Jackson Street Entertainment District Thread

[gymratmanaz]

Just thought I would post.... ANY NEWS ON THIS? .... I know times are hard. Was just hoping there might be life here!?!?!?!!!

[glynnjamin]

As far as I know...money has dried up...and JSED is in a holding pattern. Renderings are pretty pointless at this moment. By 2010, the market will start seeing some investors looking to take advantage of cheap land and low interest rates and may actually throw some money this way. It is a shame because all of this land on Jackson was bought by people who are just going to hang on to it. There are many private developers that would have bought one of these warehouses and converted it if not for Sarver and the speculators buying up all of the land south of Jefferson.

My gripe with the city (and state of Arizona) of Phoenix and their relationship with developers has always been that they just let the developer do whatever they want. We still have no construction on the Aloft Hotel after the city "required" them to have started in October. The city doesn't force the development of dirt lots. They don't force anyone to actually do what they say they are going to do. I have emailed Gordon multiple times about this issue. I've encouraged him to tax developers who own dirt lots in the downtown area for not using their land. I've encouraged him to tax Sarver and the rest of the JSED people if they are not going to open their warehouses up for art/retail space. I myself would gladly occupy one of those warehouses with multiple businesses if they were available for cheap rent. It seems to me that, when faced with a 30% land value tax increase vs renting your space for $1-$5 sqft to artists and businesses (even if it is only till the market turns), you would gladly take the rent over the tax.

There is a way to turn this thing around but it needs to come from the government, not the market...Thomas Friedman be damned.

[Classical in Phoenix]

"My gripe with the city (and state of Arizona) of Phoenix and their relationship with developers has always been that they just let the developer do whatever they want. We still have no construction on the Aloft Hotel after the city "required" them to have started in October. The city doesn't force the development of dirt lots. They don't force anyone to actually do what they say they are going to do. I have emailed Gordon multiple times about this issue. I've encouraged him to tax developers who own dirt lots in the downtown area for not using their land. I've encouraged him to tax Sarver and the rest of the JSED people if they are not going to open their warehouses up for art/retail space. I myself would gladly occupy one of those warehouses with multiple businesses if they were available for cheap rent. It seems to me that, when faced with a 30% land value tax increase vs renting your space for $1-$5 sqft to artists and businesses (even if it is only till the market turns), you would gladly take the rent over the tax."

While I am in agreement that undeveloped lots are counterproductive to a vibrant downtown, I do not feel that penalizing the owners of these properties is the answer. Someone may purchase a property with the full intention of developing something, and then, before they are able to get plans and pull permits, get caught in a market similar to the one we are in today. Currently the credit market is VERY tight, getting development money is almost impossible. The owner would be penalized for something that has negatively affected him and is totally out of his control.

[glynnjamin]

^ So that means he should be able to hang on to it and do nothing? Sorry no. This is not an issue of property owners' rights when we are talking about downtown Phoenix. Owners who buy land with the plans to build something but with no real money are called "speculators"...not developers. Sound projects will be built. Poor projects will not. That is the wonderful thing about the market...especially during a recession...it weeds all of the bad "Chateaux on Central"-type projects out.

You miss the point of my legislative idea. If you want to avoid the tax, rent/lease your space out. Something is better than nothing. A developer who owns an empty parcel of land could promote a community garden or drop a temporary structure onto the space and house offices or retail. Making your corner into something positive will have positive effects on 1)your ability to get financing and 2)your ability to flip the project when the market returns.

Case in point, Jackson Street is empty and vacant on non-game nights despite a few bright spots. No one knows that there is anything down there because there really isn't. Go and rent those spaces out for cheap and you'll see more artists, boutiques, and restaurants open up and create a nightlife down there. Then, the banks see Jackson St as a better investment because they know it can support business. This benefits the owner of the space both financially (through the avoidance of a tax and the revenue from rent) and in the long term investment sense.

The idea is to force people to open up. We need more community. The market bubble pushed a lot of the positive development out and away from downtown because prices inflated so quickly. The warehouse district could have been something by itself if JSED hadn't bought it all up and driven up the price of the places that they did not. People need to be forced to think creatively in times like these. Otherwise, nothing gets done and we wait until 2010 or later.

[Classical in Phoenix]

I respect your opinion and you bring up an interesting concept when you mention doing something as simple as a garden of some type on a vacant parcel. As long as you limit it to something as simple as that to avoid taxation, your idea may work.

What I think may be problematic is if you forced everyone to develop their properties at one time or be penalized. What would happen if every vacant property downtown were developed at once? Opportunities for new development, or redevelopment, will become more costly and difficult. Great downtowns develop over time. Because there were large portions of downtown un or underdeveloped, ASU was able to build a campus, U of A was able to bring a med school, the civic center was able to expand and the Sheraton was built. Going a little further back, Chase Field was able to be built. Now with these projects, hopefully there will be a snowball effect and more projects will come on line.

I want a vibrant downtown as much as anybody (REALLY...REALLY...REALLY!). I just don't want to see something that will force the market instead of letting it mature on its own.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by Classical in Phoenix

We still have no construction on the Aloft Hotel after the city "required" them to have started in October.

Actually the time to start construction has not expired. I really don't think they can break the agreement unless a formal amendment to the original agreement is filed.

For this particular project, the developer has until 12/20/2008 to complete construction drawings, satisfy all requirements for issuance of building permits, provide evidence of financing commitments, provide an executed franchise agreement with Starwood Hotels.

Once they had all of that done, either on or before 12/20/08...they then have 90 days to start construction. If we don't see dirt moving by 03/2009 then we should be worried.

[gymratmanaz]

Can we at least get the art movie house?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[glynnjamin]

I stand corrected on the Aloft project. It was my understanding that October was their deadline.

As far as rising cost of development by developing everything at the same time...your examples prove my point, not yours. Taylor Place was dropped in on lots that used to be developed. Chase Field as well. The Cronkite School was a parking lot, ya, but I've seen them tear down far more than build on already vacant lots. Take the Jewel Box, for example, they tore it down to replace the parking lot that Cronkite took over. Even grass would present an improvement over the current dirt lots. The installation of a sprinkler system and some seed would be a small amount of money compared to the proposed tax and would go a long way to improving downtown AND the heat island.

As far as the art movie house thing goes...it shows my point. I've got three people with multiple reel-to-reel projectors who want to drop an art house theater into downtown but cannot afford access to a warehouse. Some couches, bean bags, risers, speakers, and a little carpentry would provide downtown with the makings of a movie theater. After some profits are made, you get a liquor license and turn the place out. Everyone wins.

[Classical in Phoenix]

Okay, I'm on your side now.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by glynnjamin

t. I've got three people with multiple reel-to-reel projectors

You know 3 people w/ 35MM commercial reel to reel projectors- wtf? What the heck do they do with them?

[gymratmanaz]

Each of them also has thirty-three kitty cats..... (kidding)

[glynnjamin]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

You know 3 people w/ 35MM commercial reel to reel projectors- wtf? What the heck do they do with them?

They bought them when a theater closed in Seattle. They rent one of them out and just keep the others around incase something breaks. They bought them to start a theater here but cannot afford warehouse space and redevelopment.

But ya, i know...weird.

[KingLouieLouie76]

I'm bored at the moment, so I decided to google to see if I could come across anything new regarding Jackson Street Entertainment District.

Sure enough I found a new site devoted to this project:
http://www.jacksonstreetphx.com/


I apologize if it has been posted before, but intrigues me.... Especially since we're to believe with the current market conditions that this project is doomed, however, with this new site it leads me to believe that it might be gaining some momentum....

[NIXPHX77]

good find! thanks.
but i think the area planned and shown under "location" is the old one.
didn't the revised planning area send the project to the south,
and not include the Jefferson St parking garage between the ballpark and arena?

[NIXPHX77]

Forwarding...
The Downtown Voices Coalition would like to hear your thoughts and ideas about an application filed for new development in the Jackson Street/Warehouse District area.
Please read the summary (below) and send your thoughts, comments and questions to Steve Weiss, the DVC chair, at steve@nofestivalrequired.com. If possible, send him your thoughts before our next meeting, on Saturday, May 9.

And here's how to read more about the application itself:

On the Downtown Voices Coalition website, right hand column under "Where can I find," there's a link to PUD information & cases:
http://phoenix.gov/planning/pudcases.html
The PUD in question is Z-78-08 (the third one down).
Thanks,
Tim Eigo

Secretary

www.downtownvoices.org
Phone: 602.340.7310
fax: 602.416.7510
cell: 602.908.6991

Downtown Voices Coalition is a coalition of stakeholder organizations that embrace growth in downtown Phoenix, but is mindful that healthy growth should be based upon existing downtown resources -- the vibrancy of neighborhoods, the strength of the arts community, the uniqueness of historic properties, and the wonderful small businesses that dot downtown. All of these assets should be stepping stones to be built upon, rather than shattered in the wake of downtown development.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Jackson Street Entertainment District PUD
*
It was decided at our April meeting to pull together a list of recommendations to present to the developers of the proposed Jackson Street Entertainment District, city officials, and affiliated interest groups. Because the developers have refined their plan, submitted their Planned Urban Development (PUD) proposal to the City, and begun their community outreach, this is the appropriate time to add our collective voice to the discussion.

The suggestion was made to organize our list of recommendations around DVC's ten priority issues. Doing so ensures we "cover all the bases" on all the things we've espoused since our formation in 2004. So please review our ten priority issues below, create a reply e-mail or Word document, and type under each or any heading what you would like to see added to, modified, or deleted from the project. If there are other recommendations you would like included that don't fall under these priority issues, feel free to add them at the bottom. I'll then collect all of your responses, organize them, and present them for group review and approval.

As background material for you:

* More detail about DVC's priority issues:
http://downtownvoices.org/priority-issues/
* Jackson Street Entertainment District PUD application (Z-78-08):
http://phoenix.gov/planning/pudcases.html
* Jackson Street website: http://www.jacksonstreetphx.com/
* Map of Warehouse District Overlay:
http://www.phoenix.gov/planning/zovmap26.pdf
* Slide show of remaining Warehouse District historic/vintage
buildings:
http://downtownvoices.org/2008/08/30...ouse-district/

* You can also do a search within the Downtown Voices website on
"warehouse district" for past news: http://www.downtownvoices.org

DVC Priority Issues:

Affordable Housing:

Arts and Culture:

Coordination of Planning:

Design Guidelines:

Diversity and Cultural Inclusion:

Historic Preservation:

Locally Owned Businesses:

Neighborhoods:

Public Spaces:

Transportation:

[Vicelord John]

I just decided from those renderings.... westgate #2

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

I just decided from those renderings.... westgate #2

Right because this is a bunch of inward facing chain stores surrounded by miles of parking lots.

[AZ KID]

From the AZ Republic....

Jackson Street project is too good to ignore
2 commentsJun. 10, 2009 12:00 AM

Incongruous as it may seem in the current real-estate market, the Jackson Street entertainment district in downtown Phoenix is forging ahead once more.

It has been a tough haul for this plan to dramatically make over the southern side of downtown. But some ideas are just too good to grind to a halt.

In terms of the planning process, the entertainment district at last seems to be on a fast track. The ambitious plan for a mix of nightclubs, restaurants, commercial and residential space, and, perhaps, a boutique hotel on the blocks south of US Airways Center has been slowed by the economy, but is gaining traction again.
We're gratified to see it. Few projects planned for the central city have the possibilities for transforming downtown like Jackson Street does.

The proposal went through a Phoenix Village Planning Committee review earlier this week. Tonight it is scheduled for review by the municipal Planning and Zoning Committee. Unanticipated delays notwithstanding, the entertainment-district plan could go before the full Phoenix council by the first of next month.

In one form or another, the rare combination of gritty, old industrial buildings and sleek, new development has been under consideration for many years. At one time, the proposal included elements on both sides of Jackson Street, north and south.

Now, it is mostly on the southern side, with the height of new construction limited to 140 feet or less.

Like all the ambitious plans to make over downtown, the entertainment district has suffered from financing setbacks in recent months. Along with many other high-profile Phoenix-area projects, the district became entangled in the tragedy-marred collapse of Mortgages Ltd. last year.

Larry Lazarus, a veteran Valley development attorney working on Jackson Street, contends projects like this one are easier to finance in downturns because it is "linear" - a series of low-rising developments that can be financed incrementally, as opposed to an all-or-nothing high-rise.

"This is a brand-new zoning category," said Lazarus. "So any time you do something new, you're a pioneer."

Conceptually, Jackson Street has been an easy sell. Phoenix has a paucity of the sort of funky, old buildings that can be rehabbed into nightclub and restaurant venues. Jackson Street has those. Even now the area is drawing artists' studios and clubs. And it provides sufficient space for complimentary new development.

Jackson Street one day is going to be a major attraction in downtown. The planning process is bringing it that much closer to becoming a reality.

[Vicelord John]

I'll believe it when it happens.

This would be a huge thing for me as it's a 5 minute walk, but I don't believe it will happen.

[gymratmanaz]

Who knows though, with the new 5 restaurants going in, maybe that will help push things along more than before?