market and free economy were left to it's own devices, the businesses would fold, and start-ups would fill the void with fresh ideas, smaller overhead, and the potential employee pool would get more competitive. I, by no means, believe that $10 tickets should be the norm.

But Continental, per your assertion in your first post is not inline with those carriers.

The problem in aviation is start-ups don't usually have smaller overhead.
Some startups save on union costs but they normally pay MORE for fuel because they don't have hedges. There are not a lot of "fresh-ideas" in aviation. Airlines make big money of business travs which LCCs cannot often market to with no frills and no lounges and service to secondary airports. Besides the "bailout" other airlines got post 9-11 was often in the form of low interest loans.
I did not agree with all of them, mind you, and there is room for one of the legacies to fail or be consolidated, but it will most likely be Delta swallowing united or Northwest. That will help with domestic capacity. We shall see if skybus lasts this whole year. That "fresh-idea" is losing millions even with decent load factors on some flights.

Ciao,
AWACS

[DrewDizzle]

Originally Posted by Capt AWACS

The problem in aviation is start-ups don't usually have smaller overhead.

I was referring mostly to pensions. I don't claim to know everything but I get fired up when I see airlines getting some bail outs and then turn around and charge absurdly expensive prices. Case a point, why does it cost $711 from US Airways to fly the same place Continental will for $326? Those are actual prices from Kayak.

[Major AWACS]

Continental fully funds its pensions thankfully.

Not all airlines will match prices on every seat on every route.
I am not sure what route you are trying to search or fly on but if it is out of Houston, Continental will fly it non-stop while US Air will most likely take you through Charlotte if it is east bound and through PHX or LAS west bound.

Sometimes airlines will match prices on connections, sometimes not.
American will normally match CO nearly ticket for ticket on the Florida Texas routes,even last minute walk ups others, not always
For me Continental is actually sometimes a bit more expensive but I will almost always pay more for a non-stop flight, and to fly Continental where I normally get upgraded to first class and have access to the airport lounge.

If a destination is heavily business, the higher first fare could be paid in full allowing a cheaper bucket on the backend for advance fare tickets. It all depends on the cost models and computer calculations the airlines use.

There are websites that show which seats are open in which buckets, you can check on.

Ciao,
AWACS

[Trae]

Yeah, Continental isn't as cheap as it was even two years ago, but neither is the whole airline industry. Two years ago, a IAH-LAX (Spring Break) flight costs us $160. This year, about $230.