Metro Vancouver Transportation & Transit Plebiscite

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

is there a way for the poll to be open to non-registered members of this site? i think it would be more accurate to see the results if we let guests vote in it. otherwise it will be pretty one sided.

It's going to be one-sided on this site regardless.

[go_leafs_go02]

From what I can see, most of the major news sites, (CBC, CTV, Global, News1130) were in the 25% YES - 75% NO. CBC actually was more of a 40 YES - 55% (they posed the question with a YES / NO / I don't know / I don't care options.

[jlousa]

I will be voting no, and here is why.
I fully support additional money for transit and infrastructure. I can not support the method chosen to raise the funds though. Economically any tax that puts us at a competitive disadvantage is not sound economic practice. While a regional sales tax isn't the worst option, it is avoidable and offers further incentive to the border shoppers which is already a huge drain to the local coffers. Property tax, vehicle levy, hydro levy etc are unavoidable are at least more so, and a much fairer way of collecting funds. And while some will argue that people in Chiliwack get off free, well they also don't really enjoy the benefits of the increased funding.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I will be voting no, and here is why.
I fully support additional money for transit and infrastructure. I can not support the method chosen to raise the funds though.

Unfortunately, a "no" vote won't send that message, it'll simply kibosh any hope of getting any more transit funding in any form for the foreseeable future.

This is one of those times in the political process where you have to hold your nose and go with a solution you don't really like because the only other alternative is worse.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

This is one of those times in the political process where you have to hold your nose and go with a solution you don't really like because the only other alternative is worse.

That describes almost every election I've ever voted in.

[csbvan]

The one big hope for the yes side is the coalition being built to support it. I imagine the 'yes' side will have a large resource advantage.

[Kwik-E-Mart]

In order for the yes side to gain some momentum, it is important to do the following:

1. Given the SkyTrain fiasco, TransLink should keep a low profile. Let the Mayors Council and the yes coalition do the campaigning.

2. This means in the days leading to the referendum and also on the ballot itself, DO NOT use any means to invoke people's memories about TransLink and its services (bus, SkyTrain, SeaBus), such as the yellow, blue, white, and grey colour scheme. A suggestion is using Metro Vancouver's green and blue scheme.

3. Through the media and its own communication channels, reiterate the main goal of improving the overall transportation in the Metro Vancouver region. SkyTrain/LRT sure are the key pieces here, but there should be more efforts in letting the general public know about the roads, bridges, cycling, and other non-transit improvements that are also in the plans. This is a response to misconceptions like "I drive only. Why do I need to pay for transit?" Perhaps there should be area-focused publicity campaigns (Vancouver, Surrey/North Delta/White Rock/Langley, Burnaby/New West, Richmond/Ladner/Tsawwassen, Tri-Cities/Ridge Meadows, North Shore).

[Bcasey25raptor]

I have a feeling this will be a copy of the King County/seattle referendum last april.

http://sfb.nathanpachal.com/2014/11/...n-seattle.html

[st7860]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I have a feeling this will be a copy of the King County/seattle referendum last april.

http://sfb.nathanpachal.com/2014/11/...n-seattle.html

"In Seattle, like most parts of the US, citizens vote for everything. When Americans go to the polls, they are greeted with a booklet"

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by st7860

"In Seattle, like most parts of the US, citizens vote for everything. When Americans go to the polls, they are greeted with a booklet"

When I stated it would be a copy, I mean by results.

It will be rejected with the more urban parts supporting it.

[splashflash]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

When I stated it would be a copy, I mean by results.

It will be rejected with the more urban parts supporting it.

If South of Fraser rejects the question, then thoroughly reform the GVTA, or whatever Kevin Falcon renamed it. New authorities could follow the contours of the referendum results. Assuming the Burrard Peninsula and Tri-Cities vote for the 0.5% PST hike, that region could proceed with the Broadway Line. South of Fraser, likely rejecting the tax increase, could make due with a more economical plan than the unimaginative three light rail lines planned.

I am quite optimistic about the referendum. A more nimble set of institutions could arise from the aftermath. These would allow more creative solutions to be developed instead of foisting capital-intensive projects, especially rail-based ones, on a skeptical public.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by splashflash

I am quite optimistic about the referendum.

If it passes, it'll be the greatest thing to ever happen for public transit in this region. If it fails, it'll be the worst.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by splashflash

I am quite optimistic about the referendum. A more nimble set of institutions could arise from the aftermath. These would allow more creative solutions to be developed instead of foisting capital-intensive projects, especially rail-based ones, on a skeptical public.

Unfortunately you are way to optimistic. I would rate the likelihood of Translink breaking up as a result of a No vote as slim to none (and of course the next question would be would it be good to have Translink break up....another agency, more overhead, more difficulty coordinating stuff...). All a No vote will do is trash service for a MINIMUM of 5-6years. Oh yah, bridges and roads wills still get built so....probably set Metro Vancouver back 15-20years.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I will be voting no, and here is why.
I fully support additional money for transit and infrastructure. I can not support the method chosen to raise the funds though. Economically any tax that puts us at a competitive disadvantage is not sound economic practice. While a regional sales tax isn't the worst option, it is avoidable and offers further incentive to the border shoppers which is already a huge drain to the local coffers. Property tax, vehicle levy, hydro levy etc are unavoidable are at least more so, and a much fairer way of collecting funds. And while some will argue that people in Chiliwack get off free, well they also don't really enjoy the benefits of the increased funding.

That is called cutting off your nose to spite your face. Question, will the damage from a 0.5% sales tax exceed the damage of a No result? Of course not.....so I would say time to hold your nose a bit....There will be no plan B with a better funding model, only Christy saying see Transit is not important.

[a very long weekend]

so, to restore morale a bit, let me give you some context.

here in sf, the original 'government by ballot' constituency, every time that transit funding has come up here, it has passed, even when it required 2/3 majority.

just this last month, two transit funding measures were overwhelmingly approved. across the bay, the voters of alameda county (not only oakland and berkeley but also ghetto towns like hayward and hardcore autoburbs like livermore and fremont), passed a half-cent sales tax increase with 70% in favor.

it's possible.

those internet creeps venting don't represent the majority, which can still be convinced one way or the other.

i think the hst tax isn't a great comparison - the public there was looking to punish the liberals without actually voting them out. this time around, it's a real question of massive transit expansion - a tangible result of increased taxation. if the argument is put right, i'm sure you can get over 50% support.

if people really want to get involved, start making renderings of stations and things and get forwarding them around facebook. get people excited about what they'll get out of it. a half cent really doesn't sound like a lot to most people when they're looking at a nice shiny new train or seabus.

[Xerx]

Are transit agencies down in the states where they have referendums on funding as hated as Translink is here?

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by a very long weekend

so, to restore morale a bit, let me give you some context.

here in sf, the original 'government by ballot' constituency, every time that transit funding has come up here, it has passed, even when it required 2/3 majority.

just this last month, two transit funding measures were overwhelmingly approved. across the bay, the voters of alameda county (not only oakland and berkeley but also ghetto towns like hayward and hardcore autoburbs like livermore and fremont), passed a half-cent sales tax increase with 70% in favor.

it's possible.

those internet creeps venting don't represent the majority, which can still be convinced one way or the other.

i think the hst tax isn't a great comparison - the public there was looking to punish the liberals without actually voting them out. this time around, it's a real question of massive transit expansion - a tangible result of increased taxation. if the argument is put right, i'm sure you can get over 50% support.

if people really want to get involved, start making renderings of stations and things and get forwarding them around facebook. get people excited about what they'll get out of it. a half cent really doesn't sound like a lot to most people when they're looking at a nice shiny new train or seabus.

The thing is that a "no" vote would be similar to how you describe the HST: it won't be a vote against public transportation investment, it will be a vote again Translink. Their public image could literally not get any worse. I don't know how familiar you are with Translink, but it could quite possibly be the most universally hated topic in the region, and I'm not exaggerating. Just bringing up the name makes people angry. I can't get that point across enough. The media has blown their executive's salaries and things like that way out of proportion, to the point that people don't trust them to handle their money. People honestly believe that this tax money will just go to their pockets.

The referendum question includes the fact that this money will be subject to independent audits and the spending will be openly disclosed. Education of that is crucial. I wonder how these people would feel about spending a week in Toronto where every region has a separate transit agency. How convenient.

Also, not sure if you made a typo, but just in case: the tax proposed isn't half a cent, it's half a percent.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by a very long weekend

s
those internet creeps venting don't represent the majority, which can still be convinced one way or the other.

I think we'll find the non-internet using public will be even more anti-tax for transit. It's gonna go down in flames, hard.

The best we can hope for is it somehow leads to a total reshuffling of how we pay for and operate transit and roads in this town.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I will be voting no, and here is why.
I fully support additional money for transit and infrastructure. I can not support the method chosen to raise the funds though. Economically any tax that puts us at a competitive disadvantage is not sound economic practice. While a regional sales tax isn't the worst option, it is avoidable and offers further incentive to the border shoppers which is already a huge drain to the local coffers. Property tax, vehicle levy, hydro levy etc are unavoidable are at least more so, and a much fairer way of collecting funds. And while some will argue that people in Chiliwack get off free, well they also don't really enjoy the benefits of the increased funding.

As they say, the perfect is the enemy of the good. I don't think it's going to get much better.

[WBC]

At this end of the day even though I am very much pro transit I welcome the referendum for one reason. I would like to know whether general public is overall pro or anti transit/environment/green. And we will find out in 6 months or so...

If you look at comments in the news (News 1130, CBC, etc) they are something like 75% anti-transit. However, when we had a municipal vote in Vancouver we had similar situation - if you read comments in public media they were very much anti-Vision. Yet, Vision won. So, lets see what public really thinks. And if referendum fails with large majority voting against it - then so be it...We will live with the consequences as majority wants it that way. But I think it is going to be much closer than people think.