Cycling in Canada

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The problem is every dewy eyed graduate fresh from urban planning school emerges with words "bike lane"...

Again, this is literally not a problem. The idea that anywhere in Canada might possibly somehow have too many bike lanes is utter, ridiculous nonsense. The only place that comes close to having anywhere near enough is Montreal (and maybe Vancouver, from what I've seen and heard).

We're nowhere near having substantial bike lane networks that actually make sense and are integral so that you can safely ride to various points in a city. They are still mostly schizophrenic dribs and drabs, starting here and ending there in willy-nilly fashion.

Yes, when done right bike lanes are masterpieces. We need more bike lanes done right. More importantly, we need more bike lanes period.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Taxpayer pockets are finite. What the author is pointing out is that squandering dollars on a bike lane where there is likely to be minimal use is wasteful.

Bike lanes are actually one of the cheapest forms of transportation infrastructure; far cheaper to build than a road widening or a rapid transit project.

[Daveography]

This is what bothers me about this (neverending) debate on funding bike infrastructure: We build roads designed to handle peak-hour traffic, but nary a peep about how the other 20 hours of the day could get by with roads half the width. We don't think there's any value in a bike lane that costs a fraction of an interchange at the edge of the city, but rarely question the value of said interchange even if it only directly benefits the few that pass through it.

Yet there are documented benefits to building bike infrastructure: It's a cheap way to help manage traffic, it brings more business to areas they touch, but most importantly they save lives, etc.

That last point should stick, because if you're going to argue over a piddly reinvestment of transportation dollars to help save people's lives, then maybe you need to reexamine your priorities and capability for empathy.

[Acajack]

I am a non-lycra cyclist, and my take on bike paths and lanes is this:

- Any opportunity to get away from traffic hazards, either on a distinct MU path separated by a grassy verge or on a wide shoulder lane (even better is separated by a curb-like barrier as in Montreal) is more than welcome.

[GreaterMontréal]

Montreal will spend $15 million in this year to add 57 kilometres of additional bike lanes to its 733-kilometre-long network and maintain what already exists.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...aths-1.3579266

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Bike lanes are actually one of the cheapest forms of transportation infrastructure; far cheaper to build than a road widening or a rapid transit project.

That is irrelevant. Money squandered is money squandered. Some posters seem to be wilfully misinterpreting the article's premise, which is that it's a bad idea to build bike routes in places that don't make sense and/or will never attract more than a fringe audience. His argument is not "Canada doesn't need more bike lanes".

I realize its hard for cycling zealots to accept, but there are many people who have zero interest in getting on a bike and building bike paths in areas where they are unlikely to ever get much useage is a waste.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by whatnext

That is irrelevant. Money squandered is money squandered. Some posters seem to be wilfully misinterpreting the article's premise, which is that it's a bad idea to build bike routes in places that don't make sense and/or will never attract more than a fringe audience. His argument is not "Canada doesn't need more bike lanes".

I realize its hard for cycling zealots to accept, but there are many people who have zero interest in getting on a bike and building bike paths in areas where they are unlikely to ever get much useage is a waste.

The author's point is a red herring. Nitpicking over a few ostensibly "unneeded" bike lanes (a debatable point in and of itself) is irrelevant in the context of a country with the crappiest cycling infrastructure in the first world (save for the notable exception of Montreal).

Your ideological blinders are preventing you from understanding the whole picture. It's fine if lots of people don't want to ride a bike along busy city streets, bike lanes or no. But lots of people do want to, and will if it is safer. The hard evidence is already out there that increasing bicycle use in a city brings exponential benefits in virtually every metric there is, and there are literally no drawbacks to increased bicycle use. Literally: none.

Yes, of course bike lanes need to be done right. The half-hearted way they are done now is frustrating. But these are growing pains. What's critical is that they are being put in, and that more, and more, and more are needed. Only a complete and utter tool like Rob Ford would ever remove a cycling lane in this day and age.

[rousseau]

I found this sign in Gatineau Park so moving that I had to stop and take a photo of it. Not just 1 m, but 1.5 m? That's awesome. And it really does feel like cycling is more than an afterthought or annoyance in the park. Drivers really do give you a lot of respect. More than I've ever experienced anywhere else, anyway.

Well done, Gatineau.



The ride up to the Champlain Lookout is epic. The reward is a great view followed by a fun downhill where you reach speeds of 70+ km/h.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

Nice bike!

I've ridden somewhat recently in Mississauga.....it's okay to ride on if you're on bike lanes, but the drivers have such a shitty mentality. Apparently the city council claims they want to build over 700 km of bike lanes in the city in the next 27 years....they're building 9 km right now. In terms of biking and safety, I'd give them a 3.5/10.

Definitely more enjoyable in my experience to have biked in the rural parts of Ontario. A Skyline bike works perfectly for those country roads, whether is be gravel or pavement. When I do go to St. Mary's, which is twice a year usually, I use the LOOP path system in town, which is a long, and varied set of trails which bring you into and out of town. At this time, I'd give the town a 7/10 for biking infrastructure and safety, the drivers are more cautious.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Again, this is literally not a problem. The idea that anywhere in Canada might possibly somehow have too many bike lanes is utter, ridiculous nonsense. The only place that comes close to having anywhere near enough is Montreal (and maybe Vancouver, from what I've seen and heard).

We're nowhere near having substantial bike lane networks that actually make sense and are integral so that you can safely ride to various points in a city. They are still mostly schizophrenic dribs and drabs, starting here and ending there in willy-nilly fashion.

Yes, when done right bike lanes are masterpieces. We need more bike lanes done right. More importantly, we need more bike lanes period.

In Copenhagen, every street, or 90% at the very least, has a grade-separated bike line separated from traffic by parking. It's amazing. It's tremendous. It's just what 'building a street' means here; it's as uncontroversial as a sidewalk.

It's really, really good, and over half of Copenhageners commute by bike. I didn't realise how used to it I had gotten until I used Bixi in Montreal recently, where streets like Maisonneuve come correct but ones like St-Urbain have lanes that are a matter of mere paint. I might be getting soft but Parc Avenue felt like cycling down the Metropolitan next to commuting here.

This was a specific policy choice, by the way. Until the '80s, Copenhagen was as car-friendly as any conventional capital; Strøget was an artery (and not pedestrianised), and cycling infrastructure was patchy.

1960s Strøget and Nytorv:





Now:





These things are choices. They do not occur just because that's how it is here; people conceived them, argued for them, and pushed them through. It's not a passive thing.

[kool maudit]

Lovely celeste Bianchi, rousseau. Such a classic aesthetic.

[kool maudit]

It might be annoying (I know it's annoying) how I have been favourably comparing my adopted country to my home one on here of late, and believe me, it's not as if everything is better here. At its best, Canada has a vastness and a continental scale that you can just feel, whether you are in the Banff mountains or jostling through King and Bay. Denmark doesn't have that. Neither does Sweden. There is a narrowness to things here.

But Scandinavia does a lot of what Canada does better. It has a lot of what I like about Canada – the livability, the civility, the thoughtful, high-trust public realm – to a greater degree than Canada does.

So I guess what I am saying is that I'll keep doing it.

[niwell]

Cycling in Copenhagen was incredible - we rented bikes for a week and didn't really even have use transit except for getting to and from the airport, and going to Sweden. The only thing I could see getting annoying if I lived there would be how crowded some of the bike lanes get, and consequently how slow going it is. I'm used to biking fast on city streets, and in Toronto sometimes take routes without bike lanes by choice to avoid bicycle congestion (which is a thing now! Night and day from 10 years ago).

[Airboy]

There is a lot of planning that goes into adding to the cycling infrastructure, and some of the choices I don't agree with but the bikeway system in Edmonton is coming along quite nicely. I work beside one of the main routes into downtown and can say is is heavily used not only during the work week but on the weekends as well. The use of the lanes is also increasing in the winter months since the city maintains clearing on them. Any Time I can remove myself from the auto lanes is a benefit to both me and drivers. when I do ride in I have about a 17km ride in from ST Albert. I used to have to take the main road in and would use the service roads or residential streets to avoid the traffic. Now there are easier routes out of North Edmonton that the developers have made. I can take the same amount of time now to ride as I take to drive.

I also like that the city is working with the Mountain Bike community do develop a very extensive trail system in the city.

The rule N+1 for bikes is definite a requirement here.

I'm currently at 5.5.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

1960s Strøget and Nytorv:

I know it's the "before" when cycling infrastructure wasn't good, but this photo could be one in a series attached to an article entitled "Why Morrissey says he can't watch movies made after 1970."

Or it could be the visual proof that Denmark is the Italy of Scandinavia, as you've suggested before.

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Lovely celeste Bianchi, rousseau. Such a classic aesthetic.

Thanks! Italy is everything when it comes to bikes, I believe. Only the pedals, tires and bar tape on this machine aren't Italian. It's not really that old a ride, though: the frame and components are from about fifteen years ago. I think I've worked out the formula that aesthetics plays in my enjoyment of the ride. It's right around 50%.

I like looking at it. I like getting on it. And I'm not above admitting that I like the compliments I get from other cyclists in the know. Though even the uninitiated understand that the colour is unique.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by niwell

Cycling in Copenhagen was incredible - we rented bikes for a week and didn't really even have use transit except for getting to and from the airport, and going to Sweden. The only thing I could see getting annoying if I lived there would be how crowded some of the bike lanes get, and consequently how slow going it is. I'm used to biking fast on city streets, and in Toronto sometimes take routes without bike lanes by choice to avoid bicycle congestion (which is a thing now! Night and day from 10 years ago).

I was just in Montreal, and I found myself passing slower riders a lot in the bike lanes, though not as recklessly as some there do. I haven't been to Copenhagen or Amsterdam, but the videos of cycling infrastructure there that I've seen suggest to me that the laws and regulations for riding are much more rigorously followed, and that one wouldn't, say, jump red lights or take liberties with bike lanes in polite company.

Funny how "Wild West" even Canada is in comparison to Western Europe.

Originally Posted by Airboy

The use of the lanes is also increasing in the winter months since the city maintains clearing on them.

That...is awesome. It's so gratifying to see an attitude shift about the feasibility of cycling in winter.

Originally Posted by Airboy

The rule N+1 for bikes is definite a requirement here.

I'm currently at 5.5.

Uh, how do fractions work with bikes? I'm at 3. One road bike, one town bike with saddlebags for getting groceries, and one mountain bike for bombing around in the snow.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by niwell

The only thing I could see getting annoying if I lived there would be how crowded some of the bike lanes get, and consequently how slow going it is. I'm used to biking fast on city streets, and in Toronto sometimes take routes without bike lanes by choice to avoid bicycle congestion (which is a thing now! Night and day from 10 years ago).

That's the reason I prefer the simple painted lanes to segregated bike lanes - unless they're wide enough to safely pass slower riders.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I found this sign in Gatineau Park so moving that I had to stop and take a photo of it. Not just 1 m, but 1.5 m? That's awesome. And it really does feel like cycling is more than an afterthought or annoyance in the park. Drivers really do give you a lot of respect. More than I've ever experienced anywhere else, anyway.

Well done, Gatineau.

I believe 1.5 m is now the law all over Quebec (since last spring?) for roads where the speed limit is higher than 50 km/h. Gatineau Park is the feds, so they're just complying with the provincial rules of the road.

Motorists have to give bikes 1 m of space on roads where the limit is 50 or less.

[TorontoDrew]

It's only a 1m in Ontario and in the city of Toronto about 95% of drivers don't adhere to that.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That's the reason I prefer the simple painted lanes to segregated bike lanes - unless they're wide enough to safely pass slower riders.

I'm fully on board with the segregated bike lanes, but I understand the frustration. Something like London's cycling superhighway is probably too much to ask for, I imagine.

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