NEW YORK | LaGuardia Airport Redevelopment

[Design-mind]

LaGuardia is in the most need of train link. I find the shuttle buses from there are very unreliable. I have always taken a cab from LaGuardia.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

The extension to Newark Airport was supposed to be $400 from earlier reports then jumped to $1 Billion a few months later. I wonder what happened there...

The PA has the magical ability of taking a project, inflating the budget by an order of magnitude and producing an inferior end result.

[antinimby]

What's more scary is that the MTA actually makes the PA look good.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

The extension to Newark Airport was supposed to be $400 from earlier reports then jumped to $1 Billion a few months later. I wonder what happened there...

well $400 to $1B is a big jump, err, a very big jump, but i think it would be worth it so in this day and age the coolie system does need to be revived.

[Perklol]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

well $400 to $1B is a big jump, err, a very big jump, but i think it would be worth it so in this day and age the coolie system does need to be revived.

I meant $400 million

Originally Posted by Submariner

The PA has the magical ability of taking a project, inflating the budget by an order of magnitude and producing an inferior end result.

Agree. This is another project to add the over-budget and 15 months late list.

[NYguy]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...rom-cuomo.html

NYC Airports Get $500,000 Makeover Contest From Cuomo

By Freeman Klopott and Allyson Versprille
Oct 20, 2014

Governor Andrew Cuomo is holding a competition for plans to upgrade New York City’s two airports, which consistently rank as the worst in the U.S. for design, cleanliness and delays.

Cuomo announced the $500,000 design contest for John F. Kennedy International and LaGuardia airports at a press briefing in Queens with U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, who in February caused a stir when he likened LaGuardia to a facility in a third-world country.

“This is the next phase for New York,” Cuomo said today at Vaughn College of Aeronautics and Technology in Flushing, home of LaGuardia.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs the airports, is allocating $8 billion to construction at the two facilities and Newark-Liberty International over the next 10 years. That includes $2.2 billion as part of a $3.6 billion redesign of LaGuardia’s 50-year-old central terminal, voted America’s dirtiest and most poorly designed by readers of Travel & Leisure magazine in 2012.

Contestants will have to show expanded transportation options, improved amenities and larger footprints for both airports, Cuomo said. The governor also wants to turn Stewart International Airport in Orange County, about 60 miles (97 kilometers) north of Manhattan, into a regional cargo hub to take pressure off JFK. He’s also seeking to further develop 100 acres at Republic Airport on Long Island.

Short-Changed

LaGuardia, JFK and Newark-Liberty in New Jersey served 54 million departing passengers and handled one-third of the nation’s flights last year. They’re also getting short-changed by the U.S. government, ranking in the top 20 for the least federal funding per passenger, according to an August report by the Global Gateway Alliance, which is made up of representatives from the real estate and hotel industries, and labor.

Biden didn’t address the funding inequity, which the Federal Aviation Administration has defended as necessary to keep less-busy airports alive in remote communities. He did offer praise for Cuomo, a fellow Democrat, saying he’s leading the nation with “big ideas.” Biden, considered a potential presidential candidate, also described the need for improvements in U.S. infrastructure to keep the nation competitive.

“I know the history of the journey of this country,” Biden said. “I know when you got big ideas, you got strong leaders, the American people have never, ever, ever, ever, let their country down. Never.”

No Joke

The two joked about Biden’s comment on LaGuardia. In February while in Philadelphia, Biden said that if he blind-folded someone and took them to the airport in Hong Kong, they’d think they were in the U.S.

“If I took them blindfolded and took them to LaGuardia Airport in New York, he would be like, ‘I must be in some third-world country.’ I’m not joking.”

Cuomo, who is seeking re-election next month, said today the comment was “right enough.”

The 56-year-old governor encouraged private-sector designers submitting proposals to the contest to give “the most creative, wildest thinking that you have.”

Rail Access

Cuomo wants the proposals to show LaGuardia with improved rail access and plans for high-speed ferry service from Manhattan. For JFK, he’s seeking a better transportation network and more hotels and dining options. The Port Authority Board of Commissioners will select the best three designs for each airport, with finalists receiving as much as $500,000 to further develop their plans.

Cuomo also wants to include Stewart and Republic airports as part of a program he created last year to establish tax-free zones. The plan is meant to attract businesses to the third-most-populous state, whose upstate region has been hurt by a loss of manufacturing.

On Oct. 7, Cuomo said he wants the legislature to approve an export-import bank that, combined with the tax-free zones, would help New York tap global markets. Improving the airports is key to making it work, Cuomo said today.

“We must modernize our airports if we want to keep our competitive advantage and grow,” Cuomo said.

[Perklol]

I thought bids started several month ago?

[chris08876]

Disregard this.

[RobEss]

Originally Posted by chris08876

$500,000 is not enough for the marble floors that I wan't like they have in European airports.

I've no doubt that $500,000 is going towards continued development of the final 3 proposals and not to the construction of the airport itself.

[chris08876]

Crap, IDK why I thought I read 500 million and I completely read the article wrong. Eh, had a long day, must of hallucinated those three 0's and the message of the article.

Disregard that post. Sleep deprivation sucks sometimes.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

I thought bids started several month ago?

You're talking about something different, the terminal at La Guardia. Cuomo is talking about the airports overall.

Cuomo wants the proposals to show LaGuardia with improved rail access and plans for high-speed ferry service from Manhattan. For JFK, he’s seeking a better transportation network and more hotels and dining options. The Port Authority Board of Commissioners will select the best three designs for each airport, with finalists receiving as much as $500,000 to further develop their plans.

[aquablue]

Let's hope this terminal is something that is worthy of a city like NY. Too many terminals recently in NY and elsewhere are just generic and say nothing about the city. How about something that actually has a NY character and is also grand without breaking the bank? If you look at terminals in Asia, etc, they tend to reflect the spirit of the city far better than most American terminals. The new terminal at LAX and Denver are models to think about.

What I don't want to see is Terminal 4, 5, 8 at JFK replicated at LGA. They are terminals that have no character and could be found anywhere. I'm talking about a twist that just screams NYC -- how about a gothic inspired roof line?

[BBMW]

Someone is thinking waaaay outside of the box on this. Some interesting ideas, but some are just out there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/ny...rt.html?src=me

[N830MH]

I think it will helps to eased the congestions. 4 runways is the right choice and it will be there. They can bring a large aircraft and etc. NYC airspace is very full, but there is no room. They won't have more slots at JFK, LGA, EWR. Due to the congestions. NYC Airports is not good at all. You can't do something. You can't have enough more gate space available. Can they have CBP facility at LGA? Do they need CBP? I think some foreign airlines will moved to LGA instead of JFK. JFK is always delayed all the times. It's very bad out there.

[BBMW]

A lot of the airspace around NYC is restricted, mostly for military use. They need to open this up. They also need to redesign the ATC system to have more capacity.

Another problem is all the crossing runways (along with crossing approaches.) I'd put LGA and JFK only on the 13-31 orientation, which would have the effect of streamlining the approaches and departures. I'd love to do the same for EWR, but that just isn't happening (even in my imagination.)

Originally Posted by N830MH

I think it will helps to eased the congestions. 4 runways is the right choice and it will be there. They can bring a large aircraft and etc. NYC airspace is very full, but there is no room. They won't have more slots at JFK, LGA, EWR. Due to the congestions. NYC Airports is not good at all. You can't do something. You can't have enough more gate space available. Can they have CBP facility at LGA? Do they need CBP? I think some foreign airlines will moved to LGA instead of JFK. JFK is always delayed all the times. It's very bad out there.

[aquablue]

There is plenty of room to grow in NYC before needing a new runway. NextGen ATC system will allow more capacity and reduce delays when ever it's finally done. The regional planning board (RPA) suggested nextgen was needed and could add many more operations per hour by reducing traffic conflicts, etc. Also, larger planes will allow passenger growth. It will be enough to put off runway development for a good while I think because it will allow JFK to be less affected by LGA's operations and allow more movements.

You can't eliminate the crosswind runways (22's) because they are in use much of the time due to wind changes and that would reduce capacity. The wind changes in NYC so that it would be dangerous at times with bad crosswinds.

The proposal to make LGA huge is just idiotic. The fact that it is surrounded by high density areas and the need to move a prison makes it very hard. It would be a NIMBY nightmare. Also, the airspace is very clogged, this will make it more so. I would suggest downsizing LGA and increasing the size of Kennedy and Newark instead. Also very difficult, but more likely than this proposal. Whoever thought of allowing 3 major airports within 15 miles or so was very shortsighted. A two airport solution would be cleaner and more efficient. LGA is not necessarily needed if fast rail is developed linking various places with JFK.

[aquablue]

Originally Posted by N830MH

I think it will helps to eased the congestions. 4 runways is the right choice and it will be there. They can bring a large aircraft and etc. NYC airspace is very full, but there is no room. They won't have more slots at JFK, LGA, EWR. Due to the congestions. NYC Airports is not good at all. You can't do something. You can't have enough more gate space available. Can they have CBP facility at LGA? Do they need CBP? I think some foreign airlines will moved to LGA instead of JFK. JFK is always delayed all the times. It's very bad out there.

I agree. put Rikers in the ocean and then build a new airport in Central Park too for a380 planes too while your at it.

[Perklol]

^^ Agreed.

[aquablue]

Originally Posted by Perklol

^^ Agreed.

Cool, i knew someone else would love smelling jet fuel as they walk down 5th avenue.

[BBMW]

Modern jets can deal with significant crosswind. There are any number of major airports that function very well without crosswind runways (ATL, LAX, LHR, CDG, MUC, SEA, just off the top of my head.) Are the wind issues in NYC significantly different than these cities?

At both JFK and LGA, the crossing runways limit their capacity. And the Runway 4 approach at LGA interferes with Runway 31 departures at JFK. That entanglement needs to be eliminated. If they both went all parallel, they'd have a huge increase in capacity. Also, I wouldn't so much add runways as reorient them. I'd keep LGA two runways, but they'd both be 13-31s (I do have a wacky plan to add a third 13-31 runway, but even I think this is a bit nuts). JFK would have 4 13-31s (two would probably be designated as 12-30.) Whatever slowdowns there might be from crosswind issues, would be much smaller than the gains from being able to use all runways simultaneously. JFK would go from 60 operations an hour to 120. Also JFK could probably keep one crosswinder, and maybe add a second somewhere, if really necessary. And, especially at JFK, closing one of the crosswinders (4L-22R), would open up a lot of ground for remote concourse development.

Originally Posted by aquablue

There is plenty of room to grow in NYC before needing a new runway. NextGen ATC system will allow more capacity and reduce delays when ever it's finally done. The regional planning board (RPA) suggested nextgen was needed and could add many more operations per hour by reducing traffic conflicts, etc. Also, larger planes will allow passenger growth. It will be enough to put off runway development for a good while I think because it will allow JFK to be less affected by LGA's operations and allow more movements.

You can't eliminate the crosswind runways (22's) because they are in use much of the time due to wind changes and that would reduce capacity. The wind changes in NYC so that it would be dangerous at times with bad crosswinds.

The proposal to make LGA huge is just idiotic. The fact that it is surrounded by high density areas and the need to move a prison makes it very hard. It would be a NIMBY nightmare. Also, the airspace is very clogged, this will make it more so. I would suggest downsizing LGA and increasing the size of Kennedy and Newark instead. Also very difficult, but more likely than this proposal. Whoever thought of allowing 3 major airports within 15 miles or so was very shortsighted. A two airport solution would be cleaner and more efficient. LGA is not necessarily needed if fast rail is developed linking various places with JFK.