Winnipeg Retail

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Definitely a severe lack of local men's clothing options in Winnipeg, I buy most of mine online. We have like 1 for every age group/type. For younger more casual streetwear you have Livestock on Main. Danali for more business casual. Hanford Drewitt for formalwear. There's a few shops that are unisex but have a very small selection of menswear, Stylebar is one example – they carry one line of men's dress shirts, that's it.

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In terms of major retailers, it's more often a signifier of a city's size than its health.

For example my friend manages at Apple and says they get complaints all the time that they should have a St. Vital location too. However Apple usually only opens a store every 1 million people, at minimum. We actually got one here much earlier than we should have, but because there's likely never going to be one in Saskatchewan, Polo acts as the regional hub. They get people driving in from Sask all the time to have their computers serviced.

He said Microsoft uses the same type of formula but with even higher population requirements, as there's so many shops that can already service their products. Also Best Buy has big MS kiosks in their stores.

^Thank you for sharing that is some interesting insight.

Few questions about this though:

1) When Winnipeg got its Apple Store, there was only one in Ottawa, one in Edmonton, one in Calgary, and two in the greater Vancouver region. Calgary in 2008 had barely just passed a million iirc. Edmonton got one as well because of the West Ed Mall, and the city was less populous in 2008 than Winnipeg is today

In Fact Edmonton got their second Apple store in 2010 and Edmonton was not much larger in 2010 than Winnipeg is today

2) If they only open stores every 1 million people minimum, how does that account for other cities in Canada less than 1 million that have Apple Stores? Do they define it as region based? (i.e. Quebec City, Halifax, London, Kingston-Waterloo all have Apple Stores as well, with Victoria having been rumoured to get one)

Cities like Calgary, Ottawa, Edmonton which are all well under 2 million, have Apples stores 2-3x as large as the one in Winnipeg, and each of these cities has 2 Apple Stores? How would that explain Greater Vancouver has more Apple Stores than Montréal Metro despite being much smaller?

There must be more to it than simply the 1 million population or metro region, because GVA has twice as many stores in that case - a fair bit smaller than Metro Montréal, and Québec as a whole has at least 3 million more people than BC

For example, the landscape in 2009 was a different Apple (iPhone was new and most people still rocked Blackberries, Macs were not as ubiquitous as they are now, no Apple watch or iPad etc)

I always wondered why Winnipeg never got a second Apple Store or at least a larger one at Polo Park when cities that didn't have twice the population would have effectively 6x the retail space, and those are still fair questions to pose to your friend

I can't speak to Ottawa, but I would argue that distance can't play a role because Polo Park and St. Vital are farther away than the 2 apples stores in Calgary and Edmonton are (about 10-15 mins in Calgary, although Edmonton is now closer to 20 mins)

Regardless, thanks for sharing - I just find it curious. There must be more to it than solely size of a city or distance.

[dennis]

1 million in population being the deciding factor in deciding to open a store seems prettying simplistic to me. I would think that they would study the market a little more.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by dennis

1 million in population being the deciding factor in deciding to open a store seems prettying simplistic to me. I would think that they would study the market a little more.

Yeah, these kinds of "rules" sound more like urban myths used to explain why Winnipeg or other places don't have a certain retailer. It was the same thing with IKEA.

There are other cities with fewer than 1 million people with Apple stores... Des Moines, Halifax, Quebec and Waterloo are a few examples. Winnipeg is not some exception.

[buzzg]

I think it’s a guideline, clearly not a hard and fast rule. Also you have to look at the whole metro for a place like Edmonton - significantly larger that the defined city.

As mentioned just like in Winnipeg with Sask next door, I imagine Halifax is the hub for all of the Maritimes.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Biff

Snap Fitness has been struggling for a while. Covid might be the straw that does some of the remaining Snap's in but I doubt they would be long for this world anyways.

Any idea why? I thought they rates were supposed to be pretty reasonable? I have never been to any of their gyms. Just curious as to why they are struggling.

[buzzg]

I’ve been going to Snap for years. It’s certainly cheaper than good life, but Osborne is like the only one that is well maintained and constantly upgrading equipment. Most of them are quite bad. Downtown is nice but so slow they never have enough staff to keep it clean. They really shot themselves in the foot with that location because the change rooms are small and awful, making it extremely unattractive for the office crowd compared to nearby GoodLife and YMCA.

From talking to a few people i work out with at Snap downtown, seems like lots were gonna switch to GoodLife when the new one at 330 Main opens.

[Biff]

I went to Snap for 3 years....loved it. Now I am at GoodLife (my Snap closed).

A friend managed 3 of them and said Snap corporate was a disaster. Always a challenge to get approval for upgrades. Even though they were owner driven, approval was always needed for major upgrades. He also said the inconsistency in quality between locations was a detriment to success. Very little advertising from corporate as well.

Unfortunately I think they have run their course.

[buzzg]

Totally. The thing I really liked about Snap was you get access all over the world, and I travel a fair bit. It was odd though because sometimes (even within Canada) you'd have cities that were saturated with them, and some cities you had none. There's 9 in Winnipeg but only 2 in Toronto and none in Vancouver; had a few in the Phoenix area and none in Boston.

[buzzg]

On my 1km ride to my office today I noticed:

- Robins Donuts on St. Mary’s and Kenny permanently shut down
- Minuk Denture Clinic appears to be closed — all the signs are gone and demo happening inside
- the call centre that’s been at Main & Mayfair for years is gone

Not exactly sure what’s going on with Minuk but the other two closed since COVID. Will be interesting/scary to see what else doesn’t survive.

[laumag]

Originally Posted by buzzg

On my 1km ride to my office today I noticed:

- Robins Donuts on St. Mary’s and Kenny permanently shut down
- Minuk Denture Clinic appears to be closed — all the signs are gone and demo happening inside
- the call centre that’s been at Main & Mayfair for years is gone

Not exactly sure what’s going on with Minuk but the other two closed since COVID. Will be interesting/scary to see what else doesn’t survive.

My husband had an appointment at Minuk's last Wednesday. They are not closed. They are remodeling, which began in January.

[buzzg]

Ah ok, was surprised to see all the signage down.

[esquire]

I saw a post in the Edmonton subforum that said HBC will be closing down the City Centre location later this year. I suspect that the fate of Winnipeg's downtown store is pretty well sealed now.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

I saw a post in the Edmonton subforum that said HBC will be closing down the City Centre location later this year. I suspect that the fate of Winnipeg's downtown store is pretty well sealed now.

It's true and public, was in the news.

It's important to note it's quite a different situation here though compared to Edmonton. Edmonton has 5 locations. They're not in their historic building anymore, and IIRC they don't own the current building either. Believe it or not the downtown Winnipeg location is still profitable.

[esquire]

I hope you're right. But the downtown Edmonton store always seemed busier (not by a lot, mind you) than ours. I know they don't own the building there but at the same time operating a monster like the downtown store here is still very costly.

[buzzg]

It's true, but on top of what I mentioned above, the Edmonton store (168k sqft) was quite a bit smaller than even what the Winnipeg store is currently operating on (~250k sqft, not including storage). If you take out the Edmonton back room/storage space, the actual selling space in the Winnipeg one is likely nearly double, maybe 75% more. I mention this in terms of it feeling less busy: it's way more spread out.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by buzzg

On my 1km ride to my office today I noticed:

- Robins Donuts on St. Mary’s and Kenny permanently shut down
- Minuk Denture Clinic appears to be closed — all the signs are gone and demo happening inside
- the call centre that’s been at Main & Mayfair for years is gone

Not exactly sure what’s going on with Minuk but the other two closed since COVID. Will be interesting/scary to see what else doesn’t survive.

The BAS-TEL newspaper subscription place on Main and Mayfair went away a few years ago (Google maps shows it gone in 2018) and the space was converted into a spa. I'm not sure how busy that spa is as before the Convid-19 I never saw any signs of life at it.

[wags_in_the_peg]

That robins donuts existence has been a surprise for the 15 yrs I’ve lived nearby. Very quite. It would be a great Starbucks location!

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

^Thank you for sharing that is some interesting insight.

Few questions about this though:

1) When Winnipeg got its Apple Store, there was only one in Ottawa, one in Edmonton, one in Calgary, and two in the greater Vancouver region. Calgary in 2008 had barely just passed a million iirc. Edmonton got one as well because of the West Ed Mall, and the city was less populous in 2008 than Winnipeg is today

In Fact Edmonton got their second Apple store in 2010 and Edmonton was not much larger in 2010 than Winnipeg is today

2) If they only open stores every 1 million people minimum, how does that account for other cities in Canada less than 1 million that have Apple Stores? Do they define it as region based? (i.e. Quebec City, Halifax, London, Kingston-Waterloo all have Apple Stores as well, with Victoria having been rumoured to get one)

Cities like Calgary, Ottawa, Edmonton which are all well under 2 million, have Apples stores 2-3x as large as the one in Winnipeg, and each of these cities has 2 Apple Stores? How would that explain Greater Vancouver has more Apple Stores than Montréal Metro despite being much smaller?

There must be more to it than simply the 1 million population or metro region, because GVA has twice as many stores in that case - a fair bit smaller than Metro Montréal, and Québec as a whole has at least 3 million more people than BC

For example, the landscape in 2009 was a different Apple (iPhone was new and most people still rocked Blackberries, Macs were not as ubiquitous as they are now, no Apple watch or iPad etc)

I always wondered why Winnipeg never got a second Apple Store or at least a larger one at Polo Park when cities that didn't have twice the population would have effectively 6x the retail space, and those are still fair questions to pose to your friend

I can't speak to Ottawa, but I would argue that distance can't play a role because Polo Park and St. Vital are farther away than the 2 apples stores in Calgary and Edmonton are (about 10-15 mins in Calgary, although Edmonton is now closer to 20 mins)

Regardless, thanks for sharing - I just find it curious. There must be more to it than solely size of a city or distance.

Average income and average disposable income are more important than the size of the population itself for retailers like Apple.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

That robins donuts existence has been a surprise for the 15 yrs I’ve lived nearby. Very quite. It would be a great Starbucks location!

While Starbucks has closed several locations in the city in the last year or two, that would actually be a fantastic location for one as they have like none in this part of the city. There’s none in St. B, Norwood, Old St. Vital or any of the areas in between, other than the ones in Safeway/Sobey’s. There’s no standalones between Winnipeg Square and almost the perimeter on St. Anne’s, only the mall one on St. Mary’s. Pretty crazy actually.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Average income and average disposable income are more important than the size of the population itself for retailers like Apple.

There are other factors too. In the first 6 or 7 years of the iPhone's existence before Apple really got into the Chinese market, I know that more than a few Chinese-Canadians would sell locally bought iPhones on the grey market to Chinese buyers, i.e. mostly family and friends back home where the iPhone was much more expensive or simply not available. So you'd have these situations where people would go into an Apple store and buy a dozen phones or whatever to ship back home. I knew of a couple people in Winnipeg doing that, and they'd collect a modest fee for each phone. It's easy to imagine a store in a place with a very large Chinese community like Vancouver doing a ton of business that way.