Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[bomberjet]

I see people everyday freaking day at Bishop and Pembina do that. People are trying to merge from Pembina onto eastbound Bishop. People will go out of their way to not let you in. They'll sit there looking like idiots because traffic is stopped and you're trying to get in. That one car won't make a difference cause traffic is backed up anyways at that point.

[Komatiite]

I'm of two minds on that. I've had people not let me in, but I've also had cases where people just refuse to merge/change lanes for whatever reason. We're going the same speed - you can navigate a 30 foot difference between us doing 70 km/hr without causing a fiery wreck. It's okay, trust me.

I find that a big logistical problem with Winnipeg drivers is the lack of urgency, and I do blame that on the lights. Why accelerate up to speed when you'll just have to stop at the next intersection? I never thought I'd be a speed demon by actively accelerating my shitty little 130 hp four-banger.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I see people everyday freaking day at Bishop and Pembina do that. People are trying to merge from Pembina onto eastbound Bishop. People will go out of their way to not let you in. They'll sit there looking like idiots because traffic is stopped and you're trying to get in. That one car won't make a difference cause traffic is backed up anyways at that point.

Originally Posted by Komatiite

I'm of two minds on that. I've had people not let me in, but I've also had cases where people just refuse to merge/change lanes for whatever reason. We're going the same speed - you can navigate a 30 foot difference between us doing 70 km/hr without causing a fiery wreck. It's okay, trust me.

I find that a big logistical problem with Winnipeg drivers is the lack of urgency, and I do blame that on the lights. Why accelerate up to speed when you'll just have to stop at the next intersection? I never thought I'd be a speed demon by actively accelerating my shitty little 130 hp four-banger.

Tell me about it. This was head scratching to no end.

I agree that the lack of proper infrastructure contributes to this in addition to poorly timed lights and also the massive amounts of lights on speedways.

Although aggressive drivers still exist in Calgary, drivers here overall
are great with letting you in and lane changes. It's the "norm" to the extent even on deerfoot if you need to switch into a faster lane and you want to get in, cars speeding up will slow down to let you in. Infrastructure may play a role in this as mentioned earlier.


Regarding the Kenaston/Perimeter intersection, it's simply unfortunate how much that development is sort of a manifestation of the anti-free flow set up of the perimeter in general.

It has such potential to be an amazing roadway for the region, but safety issues and various logistic issues truly hamper that.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ When people say that Winnipeggers don't know how to merge properly, I'd say it's mainly because we have very, very few proper merging lanes in and around the city. We're more or less used to being forced right into the traffic flow after taking an exit ramp or a yield lane.

Proper merge lanes are definitely part of the issue, a bigger problem though is when drivers are on a four lane road, travelling at a high rate of speed in the right hand lane with no exit near by and failing to move over to the completely empty left lane to let merging traffic in. At that point you are going significantly faster than the merging vehicle and can reclaim the right lane almost immediately without issue.

Personally I blame the poor driver education in this province. I strongly feel all drivers need to pass four components: written knowledge, urban driving, parallel parking, and a highway driving component. In Winnipeg the highway driving component would use the Perimeter, for other testing locations they all have highways nearby they could use. Further, I think every driver needs a full, mandatory retest every five years. First retest attempt is free, you pay for every attempt beyond that. The retest by date would be will known in advance giving you plenty of time to have it completed. If you haven't passed by the deadline you revert to phase 2 of the GDL (can drive with limits) for a six month grace period, after which you drop to phase one of GDL (need a supervising driver).

All that said, while the province is busy fixing the Perimeter and building interchanges elsewhere start lengthening the merge and exit lanes already.

[Riverman]

In the city, both the Disraeli and Chief Peguis projects had merge lanes but after reconstruction the merge lanes were replaced with 90 degree uncontrolled intersections.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by Riverman

In the city, both the Disraeli and Chief Peguis projects had merge lanes but after reconstruction the merge lanes were replaced with 90 degree uncontrolled intersections.

Ugh -- Disraeli is the worst... And I don't think it's 90 degrees, it is either more than 90 degrees or has a smaller than normal turning radius.

[Riverman]

The funny thing is, off Talbot northbound they had more room for a nice merge lane than they did before.

[bomberjet]

^ That was so stupid. They got rid of the merge lane to put the big "Welcome to Elmwood" sign up. Now you're trying to yield into traffic that's coming off the bridge doing 80 km/h lots of times.

[cllew]

Technically even with the old bridge you were suppose to follow the Metro Route 37 signs to Henderson Hwy via Watt and Johnson if you were coming from the east. That was to allow you to access Henderson at a signalized intersection. The yield was for local traffic to access Henderson.

Most people of course just continue right down to the end so yes a better yield lane should have been included.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

^ That was so stupid. They got rid of the merge lane to put the big "Welcome to Elmwood" sign up. Now you're trying to yield into traffic that's coming off the bridge doing 80 km/h lots of times.

And you basically have to edge into the right hand lane to be able to see the oncoming traffic too, which could also be a result of the S curve, I'm trying to visualize it.

Poorly conceived either way.

[Reignman]

I believe someone here (bomberjet?) mentioned that the entire south perimeter is slated for rebuild soon. Just wondering of there is a specific timeline?

I went to North Dakota last weekend and one doesn't necessarily realize how poor of condition the SE stretch of perimiter between Fermor and St Mary's is in until you drive on a US interstate, and come back here again. Considering this is also part of the Trans Canada this highway is truly an embarassment.

The reason I am asking for the timeline is - if it's say 10 years off, is the province just going to avoid putting any $ into this stretch and let it deteriorate even further until the rebuild is started?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Reignman

I believe someone here (bomberjet?) mentioned that the entire south perimeter is slated for rebuild soon. Just wondering of there is a specific timeline?

I went to North Dakota last weekend and one doesn't necessarily realize how poor of condition the SE stretch of perimiter between Fermor and St Mary's is in until you drive on a US interstate, and come back here again. Considering this is also part of the Trans Canada this highway is truly an embarassment.

The reason I am asking for the timeline is - if it's say 10 years off, is the province just going to avoid putting any $ into this stretch and let it deteriorate even further until the rebuild is started?

^^^2 to 3 years. You could see earth movement as early as next year if they can get the design done quick enough.

[bomberjet]

And that's on the southeast Perimeter in 2-3 years? So going on simultaneously with the southwest Perimeter upgrades that were announced?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

And that's on the southeast Perimeter in 2-3 years? So going on simultaneously with the southwest Perimeter upgrades that were announced?

Sorry, I am still half asleep. I meant SW first. but still earth work for the whole southern perimeter possible next year. It will likely be a years worth of earthwork or better before any pavement starts. They will apparently be prepping the whole southern and SW perimeter for future 6 lane widths.

[The Unknown Poster]

So if I understand this correctly, the kenaston/PH intersection will be traffic light controlled (stopping traffic once again) but the Waverly/PH intersection is only half closing, so there will continue to be lights there as well? Good Lord...

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

So if I understand this correctly, the kenaston/PH intersection will be traffic light controlled (stopping traffic once again) but the Waverly/PH intersection is only half closing, so there will continue to be lights there as well? Good Lord...

Yup! You always want to maximize the amount of traffic lights on high speed roadways. It a safety thing.

Such a joke. Instead of starting the Kenaston/100 interchange and/or fast-tracking the St Norbert bypass to coincide with connection of Kenaston to the perimiter, we will be left with two "temporary" t-bone intersections within a very short distance of each other. Only in Manitoba.

[Reignman]

In my opinion, if you can't do it the right way (interchange), then quite simply Kenaston does not get access to the perimeter until the interchange is completed. Continue to use Waverly and McGillvary until that time for perimeter access instead of adding yet another dangerous intersection.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Reignman

In my opinion, if you can't do it the right way (interchange), then quite simply Kenaston does not get access to the perimeter until the interchange is completed. Continue to use Waverly and McGillvary until that time for perimeter access instead of adding yet another dangerous intersection.

I guess they could drop the limit on the south Perimeter to 80 in recognition of all the substandard intersections there.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by Biff

Sorry, I am still half asleep. I meant SW first. but still earth work for the whole southern perimeter possible next year. It will likely be a years worth of earthwork or better before any pavement starts. They will apparently be prepping the whole southern and SW perimeter for future 6 lane widths.

This is great news, that's sooner than I expected. I was thinking "5 years" was short term

Originally Posted by Reignman

In my opinion, if you can't do it the right way (interchange), then quite simply Kenaston does not get access to the perimeter until the interchange is completed. Continue to use Waverly and McGillvary until that time for perimeter access instead of adding yet another dangerous intersection.

Yeah, pretty much this. No doubt the province is well aware of how much safer free flow and a proper street lighting system could make the perimeter, but it's not quite high priority enough to get fast tracked.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Biff

Sorry, I am still half asleep. I meant SW first. but still earth work for the whole southern perimeter possible next year. It will likely be a years worth of earthwork or better before any pavement starts. They will apparently be prepping the whole southern and SW perimeter for future 6 lane widths.

Wouldn't it make more sense to rehab one side, demolish the other side and move it over to give it the proper space between opposite directions? It might even be possible if expanding to three lanes to push traffic onto the to be demolished side with one lane each way, rehab the other side to three lanes + generous paved shoulder and add a temporary gravel shoulder. Then flip the active side so you have two lanes each direction at reduced speeds for the remaining rehab work.

Originally Posted by Reignman

Such a joke. Instead of starting the Kenaston/100 interchange and/or fast-tracking the St Norbert bypass to coincide with connection of Kenaston to the perimiter

You could build the interchange at the Perimeter for the St Norbert by-pass without actually building the by-pass road to open at the same time. This is exactly what was done with CentrePort Way and the Headingley by-pass. Further, it would seem there is a heavy overlap of skill set between those two projects making it ideal to fast track the St Norbert interchange and by-pass. Highway 2/3 and Highway 6 should then follow on fairly quickly. The Lag/Perimeter mess though needs to be kept to a separate team.