The Dad Thread

[esquire]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Who here is a step-dad?

This is my second time. First marriage, my ex had very young kids who were only 6 when we met and my role was more "dad" like, even though their biological father was involved in their lives.

This time my wife's kids are older, 23 and 19 now for the ones still at home with one that will be 27 soon who is on her own. The younger child is just starting college and trying to find her path, the 23-year-old has bounced around in his education and has yet to define a future direction for himself. I've become more of a friend and mentor almost in a default way... my spouse and I have discussed it but the kids haven't expressed their thoughts (even though we did ask). Anyone else facing the challenges of being a step-parent to older kids?

I respect anyone who does a good job of handling those complicated situations. Now that I'm in my 40s, they're becoming a bit more common among my friends and acquaintances as some couples separate/divorce and start new relationships.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

I respect anyone who does a good job of handling those complicated situations. Now that I'm in my 40s, they're becoming a bit more common among my friends and acquaintances as some couples separate/divorce and start new relationships.

The idea that another man could possibly be living 24 hours a day in a "home" setting with my kids was a stressful thought for me when they were younger.

Not necessarily because I feared that my place would be stolen by another guy, but for stuff like potential abuse and mistreatment.

[TimB09]

Dad of 2 boys here, 38 years old. First one is 3 and the second is 10 months right now.

Absolutely loving being a Dad. The feeling when I come home from work and get to see them and play with them before bed is like no other I've ever experienced.

Others have said they weren't pushed into activities but we told each other that our boys will be active BUT if they don't like the activity they don't have to continue on. Now, once they start, they can't quit until the season/lessons are over, but we won't push them back into anything if they hate it. My parents were that way with my brother and I growing up but I loved all the sports I did and stuck with them for years.

My wife and I have had our challenges. Breast feeding didn't go well with either boy so they were both bottle-fed. My wife was very upset she couldn't breast feed but being bottle fed, both boys are healthy and doing very well. Second one has some eczema issues but they aren't terrible.

The other issue is my wife's parents are in another province and mine are here. The babysitting and help hasn't been there as much as we'd like and my wife always tells me how her parents would always be there if we needed them. It's been hard on us at times and hard on me to hear that.

Social life for my wife and I is slowly coming back too as the boys get older. Slowly but surely. Lots of our friends have kids too so it makes it easy to go out and do more now, whether it be with kids or without.

Ok, that's a lot. This is a good outlet to share. Thanks to who started this thread.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For all the talk about societal and social pressure to become a parent, in certain specific milieus having a kid these days might actually be a big move against the grain.

Society is pretty misleading about this. Back in the quaint 90's there was the narrative that women were equal to men in professional situations and could have it all, which was well intentioned but downplayed the family and institutional supports like leave that are practically required for pregnancy and motherhood. Since then it has become cool for the upper middle and upper class to socially signal that they will party forever but most of them privately have different plans. The Monty Python Protestant of our time might be the young-ish upper middle class homemaker wife who loudly promotes every socially non-traditional stance out there. I wonder if some people just fall for that.

Another aspect which may affect this a bit is that gay men have a lot of cultural impact but aren't really in that world. Childlessness is the default and adult friendships, even intergenerational ones, are pretty common. If you want, as a 30-70+ year old gay man you can go out and party at bars with people like you or go on apps. If you did similar things as a straight woman you'd probably run into a lot of Ron Jeremy types and 95% of your friends would drop out by age 40. And you might have some gay friend who would cheer you on and tell you to hang in there, or you might see a TV show written by an old gay guy showing people like you doing stuff that people like him do.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For all the talk about societal and social pressure to become a parent, in certain specific milieus having a kid these days might actually be a big move against the grain.

Having a kid makes me more acutely aware of the ambient, zero-population-growth messaging.

People can do as they like. But one argument that really gets me is the one where "I don't want my child to grow up in this world".

As readers of the foreign affairs thread know, I'm bearish. I think this decade hosts either a broad European war or a global one, and economic decline is a certainty.

Likely everyone, though, I'm the product of an unbroken line of ancestors, a line that goes back into creatures that weren't even human. And much more recently, I am pretty sure that at least a significant part of them lived lives like:

- Highland Scottish pig thief
- Victorian East London industrial worker
- Cornish serf
- Roman-era murder victim

and on down into proto-human lives that pretty much resemble those of Sasquatch.

So it's like... it's fine. I'm glad to be here. I'm grateful to all of them. I don't know what's coming but my line has likely had worse.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by someone123

Society is pretty misleading about this. Back in the quaint 90's there was the narrative that women were equal to men in professional situations and could have it all, which was well intentioned but downplayed the family and institutional supports like leave that are practically required for pregnancy and motherhood. Since then it has become cool for the upper middle and upper class to socially signal that they will party forever but most of them privately have different plans. The Monty Python Protestant of our time might be the young-ish upper middle class homemaker wife who loudly promotes every socially non-traditional stance out there. I wonder if some people just fall for that.

Is this just a matter of people clinging to their youth and not wanting to feel old? Some people may have a hard time moving on from the carefree and freewheeling 20s and 30s and settling down to become the responsible, dutiful parent.

[someone123]

Zero population growth is fertility of a little bit over 2 children per woman. 1 child per woman is "zero population" in the long run.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Having a kid makes me more acutely aware of the ambient, zero-population-growth messaging.

People can do as they like. But one argument that really gets me is the one where "I don't want my child to grow up in this world".

As readers of the foreign affairs thread know, I'm bearish. I think this decade hosts either a broad European war or a global one, and economic decline is a certainty.

Likely everyone, though, I'm the product of an unbroken line of ancestors, a line that goes back into creatures that weren't even human. And much more recently, I am pretty sure that at least a significant part of them lived lives like:

- Highland Scottish pig thief
- Victorian East London industrial worker
- Cornish serf
- Roman-era murder victim

and on down into proto-human lives that pretty much resemble those of Sasquatch.

So it's like... it's fine. I'm glad to be here. I'm grateful to all of them. I don't know what's coming but my line has likely had worse.

The highlighted: spoken like a true dad!

Interestingly enough, one of my kids last night shared with me that they'd been working on an online family tree in their spare time. (I had never suspected this kid's interest in the family's heritage at all.)

Anyway, through the magic of the web my kid uncovered a whole swathe of German lineage that we have via immigration to post-Acadian British-held Nova Scotia. I am pretty sure no one in my family is aware of this, so I can't wait to share with my genealogically-curious older family members when I have a bit of time!

I wanted to go to bed early last night, but instead stayed up a bit later doing searches up the tree and finding a "Graf" (Count) here and there from the 1500s and 1600s.

Pretty cool.

[esquire]

^ I'm not interested enough in genealogy to take it up as a pursuit, but I did spit in a tube and send it off to 23andme. It was interesting to see what it revealed. No surprises in my case, but it was cool to have my understanding confirmed... it's amazing how far back the information goes.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Having a kid makes me more acutely aware of the ambient, zero-population-growth messaging.

People can do as they like. But one argument that really gets me is the one where "I don't want my child to grow up in this world".

As readers of the foreign affairs thread know, I'm bearish. I think this decade hosts either a broad European war or a global one, and economic decline is a certainty.

Likely everyone, though, I'm the product of an unbroken line of ancestors, a line that goes back into creatures that weren't even human. And much more recently, I am pretty sure that at least a significant part of them lived lives like:

- Highland Scottish pig thief
- Victorian East London industrial worker
- Cornish serf
- Roman-era murder victim

and on down into proto-human lives that pretty much resemble those of Sasquatch.

So it's like... it's fine. I'm glad to be here. I'm grateful to all of them. I don't know what's coming but my line has likely had worse.

I never bought the "I just can't raise children in this world" argument, either, and I suspect that people who say things like that never really wanted to have kids anyway.

I don't even know what a dark age collapse would mean in this day and age. Unlike 1200 BCE, we live in a world where there's more than one library and more than just a small class of people who can read and write. I don't think there will be the same kind of information loss. About 1 in 400 Canadians is a licensed electrician. There will always be somebody around to keep the lights on, in a literal sense. And whatever detritus is left over from the fighting won't be just broken stones and bones. There will be medical grade plastic, fibre optic cable, working solar panels, all that good stuff to work with...

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by esquire

I could see it being isolating if you are the only one in your group having kids, which may be the case for those who become parents at a young age relative to their friends. I remember when I was in university there were a couple of acquaintances who had kids fairly early on, when I was still in my early 20s and children were far from my mind. I'm sure that wasn't all that easy for them, as few of their friends could relate. Although I suppose when you have kids you do tend to turn inward somewhat. Home typically becomes a bigger part of your life.

In my close circle of high school friends, one of them had kids at least 5 years before the next one, so his kids are now 12 and 15, while the average is about 6 and 8, and I'm the late straggler at 0 and 3.

Anyway, about 11 years ago we planned a "guys weekend", and decided to have it in Ottawa, since that's where he and another friend lived.

During that weekend, he kind of came in and out of the activities we had. So, he came to the restaurant, but a little late, since he was tucking his kids in bed, and then left before last call because he wanted to have a proper night's rest, and then came around again to our AirBnB the next morning to give us donuts and coffee to nurse our hangovers.

At the time I didn't appreciate it, but now that I'm in his shoes, I realize just what a good sport he was. I mean, if we were planning a similar weekend now, and the rest of them were willing to come to Toronto, I'd be like "I won't be able to make it, can we do this next year?" To be fair, he was in his twenties at the time, so he had more energy than I do now.

[Pavlov]

This is a really great thread. Its a nice change from a lot of the discussion on SSP over the past number of years.

I have two sons: one just turned four years old and the other is ten months old. I just turned 45 (does the make me the latest bloomer so far in this thread?).

Fatherhood has been an incredible experience. In my youth, I fancied myself a globe-trotting intellectual/adventure-seeker. I looked down on parenthood as a sort of "opium for the masses" who lacked my sense of adventure. Suffice to say, I was utterly wrong (and a pompous ass).

My experience has been so rewarding. It truly changed the way I reflect back on my own life, my own childhood, and think ahead about my own mortality.

Like others, it has also been incredibly difficult. My wife and I both have very demanding, very stressful professional jobs. As we waited so long to have children, we're both at a point in our careers where we're expected to be at our peaks (in terms of performance and commitment). Juggling that with the incredible demands of raising two young children has been very difficult.

Also, our nearest family (my mother-in-law) lives 400 km away (and she isn't willing or able to babysit, even for short periods of time). My wife and I literally have had one "date night" in four years.

All of this pressure has contributed to (or exacerbated) certain relationship troubles. We've slowly grown out of love. We've discussed separation. Obviously, we both want to do what is best for our children and our family, but it is so hard to know what that is. We're working on it.

Anyway, thanks again for this thread. Now that I've moved away from my childhood home, my relationships with friends and families isn't the same as it was, so I don't have a lot of people to vent to. Venting to anonymous SSP forumers feels surprisingly good.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Pavlov

This is a really great thread. Its a nice change from a lot of the discussion on SSP over the past number of years.

I have two sons: one just turned four years old and the other is ten months old. I just turned 45 (does the make me the latest bloomer so far in this thread?).

Fatherhood has been an incredible experience. In my youth, I fancied myself a globe-trotting intellectual/adventure-seeker. I looked down on parenthood as a sort of "opium for the masses" who lacked my sense of adventure. Suffice to say, I was utterly wrong (and a pompous ass).

My experience has been so rewarding. It truly changed the way I reflect back on my own life, my own childhood, and think ahead about my own mortality.

Like others, it has also been incredibly difficult. My wife and I both have very demanding, very stressful professional jobs. As we waited so long to have children, we're both at a point in our careers where we're expected to be at our peaks (in terms of performance and commitment). Juggling that with the incredible demands of raising two young children has been very difficult.

Also, our nearest family (my mother-in-law) lives 400 km away (and she isn't willing or able to babysit, even for short periods of time). My wife and I literally have had one "date night" in four years.

All of this pressure has contributed to (or exacerbated) certain relationship troubles. We've slowly grown out of love. We've discussed separation. Obviously, we both want to do what is best for our children and our family, but it is so hard to know what that is. We're working on it.

Anyway, thanks again for this thread. Now that I've moved away from my childhood home, my relationships with friends and families isn't the same as it was, so I don't have a lot of people to vent to. Venting to anonymous SSP forumers feels surprisingly good.

What a heartfelt and honest post.

I hope everything turns out for the better for you and your family.

[drew]

^ I think separations when they happen are easiest on the kids when they are either very young or comparatively old. If the writing is on the wall (so to speak) waiting until they are in their tweens or teens is likely the hardest on them.

I have friends who had the most amicable separation and divorce possible, and they did it when the kids were somewhere around 3 and 6. They are both living happily ever after, and I often find myself mildly jealous of the "time to yourself" that separation creates depending on when you or your ex have the kids.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Had my kids when I was 37 and 39. NOT the right age for that.

Me too. Exactly the same ages. I kept in shape just to keep up to my kids. They're 14 and almost 16 now. Still in good shape...

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Pavlov

This is a really great thread. Its a nice change from a lot of the discussion on SSP over the past number of years.

I have two sons: one just turned four years old and the other is ten months old. I just turned 45 (does the make me the latest bloomer so far in this thread?).

Fatherhood has been an incredible experience. In my youth, I fancied myself a globe-trotting intellectual/adventure-seeker. I looked down on parenthood as a sort of "opium for the masses" who lacked my sense of adventure. Suffice to say, I was utterly wrong (and a pompous ass).

My experience has been so rewarding. It truly changed the way I reflect back on my own life, my own childhood, and think ahead about my own mortality.

Like others, it has also been incredibly difficult. My wife and I both have very demanding, very stressful professional jobs. As we waited so long to have children, we're both at a point in our careers where we're expected to be at our peaks (in terms of performance and commitment). Juggling that with the incredible demands of raising two young children has been very difficult.

Also, our nearest family (my mother-in-law) lives 400 km away (and she isn't willing or able to babysit, even for short periods of time). My wife and I literally have had one "date night" in four years.

All of this pressure has contributed to (or exacerbated) certain relationship troubles. We've slowly grown out of love. We've discussed separation. Obviously, we both want to do what is best for our children and our family, but it is so hard to know what that is. We're working on it.

Anyway, thanks again for this thread. Now that I've moved away from my childhood home, my relationships with friends and families isn't the same as it was, so I don't have a lot of people to vent to. Venting to anonymous SSP forumers feels surprisingly good.

I feel for you. Parenting while juggling a demanding career is really tough, especially without help nearby (family). Our first 6 years with kids were essentially bereft of date nights, given the lack of relatives to help out. I have come to realize just how important those date nights really are in terms of keeping the spark alive, and staying close to your partner. Some people say that having kids brings parents closer together, but I am not so sure about that. I am so glad that I had kids, and never to I resent them for the tough times, but there were lots of tough times.

And dammit they are really expensive (especially now: mine are teenagers).

I was also one of those wanderlust dreamers back in my 20s-early 30s. I am somewhat fortunate that I still get to travel due to my career. I want my kids to be able to see the world in a way that I never did until I was in my thirties. Growing up, vacations entirely consisted of places we could drive to, and living in Montreal, this meant Maine and Massachusetts (as well as Quebec/Ontario), and Via rail trips to visit grandparents in Toronto)

[samne]

Wow….didn’t think there was this many Dads on here. Thought I was one of the few middle aged guys. Glad to see it. Father of 11 and 14 year olds. Pride and enjoy when I haven’t reached my rope with them. Had them in my early/mid thirties.

Really feel the young Dads balancing career, marriage and family. I had serious issues trying to do this when they were younger. I’d often spend late nights at the office thinking I was working hard for the family, but it wasn’t the case. It clicked in later that these kids are only young once and I have the rest of my life to work as hard as I want, but right now the kids need me around more than I need to work so hard.

The pandemic partly drove us nuts but also forced us to reconnect in a way we would never have before. Also thinking twice about how busy do we need to keep our kids. The stress of all the lessons, practices, activities we put our kids in outside of school. I think we are little more balanced now.

Any younger parents, I would suggest thinking carefully about over programming your kids with activities. We can get really caught up in keeping up. Let kids be kids. Those who are married, split the household chores. I pick the stuff I don’t mind doing( like cooking) and she’d rather not deal with and vice versa. I’m far from perfect Dad/spouse but few things I’ve found to make things little easier for me and the family.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Pavlov

This is a really great thread. Its a nice change from a lot of the discussion on SSP over the past number of years.

I have two sons: one just turned four years old and the other is ten months old. I just turned 45 (does the make me the latest bloomer so far in this thread?).

Fatherhood has been an incredible experience. In my youth, I fancied myself a globe-trotting intellectual/adventure-seeker. I looked down on parenthood as a sort of "opium for the masses" who lacked my sense of adventure. Suffice to say, I was utterly wrong (and a pompous ass).

My experience has been so rewarding. It truly changed the way I reflect back on my own life, my own childhood, and think ahead about my own mortality.

Like others, it has also been incredibly difficult. My wife and I both have very demanding, very stressful professional jobs. As we waited so long to have children, we're both at a point in our careers where we're expected to be at our peaks (in terms of performance and commitment). Juggling that with the incredible demands of raising two young children has been very difficult.

Also, our nearest family (my mother-in-law) lives 400 km away (and she isn't willing or able to babysit, even for short periods of time). My wife and I literally have had one "date night" in four years.

All of this pressure has contributed to (or exacerbated) certain relationship troubles. We've slowly grown out of love. We've discussed separation. Obviously, we both want to do what is best for our children and our family, but it is so hard to know what that is. We're working on it.

Anyway, thanks again for this thread. Now that I've moved away from my childhood home, my relationships with friends and families isn't the same as it was, so I don't have a lot of people to vent to. Venting to anonymous SSP forumers feels surprisingly good.

It’s not easy.

Date nights are important. Hire a babysitter if you have to (I know it’s difficult, especially with a 10 month old), but spending time alone with the wife away from the kids is just as important. Like I was saying up-thread, I count myself extremely lucky to have my parents and my in-laws nearby, and the fact that I can rely on them for babysitting.

And the job pays the bills, but it’s taken a back seat in terms of importance for me, that’s for sure.

Originally Posted by esquire

Someone I know who had triplets observed that "the world is designed for families of four"... there are definitely major logistical and cost challenges that come with having more than two kids!

Absolutely. Most hotel rooms at all inclusives down south are for 4 people. If you have a 5th person, it’s extra. That a bitch!

[urbandreamer]

I find this thread very depressing. A few years ago I was finally ready to grow up and start a family. Then I learned why I've never felt "normal" had little energy etc. Essentially I'm unable to have kids.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by esquire

I could see it being isolating if you are the only one in your group having kids, which may be the case for those who become parents at a young age relative to their friends. I remember when I was in university there were a couple of acquaintances who had kids fairly early on, when I was still in my early 20s and children were far from my mind. I'm sure that wasn't all that easy for them, as few of their friends could relate. Although I suppose when you have kids you do tend to turn inward somewhat. Home typically becomes a bigger part of your life.

In my case, becoming a dad in my 30s meant that a lot of my friends were going through the same thing at the same time. Several of my wife's friends were on mat leave at the same times as her, so that certainly gave her a strong circle of friends.

Yes agreed. I hope Zeej can find some support here at least. Another huge factor leading to parental isolation has been the pandemic. Our son just turned 9 mths old and we were starting to hit our stride and live life a bit more and enjoy family support and then BOOM! Even though we’re not in lockdown anymore the rift it created with my family continues. My father is now anti vaxx for even flu shots and refuses to take any precautions and believes my newborn should just be exposed to everything (forget Covid, RSV is crazy this season and it kills babies).