Canadian Foreign Policy & Affairs II

[logan5]

Interesting part of that video I posted is where a grieving mother is saying "fuck Hamas", and the person who is with her is trying to cover her mouth with his hand. Obviously the people of Gaza are afraid of Hamas. They have to worry about Israel killing them from the outside, and Hamas killing them on the inside.

[Tvisforme]

There was quite a fuss at the tail end of the previous thread ("Unf***ingbelievable, Junior is going to squander your tax dollars again bailing out Canadians of Convenience in Lebanon") regarding plans for potentially evacuating Canadian citizens from Lebanon. Will there be the same reaction to tonight's news, or was it just another "F*** Trudeau" moment? Let's find out:

U.S. readies plans for mass evacuations if Gaza war escalates
Officials said that the more than 600,000 Americans living in Israel and Lebanon are of particular concern, but they stressed that an operation of such magnitude is a worst-case scenario

By Yasmeen Abutaleb, Dan Lamothe, John Hudson and Michael Birnbaum
October 23, 2023 at 10:29 p.m. EDT

The Biden administration is preparing for the possibility that hundreds of thousands of American citizens will require evacuation from the Middle East if the bloodshed in Gaza cannot be contained, according to four officials familiar with the U.S. government’s contingency planning.

The specter of such an operation comes as Israeli forces, aided by U.S. weapons and military advisers, prepare for what is widely expected to be a perilous ground offensive against Hamas militants responsible for the stunning cross-border attack that has reignited hostilities. The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity to detail internal deliberations, said Americans living in Israel and neighboring Lebanon are of particular concern, though they stressed that an evacuation of that magnitude is considered a worst-case scenario and that other outcomes are seen as more likely.

Still, one official said, it “would be irresponsible not to have a plan for everything.”

(story continues)

[Truenorth00]

A British Labour MP is claiming (in the British HoC) he was pulled aside and searched at both ends of his trip (Heathrow-Montreal) by Air Canada staff simply because his name was Mohammad. He claims he was allowed through only when other members of UK contingent intervened. He said he has received an apology from the Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration in Canada, but will be taking it up with the Canadian High Commissioner in London.

https://amp.theguardian.com/news/202...e-was-mohammad

I'm wondering if he somehow got misidentified on some list for Air Canada.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

A British Labour MP is claiming (in the British HoC) he was pulled aside and searched at both ends of his trip (Heathrow-Montreal) by Air Canada staff simply because his name was Mohammad. He claims he was allowed through only when other members of UK contingent intervened. He said he has received an apology from the Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration in Canada, but will be taking it up with the Canadian High Commissioner in London.

https://amp.theguardian.com/news/202...e-was-mohammad

I'm wondering if he somehow got misidentified on some list for Air Canada.

Considering it's basically the equivalent of Smith in the Muslim world, it probably happens way too frequently. I wonder how many others get an apology when they aren't an MP?

[Acajack]

What's on the mind of Joe Biden versus what's on the minds of many Democrats.

White House spokeswoman Karine Jean-Pierre is asked a clear question about anti-semitism, and answers by going on about islamophobia and Arab-Americans, then remembers what the question was about and slips "and Jews" into there.

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/statu...66667172475260

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

There was quite a fuss at the tail end of the previous thread ("Unf***ingbelievable, Junior is going to squander your tax dollars again bailing out Canadians of Convenience in Lebanon") regarding plans for potentially evacuating Canadian citizens from Lebanon. Will there be the same reaction to tonight's news, or was it just another "F*** Trudeau" moment? Let's find out:

As Truenorth explained to you, Uncle Sam actually taxes its overseas citizens (one of very few countries to do so). They are not parasites like our “Canadians of Convenience”.

[MolsonExport]

overseas Canadians are parasites?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

overseas Canadians are parasites?

I think "Canadians of convenience" is the usual term. It has the advantage of being nicer than "parasites", plus it's more accurate relative to how these people operate.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

overseas Canadians are parasites?

Canadians of convenience I suppose - most notably Lebanese or Hong Kong dual nationals who choose to live in their home countries, and only carry Canadian passports so they have a safe haven to flee to when the shit hits the fan.

Possibly also snowbirds who choose to live in Florida for six months less a day every year, spending their Canadian pension funds outside of the country.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think "Canadians of convenience" is the usual term. It has the advantage of being nicer than "parasites", plus it's more accurate relative to how these people operate.

Living in Canada makes you not a citizen of convenience? How many are doing public service, serving in the military or frankly contributing at all? We don't provide healthcare to non-residents, do allow their children to pay Canadian rates in University, don't give the child benefits and don't tax them. Evacuation should be limited to those resident in Canada? There is an argument to be made for sure if you live in Lebanon you shouldn't be evacuated to Canada but that's not how we do it currently. We seem to charge people discouraging frivolous evacuation. Lots of those in Lebanon probably still owe money from the last time we evacuated them.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Living in Canada makes you not a citizen of convenience? How many are doing public service, serving in the military or frankly contributing at all? We don't provide healthcare to non-residents, do allow their children to pay Canadian rates in University, don't give the child benefits and don't tax them. Evacuation should be limited to those resident in Canada? There is an argument to be made for sure if you live in Lebanon you shouldn't be evacuated to Canada but that's not how we do it currently. We seem to charge people discouraging frivolous evacuation. Lots of those in Lebanon probably still owe money from the last time we evacuated them.

Not sure what you mean here.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure what you mean here.

I'll be blunter. Most Canadians living in Canada are degenerates who contribute nothing positive to the country so I have no problem spending a few $million to evacuate anyone with a Canadian passport. Many who are brand ambassadors abroad for Canada. A Canadian is a Canadian.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I'll be blunter. Most Canadians living in Canada are degenerates who contribute nothing positive to the country so I have no problem spending a few $million to evacuate anyone with a Canadian passport. Many who are brand ambassadors abroad for Canada. A Canadian is a Canadian.

I am not really an advocate for the hardline against "Canadians of convenience", though I'd stop short of saying they really are brand ambassadors for us abroad. That seems like a huge exaggeration.

I've got friends who have passports of convenience from countries that don't necessarily align with their apparent cultural background, and I never think of them in terms of those extra citizenships they have.

So I strongly doubt that Fadi in Beirut or Wei in Hong Kong are ever thought of as "Canadians" in their respective entourages over there. They're just regular locals.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think "Canadians of convenience" is the usual term. It has the advantage of being nicer than "parasites", plus it's more accurate relative to how these people operate.

It’s the exact same thing beyond the semantics: people who contribute nothing, and only show up / exist when convenient for them.

One of the salient characteristics of “a Canadian” is that they have some sort of relationship with Canada. If you live overseas, pay zero taxes, contribute nothing to the economy, never interact with any other Canadian, etc. and your only link to Canada is a passport gathering dust in a drawer, you’re not really “a Canadian” in practice.

SSPer Doug in Australia eventually cancelled his Canadian citizenship, but the day right before he did, he wasn’t very Canadian either, no?

[lio45]

I’m eligible for French citizenship and if I got it and kept living in Quebec/Florida but one day needed an injection of euros from the French treasury to bail me out, and acted like it’s owed to me, you wouldn't consider me a parasite from the French point of view?!?

[Acajack]

I would suspect the vast majority of Canadians of convenience around the world don't and won't cost us anything. We make 100 bucks or so off them every five years when they renew their passports and that's about it.

Lebanon is a notable exception of course though if the number of hotspots around the world starts to increase we may want to revisit our policies.

[MonctonRad]

I was eligible for US citizenship (green card at least) through my mother, and began the process to get a green card about 25 years ago, until I found out about the liabilities of dual US citizenship (most notably double taxation) and backed out.

Maybe dual Canadian nationals living outside the country should have to pay a special fee to sort the wheat from the chafe.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not really an advocate for the hardline against "Canadians of convenience", though I'd stop short of saying they really are brand ambassadors for us abroad. That seems like a huge exaggeration.

I've got friends who have passports of convenience from countries that don't necessarily align with their apparent cultural background, and I never think of them in terms of those extra citizenships they have.

So I strongly doubt that Fadi in Beirut or Wei in Hong Kong are ever thought of as "Canadians" in their respective entourages over there. They're just regular locals.

I don't know how Faid and Wei became Canadian but I know my experience abroad is these Canadians of convenience are always blathering about Canada. Certainly my relatives who moved to the US etc. and now have kids who are Canadians yet only spent summers here wear Canada on their sleeve. Now they are white so maybe they count more? Despite being born in the US, UK and Australia they still skate, watch hockey, even put maple syrup on their pancakes. Their yearly trips here probably see them pay more taxes than the huge chunk of Canadians (ignoring reasons why whether they be disability or laziness) don't do anything but take from the public purse. Now several have enjoyed cheap University tuition and that bothers me more than evacuating them if their country collapses or is invaded. I mean we took Ukrainians in (and paid for it) and they aren't even Canadians of convenience why wouldn't we pay to take passport holders?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I was eligible for US citizenship (green card at least) through my mother, and began the process to get a green card about 25 years ago, until I found out about the liabilities of dual US citizenship (most notably double taxation) and backed out.

Maybe dual Canadian nationals living outside the country should have to pay a special fee to sort the wheat from the chafe.

Exactly my point. With that double taxation would have come the privilege of maybe someday seeing the USS Gerald R Ford CSG come to Shediac Bay to bail YOU out personally with a red carpet evacuation (should Canada turn to shit one day)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I don't know how Faid and Wei became Canadian but I know my experience abroad is these Canadians of convenience are always blathering about Canada. Certainly my relatives who moved to the US and now have kids who are Canadians yet only spent summers here wear Canada on their sleeve. Now they are white so maybe they count more? Despite being born in the US, UK and Australia they still skate, watch hockey, even put maple syrup on their pancakes. Their yearly trips here probably see them pay more taxes than the huge chunk of Canadians (ignoring reasons why whether they be disability or laziness) don't do anything but take from the public purse. Now several have enjoyed cheap University tuition and that bothers me more than evacuating them if their country collapses or is invaded. I mean we took Ukrainians in (and paid for it) and they aren't even Canadians of convenience why wouldn't we pay to take passport holders?

You're normally smarter than this (descending into race-baiting).

More rationally, I suppose Canadians living in the US are a bit different as they are living in the belly of the nation's historico-cultural existential threat. Saying you're Canadian in the middle of the mass of Americans with whom you otherwise perfectly blend in with is kind of like dyeing your hair purple in high school.

Fadi in Beirut, Wei in Hong Kong or even Werner in Stuttgart or Didier in Toulouse will probably feel less of an urge to do that.

Regarding financial contributions to the Canadian economy, the average Canadian household pays about $40,000 a year in taxes of all kinds. Those Canadians of convenience who come and visit us in the summer are sure having lavish vacations back home if they're topping that amount in a few weeks.

Note that I am still not opposed to the government bringing Canadian citizens resident abroad back home if they're in trouble.