Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 66, including 13 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 3

There’s also 2 repositioning flights. A PD to YTZ & a WS to YKF - maybe the latter was a diversion? Toronto got a snowstorm.

Yes, WS544 diverted here yesterday.

[SimpleEng]

EDIT - I moved my post to the Canadian Airport Thread II thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10171165) as it's not technically related to YOW.

[YOWhopeful]

Just returned from Paris today on flight AF328. I asked the flight attendant how full the plane was. She said Business and Premium were full and Economy had just three empty seats. Anecdotal but reassuring nonetheless

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by YOWhopeful

Just returned from Paris today on flight AF328. I asked the flight attendant how full the plane was. She said Business and Premium were full and Economy had just three empty seats. Anecdotal but reassuring nonetheless

Thanks for sharing. Definitely encouraging given the time of year. I think with the upcoming summer travel season, including the Paris olympics and being one more year removed from Covid, this route will continue to see strong LFs despite the drastic increase in capacity. Excited to try out the A350 this summer.

[RomanR27]

Given the Airport Authority projects to get back to pre-Covid numbers this year, in hindsight it's really not that surprising the route is doing so well. The 5x weekly 787 is about the same weekly capacity as the daily LHR flight in 2019, and the daily A350 to CDG this summer is about 100 seats less daily per direction than a daily LHR+FRA on a 763. Kudos to AF for capitalizing on the market.

As an aside, I was looking at YOW-FCO for this fall and was happy to see that AF was not only considerably cheaper than AC through YYZ/YUL, it was actually cheaper than a YOW-CDG nonstop. I've found in the past when looking that AF was more expensive than AC for one-stop routes, so I'm glad to see them more price competitive on these routes. Of course it was just one route on the dates I happened to look at (off peak), but still good to see.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by YOWhopeful

Just returned from Paris today on flight AF328. I asked the flight attendant how full the plane was. She said Business and Premium were full and Economy had just three empty seats. Anecdotal but reassuring nonetheless

My parents were also on AF328 yesterday, lol.

Today’s departure count: 71, including 10 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 4

On a separate note, it’s currently impossible to make a booking on F8’s website since Friday afternoon. I think the end is near for them.

[RomanR27]

Speaking of Air France, it looks like for the winter season beginning October 27 that they will use the 328-seat 777-200. This replaces the previously loaded 787-9, and is still loaded daily.

To recap, AF has:
-Launched in late June 2023 with the 224-seat A330-200, five weekly.
-Upgauged to a 279 seat Boeing 787-9 at the end of October 2023 for the winter season, still 5x weekly.
-Will upgauge again in April 2024 to a 324-seat Airbus A350 for the summer season. From June 14, the route moves to daily.
-From late October 2024, planning a very slight upgauge to a 328-seat Boeing 777-200.

The interesting thing to me is we've pretty much maxed out the AF fleet from an economy perspective. The next leap to be made on AF is a 777-300 that seats 369, but pretty much all that increase is in the premium cabins. There is a super high-density version of the 777-300 that fits 468 but only 14 J seats, and people have reported healthy loads in the premium cabins. Makes me wonder if AF will do something like 10x weekly next summer, adding an A332 or B789 turn a few days a week, plus a daily A350 or B772. Of course, AC may try and re-launch LHR or FRA by then and change the market dynamics a bit.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Speaking of Air France, it looks like for the winter season beginning October 27 that they will use the 328-seat 777-200. This replaces the previously loaded 787-9, and is still loaded daily.

To recap, AF has:
-Launched in late June 2023 with the 224-seat A330-200, five weekly.
-Upgauged to a 279 seat Boeing 787-9 at the end of October 2023 for the winter season, still 5x weekly.
-Will upgauge again in April 2024 to a 324-seat Airbus A350 for the summer season. From June 14, the route moves to daily.
-From late October 2024, planning a very slight upgauge to a 328-seat Boeing 777-200.

The interesting thing to me is we've pretty much maxed out the AF fleet from an economy perspective. The next leap to be made on AF is a 777-300 that seats 369, but pretty much all that increase is in the premium cabins. There is a super high-density version of the 777-300 that fits 468 but only 14 J seats, and people have reported healthy loads in the premium cabins. Makes me wonder if AF will do something like 10x weekly next summer, adding an A332 or B789 turn a few days a week, plus a daily A350 or B772. Of course, AC may try and re-launch LHR or FRA by then and change the market dynamics a bit.

That’s really interesting that next winter will be yet another slight capacity increase. I would have expected a 789 winter, 359 summer split.

Today’s departure count: 78, including 9 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 4

3 of the 4 cancelled have replacement flights so the max total today with no cancellations would have been 79.

Still not possible to book on F8’s website. That’s close to 3 days of practically no new ticket sales.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Speaking of Air France, it looks like for the winter season beginning October 27 that they will use the 328-seat 777-200. This replaces the previously loaded 787-9, and is still loaded daily.

To recap, AF has:
-Launched in late June 2023 with the 224-seat A330-200, five weekly.
-Upgauged to a 279 seat Boeing 787-9 at the end of October 2023 for the winter season, still 5x weekly.
-Will upgauge again in April 2024 to a 324-seat Airbus A350 for the summer season. From June 14, the route moves to daily.
-From late October 2024, planning a very slight upgauge to a 328-seat Boeing 777-200.

The interesting thing to me is we've pretty much maxed out the AF fleet from an economy perspective. The next leap to be made on AF is a 777-300 that seats 369, but pretty much all that increase is in the premium cabins. There is a super high-density version of the 777-300 that fits 468 but only 14 J seats, and people have reported healthy loads in the premium cabins. Makes me wonder if AF will do something like 10x weekly next summer, adding an A332 or B789 turn a few days a week, plus a daily A350 or B772. Of course, AC may try and re-launch LHR or FRA by then and change the market dynamics a bit.

Kudos to AF and YOW Airport Authority for this route. I think AF has basically matched what AC offered pre-pandemic.

AF in June is 324 seats x 7 days = 2,268
AC in peak summer was 7x LHR + 7x FRA at 211 seats (B767) = 2,954

So if the YOW AA is indicating that 2024 traffic will be at or near pre-pandemic numbers, there is still some room to grow for YOW-Europe non-stop... especially in 2025.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Kudos to AF and YOW Airport Authority for this route. I think AF has basically matched what AC offered pre-pandemic.

AF in June is 324 seats x 7 days = 2,268
AC in peak summer was 7x LHR + 7x FRA at 211 seats (B767) = 2,954

So if the YOW AA is indicating that 2024 traffic will be at or near pre-pandemic numbers, there is still some room to grow for YOW-Europe non-stop... especially in 2025.

I can't see 2024 getting much beyond 4.6 million. Much of PD's capacity increases are offsetting all the Flair cutbacks...and that's if they even survive beyond the next couple of weeks. From Jan-March 2025, PD's going to have to backfill for F8's Florida flying next winter. I can't imagine them not adding more YOW-Florida in winter 2024-25, plus LAS.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

On a separate note, it’s currently impossible to make a booking on F8’s website since Friday afternoon. I think the end is near for them.

Flair booking message this morning:

Apologies for the inconvenience.
We are currently experiencing a service interruption. Please check back soon. We look forward to taking you to your next destination.

[YOWflier]

It was my turn to be on AF328 yesterday, lol. This time I was in my normal PE seat and received no offer to upgrade to J at OLCI. At bag drop I asked again and was told that J was full. PE was 1 empty. I got up and walked back to Y once and couldn't see any empty seats, but didn't want to be too creepy about how carefully I looked. Guessing a handful at most, if any.

Noteworthy was that in the premium lineup for boarding, zone 1/2, I noticed a bunch of elite AC elite 50/75K bag tags (this, in addition to my own UA gold ... and it was true on my outbound as well). Ottawa Star FFs prioritizing the TATL and its convenience vs program loyalty is a concern I had but it seems to be happening in sufficient enough numbers to drive the premium cabins.

PE was nice. Good wide seat and great legroom. The space under the seat ahead is totally void allowing you to fully stretch out. There's also a retractable footrest. What's nice here is that the seats recline in place (within the clamshell), so when the pax ahead reclines there's no impact to the space of the seat behind. Actually you don't even know if they're in recline or not. Meal was nice, 3 options, I took the scallops and pasta. Pic below.

We flew a sufficiently northerly route to overfly Greenland, which when skies are clear below (and they were), is always spectacular. Pic below, doesn't do the real thing justice. Sit on the right side to have a chance.

The time it took for the aircraft to dock at the gate, deplane, clear customs (Nexus), wait for checked bag, get a taxi, and arrive in my driveway, took 36 minutes. If I didn't have a checked bag I would've been home in less than 20. This is why I do it, always.

CDG has come a long way. Terminals 2E/F are modern, especially E (main building, K gates, pic below) is fantastic, and notwithstanding the walking (depending on gate) and possible queues, provides a pretty seamless connecting experience. This isn't your parents' CDG from 30 years ago. Arriving from/leaving to Canada there is no further security check, just passport control due to entering/leaving Schengen, and Canadian passports among a few others get to use the automated passport check gates (PARAFE).

[Tesladom]

Thanks for the AF info, I'm have a crappy Economy seat for an upcoming flight to Marseille from YOW in late June, any suggestions on how to get cheap upgrades?

[YOWflier]

If an upgrade is to be had, it'll be offered to you at check-in. Maybe before ... check your booking today to see if anything's being offered. I'm not sure how they calculate the offer cost, but it's probably based on your original ticket cost and how many cabins you're jumping.

Note: if making a paid upgrade at check-in, you'll get bonus miles due to extra spend, but your XP earnings will be based on the original booking class. If you upgrade your ticket before check-in, you'll get the earnings appropriate to the higher fare class.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

PE was nice. Good wide seat and great legroom. The space under the seat ahead is totally void allowing you to fully stretch out. There's also a retractable footrest. What's nice here is that the seats recline in place (within the clamshell), so when the pax ahead reclines there's no impact to the space of the seat behind. Actually you don't even know if they're in recline or not.

Interestingly I was watching a video last night of PE in their A350 and the main complaint was they don't have this clamshell style and the seats recline a fair bit, so if you're not in the bulkhead the person in front of you reclining eats up a fair bit of your space.

[YOWflier]

That’s a definite drawback. A drawback with the clamshell style is that going full recline eats into your legroom and can cause your shins to press against the seat bottom ahead. I’m not that tall and couldn’t go full recline. Also reclining in this seat while belted is a recipe for choking your mid section. You need to release a bunch of slack or unbuckle first before reclining.

[fanofYOW]

I'm happy to hear AF is doing so well in off season. No wonder all these capacity increases are happening less than a year of launch. Maybe instead of AF increases to more than 7x, KLM can have a go at YOW-AMS. AMS does have slot issues but if the company is super confident about YOW maybe they will drop something that isn't doing too hot. YOW CEO did say that if this is a success it will open opportunities with other foreign carriers. Wonder if he had one already in mind or if this was more of a general statement.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I'm happy to hear AF is doing so well in off season. No wonder all these capacity increases are happening less than a year of launch. Maybe instead of AF increases to more than 7x, KLM can have a go at YOW-AMS. AMS does have slot issues but if the company is super confident about YOW maybe they will drop something that isn't doing too hot. YOW CEO did say that if this is a success it will open opportunities with other foreign carriers. Wonder if he had one already in mind or if this was more of a general statement.

Turkish to Istanbul would be an interesting route for YOW with our large Eastern European and Middle Eastern population. It's such an efficient airport for connections.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Turkish to Istanbul would be an interesting route for YOW with our large Eastern European and Middle Eastern population. It's such an efficient airport for connections.

Unfortunately I don’t see them being interested in YOW in the slightest.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Unfortunately I don’t see them being interested in YOW in the slightest.

Yup, which is funny because they used to advertise all over Ottawa including being one of the main logos featured on the ice at the CTC ~10 years ago.